What was Jesus’ form before?

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Jesus existed in one form, Philippians 2, vs. 6, but took upon himself another form, vs. 7.
What was Jesus’ form before? If he was literally, actually a man afterward what was he literally, actually before?

Just to clarify our views...

1. What was Jesus' form when he wrestled Jacob?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a glorious body.

2. What was Jesus' form when he was crucified?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a mortal body.

3. What is Jesus' form now?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a glorious body.

Philippians 3:21 NLT... He will take our weak mortal bodies and change them into glorious bodies like his own, using the same power with which he will bring everything under his control.


Here is an overview of what I believe...

(Note: I agree with the view of Melito, Bishop of Sardis around AD 160-180. The following is how I word it.)

For this creation, GOD (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans for his glory where he would reign as a human himself. The Scriptures describe how GOD would accomplish his plan. In an instant, eternal GOD (called God the Father) created the supernatural and spacetime of this universe and also became immanent in the universe as spirit (called the Spirit of God) and as a human with a glorious body (called the Son of God). God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Son of God (whose name is Jesus). But whereas GOD created a spirit and soul for each of us, GOD himself became the spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
Just to clarify our views...
1.
What was Jesus' form when he wrestled Jacob?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a glorious body.
* * *
That is NOT what Philippians says.
NIV Philippians 2:6-11
6 Who, being in very nature [form of] God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;
7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant, being made in human likeness.
8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death— even death on a cross!​
It is here between vs. 8 and vss. 9-11 that everything happened which C.U.L,T.S.-ites can't understand. E.g. "If Jesus was God why didn't He know when He would return?"
9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,
10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth,
11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.​
Vs. 9 is the fulfillment of John 17:5
John 17:5
5 And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.​
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
1. What was Jesus' form when he wrestled Jacob?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a glorious body.
That is NOT what Philippians says.
NIV Philippians 2:6-11

6 Who, being in very nature [form of] God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage;

Actually, Philippians does not mention Jesus wrestling Jacob. Genesis does...

Genesis 32:24,30... And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day... And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.

And Philippians 2:6 says Jesus was in the form (morphe in Greek) of God.


Now...

You have told us what you do NOT believe. Now can you tell us what you DO believe...

1. What was Jesus' form when he wrestled Jacob?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a glorious body.

2. What was Jesus' form when he was crucified?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a mortal body.

3. What is Jesus' form now?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a glorious body.
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
Actually, Philippians does not mention Jesus wrestling Jacob. Genesis does...
Genesis 32:24,30... And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day... And Jacob called the name of the place Peniel: for I have seen God face to face, and my life is preserved.
And Philippians 2:6 says Jesus was in the form (morphe in Greek) of God.
Now...
You have told us what you do NOT believe. Now can you tell us what you DO believe...
1. What was Jesus' form when he wrestled Jacob?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a glorious body.
2. What was Jesus' form when he was crucified?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a mortal body.
3. What is Jesus' form now?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a glorious body.
No. 1 Don't care. No. 2 Don't care. No. 3 Don't care. He was in whatever form suited Him. Which has no bearing on anything related to faith in Him.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
No. 1 Don't care. No. 2 Don't care. No. 3 Don't care. He was in whatever form suited Him. Which has no bearing on anything related to faith in Him.

If YOU don’t care (which probably means you don’t know) what form Jesus was before...

Why do YOU ask others “What was Jesus’ form before?”

I quoted YOUR question to start this thread.
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
If YOU don’t care (which probably means you don’t know) what form Jesus was before...
Why do YOU ask others “What was Jesus’ form before?”
I quoted YOUR question to start this thread.
And how do you think the one sentence you lifted from my post while ignoring the rest of the post changes what in my post?
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
And how do you think the one sentence you lifted from my post while ignoring the rest of the post changes what in my post?

Are you seriously unable to answer the simple questions.

1. What was Jesus' form when he wrestled Jacob?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a glorious body.

2. What was Jesus' form when he was crucified?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a mortal body.

3. What is Jesus' form now?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a glorious body.

Are there ANY Trinitarians on this forum who CAN answer the questions.
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
Actually, Philippians does not mention Jesus wrestling Jacob. Genesis does...

It certainly doesn't say Jesus, whether it's a Christophany is hypothetical. It could have simply been an angel.

1. Assuming it's Christ, a normal human body. If it was glorious I think Jacob would not have dared to wrestle him.

2. An actual tripartite human.

3. A glorified human.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Just to clarify our views...

1. What was Jesus' form when he wrestled Jacob?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a glorious body.

2. What was Jesus' form when he was crucified?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a mortal body.

3. What is Jesus' form now?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a glorious body.

Philippians 3:21 NLT... He will take our weak mortal bodies and change them into glorious bodies like his own, using the same power with which he will bring everything under his control.


Here is an overview of what I believe...

(Note: I agree with the view of Melito, Bishop of Sardis around AD 160-180. The following is how I word it.)

For this creation, GOD (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans for his glory where he would reign as a human himself. The Scriptures describe how GOD would accomplish his plan. In an instant, eternal GOD (called God the Father) created the supernatural and spacetime of this universe and also became immanent in the universe as spirit (called the Spirit of God) and as a human with a glorious body (called the Son of God). God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Son of God (whose name is Jesus). But whereas GOD created a spirit and soul for each of us, GOD himself became the spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
God manifested in a TEMPORARY visible form when wrestling with Jacob. He did NOT manifest AS a MAN.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
2. What was Jesus' form when he was crucified?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a mortal body.
It certainly doesn't say Jesus, whether it's a Christophany is hypothetical. It could have simply been an angel.

1. Assuming it's Christ, a normal human body. If it was glorious I think Jacob would not have dared to wrestle him.

2. An actual tripartite human.

3. A glorified human.

You do not mention two natures.

Was that intentional?
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
If YOU don’t care (which probably means you don’t know) what form Jesus was before...
Why do YOU ask others “What was Jesus’ form before?”
I quoted YOUR question to start this thread.
Rhetorical question introducing my post and I think I answered it in my post.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
I would interpret form as different than nature, however some of these meanings overlap or are debatable.

Philippians 2:6-7... Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Based on the definition of the word “form” in those verses, would you change your original answers to the questions...

1. What was Jesus' form when he wrestled Jacob?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a glorious body.

2. What was Jesus' form when he was crucified?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a mortal body.

3. What is Jesus' form now?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a glorious body.
 
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Yahchristian

Well-known member
You asked what form he was in those particular instances.

So what would be your answers if I modified the questions to this...

1. What was Jesus' form in 20 BC?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a glorious body.

2. What was Jesus' form in AD 20?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a mortal body.

3. What is Jesus' form in AD 40?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a glorious body.
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
Just to clarify our views...

1. What was Jesus' form when he wrestled Jacob?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a glorious body.
No, Jesus, the second of the Godhead was not found in the form of a man at that point.
2. What was Jesus' form when he was crucified?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a mortal body.
I would say Jesus, the second of the Godhead was "incarnated" as a man with a mortal body.
3. What is Jesus' form now?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a glorious body.
I would say Jesus, the second of the Godhead fully God and fully human currently has a glorified human body.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
God manifested in a TEMPORARY visible form when wrestling with Jacob. He did NOT manifest AS a MAN.
True....The Word at that time has not been born of Mary and become flesh.

So how would YOU describe this “TEMPORARY visible form” since you don’t agree with the Bible’s description?

Genesis 32:24... And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
 

CrowCross

Well-known member
So how would YOU describe this “TEMPORARY visible form” since you don’t agree with the Bible’s description?

Genesis 32:24... And Jacob was left alone; and there wrestled a man with him until the breaking of the day.
I would call it a Christophany. Jesus appeared as a man.

Hebrews 13:2 show how supernatural being can appear as human.

In Hosea 12:4 Jacob is said to wrestle with God and is identified as an Angel.
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
So what would be your answers if I modified the questions to this...

1. What was Jesus' form in 20 BC?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a glorious body.

2. What was Jesus' form in AD 20?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a mortal body.

3. What is Jesus' form in AD 40?
I say... GOD manifest as a man with a glorious body.
1. The form of God.

2. A MAN.

3. A glorified MAN AND The form of God.
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
Philippians 2:6-7... Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:

Based on the definition of the word “form” in those verses, would you change your original answers to the questions...

That's not how definitions work. You need the definition to understand the verse, you don't get the definition from the verse, unless the verse says "a form is such and such."
 
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