What things in the Catholic/Eastern Orthodox church teachings of TODAY are NOT in the Early Church Fathers' Teachings?

Matt Slick

CARM President
Staff member
What things in the Catholic/Eastern Orthodox church teachings of TODAY are NOT in the Early Church Fathers' Teachings?

I'm developing a list...

i.e.,

Assumption of Mary

got any more...?
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
Also, confession of sins to a Roman Catholic priest; as well as complete submission of ones' will and obedience to the Roman Catholic pope and his teachings; indulgences for time out of purgatory; and fasting from food and drink before taking communion for a time period prescribed by the RCC.
 
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nan

Well-known member
The rosary, holy water, the crucifix, adherence to sacraments for salvation, Peter as the head of Jesus’ church, apostolic succession and, lest we forget, prayers to dead people for their intercession to God.

All this is the result of Rome’s institution of their sacred oral Tradition, which makes true anything they so choose.
 
What things in the Catholic/Eastern Orthodox church teachings of TODAY are NOT in the Early Church Fathers' Teachings?

I'm developing a list...

i.e.,

Assumption of Mary

got any more...?
Belief in the Assumption goes back to apostolic era and it is found in the ancient liturgies of the Church. In Rome the Assumption or Dormitio of the Blessed Virgin Mary appears in the 7th century to have been celebrated for an indefinite period of time. St. John Damascene taught it. It was taught by early church fathers and found in the early liturgies of the Church. The Assumption has been proclaimed by popes, taught by bishops, saints, doctors of the church, contained in liturgies, litanies and processions and became universally practiced long before Pius XII solemnized it
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
Belief in the Assumption goes back to apostolic era and it is found in the ancient liturgies of the Church. In Rome the Assumption or Dormitio of the Blessed Virgin Mary appears in the 7th century to have been celebrated for an indefinite period of time. St. John Damascene taught it. It was taught by early church fathers and found in the early liturgies of the Church. The Assumption has been proclaimed by popes, taught by bishops, saints, doctors of the church, contained in liturgies, litanies and processions and became universally practiced long before Pius XII solemnized it
No, it wasn’t taught by early church fathers.
 

Nondenom40

Active member
Belief in the Assumption goes back to apostolic era and it is found in the ancient liturgies of the Church. In Rome the Assumption or Dormitio of the Blessed Virgin Mary appears in the 7th century to have been celebrated for an indefinite period of time. St. John Damascene taught it. It was taught by early church fathers and found in the early liturgies of the Church. The Assumption has been proclaimed by popes, taught by bishops, saints, doctors of the church, contained in liturgies, litanies and processions and became universally practiced long before Pius XII solemnized it
Belief in the assumption was part of the transitus literature which was forbidden to be read by two popes.

In 494 to 496 A.D. Pope Gelasius issued a decree titled Decretum de Libris Canonicis Ecclesiasticis et Apocryphis. This decree officially set forth the writings which were considered to be canonical and those which were apocryhal and were to be rejected. He gave a list of apocryphal writings and made the following statement regarding them.

"The remaining writings which have been compiled or been recognized by heretics or schismatics the Catholic and Apostolic Roman Church does not in any way receive; of these we have thought it right to cite below some which have been handed down and which are to be avoided by catholics."

In the list of apocryphal writings to be rejected Gelasius identified the following work: Liber qui apellatur Transitus, id est Assumptio Sanctae Mariae, Apocryphus, which is the transitus writing of the assumption of Mary.

This work along with dozens of others were explicitly condemned by Gelasius. Pope Hormisdas around 520A.D. reaffirmed the entire decree and its condemnation.

Holy Scripture Vol 2 pp 248-249 William Webster.
 

Nondenom40

Active member
Also, confession of sins to a Roman Catholic priest; as well as complete submission of ones' will and obedience to the Roman Catholic pope and his teachings; indulgences for time out of purgatory; and fasting from food and drink before taking communion for a time period prescribed by the RCC.
I need to find this but if memory serves, the 3rd council of Toledo 580ish forbid the frequent, private confession to priests. The bishops thought this practice led to a more lax moral lifestyle. So although it was in practice, it wasn't accepted by all.
 

Nondenom40

Active member
What things in the Catholic/Eastern Orthodox church teachings of TODAY are NOT in the Early Church Fathers' Teachings?

I'm developing a list...

i.e.,

Assumption of Mary

got any more...?
Many have already cited a bunch. One or two that may or may not fit your request are icons and relics. In Jeromes letter 51 (written by Epiphaneus) chapter 9 he (Epiphaneus) was walking through a town, saw a little house with a candle in the window. He asked what kind of house this was and someone said a church. He went in to pray and when he walked in he saw a curtain with an image on it of Christ or some saint. He ripped it to shreds. He said it went against all scripture. But he also replaced it, minus the icon.

Also, it seems relics were a thing shortly after the end of the apostolic age. In Polycarp's book the martyrdom of Polycarp, he knew this would happen but he rejected the idea. He said if people grabbed his relics they would worship him more than Jesus. This is the short version.

So, again while it may have been a thing, he himself didn't accept it. And the rcc wasn't even around then but they usurp these ideas and claim them as their own.
 

Bob Carabbio

Active member
Belief in the Assumption goes back to apostolic era and it is found in the ancient liturgies of the Church. In Rome the Assumption or Dormitio of the Blessed Virgin Mary appears in the 7th century to have been celebrated for an indefinite period of time. St. John Damascene taught it. It was taught by early church fathers and found in the early liturgies of the Church. The Assumption has been proclaimed by popes, taught by bishops, saints, doctors of the church, contained in liturgies, litanies and processions and became universally practiced long before Pius XII solemnized it
All that just goes to show you HOW QUICKLY the Visible Church ran off the rails, and into PAGAN FANTASIES after the apostolic age ended. 1 Tim 1:6, 2 Pet 2:1.
 

Bob Carabbio

Active member
I need to find this but if memory serves, the 3rd council of Toledo 580ish forbid the frequent, private confession to priests. The bishops thought this practice led to a more lax moral lifestyle. So although it was in practice, it wasn't accepted by all.
I grew up in Suburban Boston, MA in the '50s, and MOST of the kids my age were Catholic, and illustrated this beautifully. They did what they wanted, sinful or otherwise, during the week, and figured that they'd just have the nice priest "blow it away" for them in the confessional if they did a few "Hail Marys" as "Penance".
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
The rosary, holy water, the crucifix, adherence to sacraments for salvation, Peter as the head of Jesus’ church, apostolic succession and, lest we forget, prayers to dead people for their intercession to God.

All this is the result of Rome’s institution of their sacred oral Tradition, which makes true anything they so choose.
Great answers Nan! And may I also add the Roman Catholic teaching that states that every Roman Catholic priest is "another Christ" (persona Christi). But glory to God because His Word warns us saying: "But as the serpent in his cunning seduced Eve, I am afraid that your thoughts may be corrupted and you may lose your single-hearted devotion to Christ. For if someone comes who proclaims another Jesus, not the Jesus whom we proclaimed, or if you then receive a spirit different from the Spirit already given to you, or a gospel different from the gospel you have already accepted, you manage to put up with that well enough." 2 Cor. 11:4
 
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nan

Well-known member
Belief in the Assumption goes back to apostolic era and it is found in the ancient liturgies of the Church. In Rome the Assumption or Dormitio of the Blessed Virgin Mary appears in the 7th century to have been celebrated for an indefinite period of time. St. John Damascene taught it. It was taught by early church fathers and found in the early liturgies of the Church. The Assumption has been proclaimed by popes, taught by bishops, saints, doctors of the church, contained in liturgies, litanies and processions and became universally practiced long before Pius XII solemnized it
And there is not one iota of evidence that this nonsense was taught by Jesus or His apostles. Even your Church believes that the dogma of her assumption like the Immaculate conception are found nowhere in the scriptures.
 
I never said it was written by him. It was placed on a list of other books forbidden to be read by him. Then later Hormisdas upheld the decree.
Most of what I find on this claim is by anti-Catholic sources, so it is not to be trusted, of course. What I did find from one source was that a book called "The Assumption of Holy Mary" was placed on a list of apocryphal books. This was a condemnation of a particular work that probably contained error. It was not a condemnation of the belief in the Assumption itself.

The Feast of the Assumption has been celebrated in Catholic liturgies from at least 4th century. It has been believed and approved by popes, saints, doctors of the Church and had been made a holy day of obligation even before it was elevated to a solemnly proclaimed dogma by Pius XII.
 

Nondenom40

Active member
Most of what I find on this claim is by anti-Catholic sources, so it is not to be trusted, of course.
Thats called poisoning the well. Its wrong because you don't like the people using the source. Its not an argument nor does it negate what i've written.
The Feast of the Assumption has been celebrated in Catholic liturgies from at least 4th century. It has been believed and approved by popes, saints, doctors of the Church and had been made a holy day of obligation even before it was elevated to a solemnly proclaimed dogma by Pius XII.
So everyone on YOUR side of the tiber accepts it so its legit? I'm sure thats a fallacy too. But 4th century is the 300's. I'd love to see who was writing in a positive way about her assumption. Something not spurious of course. And it was 'solemnly' proclaimed by pius #12 only after he sent a letter out 4 years prior to ask the bishops worldwide if they thought it was a good idea.

Deiparae Virginis Mariae: Should We Define the Assumption? Pope Pius XII - 1946

 

Beloved

New member
(GOTQUESTIONS)
The Roman Catholic Church states that Christians are saved by works ( baptism) and that salvation is maintained by good works (receiving the sacraments, confession of sin to a priest, etc.) The Bible states that Christians are saved by grace through faith, totally apart from works

Ephesians 2:8–9

8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God,
9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
The rosary, holy water, the crucifix, adherence to sacraments for salvation, Peter as the head of Jesus’ church, apostolic succession and, lest we forget, prayers to dead people for their intercession to God.

All this is the result of Rome’s institution of their sacred oral Tradition, which makes true anything they so choose.
Great answers Nan! And may I also add the Roman Catholic teaching that states that every Roman Catholic priest is "another Christ" (persona Christi). But glory to God because His Word warns us saying: "But as the serpent in his cunning seduced Eve,I am afraid that your thoughts may be corrupted and you may lose your single-hearted devotion to Christ. For if someone comes who proclaims another Jesus, not the Jesus whom we proclaimed, or if you then receive a spirit different from the Spirit already given to you, or a gospel different from the gospel you have already accepted, you manage to put up with that well enough." 2 Cor. 11:4
The rosary, holy water, the crucifix, adherence to sacraments for salvation, Peter as the head of Jesus’ church, apostolic succession and, lest we forget, prayers to dead people for their intercession to God.

All this is the result of Rome’s institution of their sacred oral Tradition, which makes true anything they so choose.
Yes, another good point Nan. This is a great example of one of the RCC's oral traditions that they have ramped up to be one of their religions' own Sacred Traditions, making it a dogma of their faith by calling it a "revealed truth" and the RCC solemnly defining it as a formal doctrine that the faithful are obligated to believe, even though it is nowhere to be found in Sacred Scripture.
 

RayneBeau

Well-known member
Most of what I find on this claim is by anti-Catholic sources, so it is not to be trusted, of course. What I did find from one source was that a book called "The Assumption of Holy Mary" was placed on a list of apocryphal books. This was a condemnation of a particular work that probably contained error. It was not a condemnation of the belief in the Assumption itself.

The Feast of the Assumption has been celebrated in Catholic liturgies from at least 4th century. It has been believed and approved by popes, saints, doctors of the Church and had been made a holy day of obligation even before it was elevated to a solemnly proclaimed dogma by Pius XII.
The vast majority of Roman Catholics consider the Assumption of Mary and the Immaculate Conception infallible teachings simply and only because they involve the solemn, full, and universal papal authority which they believe to be infallible, meaning that the Roman Catholic pope is incapable of error when speaking ex cathedra, as he did when he proclaimed these two unfounded, unbiblical titles on Mary.
 
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