Rockson
Well-known member
And as everyone can see I didn't put just the words "Is not" in my post as you're repeating me seems to imply.
What would you do if God revealed His plan for your life?
- Thread starter shnarkle
- Start date
Hello Snarkle.
Hope you`ve come back to check to see if any new posters have made statmentt to you question.
I call it the gospel in the old testament. I think it fits the bill.
Read Isaiah 1 to find the terrible condition in Israel at this time.
"Isaiah1:18 Come now, and let us reason together, saith the LORD:
These texts were meant for ISRAEL but He did not address it to them.
"Let us" God is speaking to anyone reading or hearing them, which is all of us today.
""for though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow;
though they be red like crimson, they shall be as wool.
1:19 If ye be willing and obedient, ye shall eat the good of the
land:
Would you not count giving,' willing," a free will?
Willing to do what? Accepting this free gift of salvation!
Obedient to what? The conditions and laws of the covenant you are in.
"1:20 But if ye refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured (eaten up or slain) with the
sword: for the mouth of the LORD hath spoken [it]."
We see here the wrath of God being meted out as justice.
Here, again we see man is given a free will to make a free choice.
Would you be willing to give up a life of sin for the free gift of eternal life?
I know some who would not ,then some who have.
Sorry I am late but just found your site. Good discussion
Will continue with more of the same from the NT
Does this answer your question?
Tony Gee11
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Which man was given the choice to be born? Which of us was given the choice to be male or female? I see quite a few people are are starting to actually make that decision long after they were born. Does that count in your theory?
Getting back to the fact that wolves are not able to become sheep, nor are tares able to will themselves into becoming wheat, it stands to reason that lumps of clay do not have free will either.
It doesn't matter what my will is. What matters is God's sovereign will. Do you think God unrighteous if he fits one vessel for mercy and the other for wrath? Paul clearly states that it is a Given that God is righteous, and yet it is God's decision to make one vessel for mercy and another fitted for destruction.
Either God's will is sovereign or it isn't.
No. The question is: "what would you do if God, without repentance; revealed to you that you were one of these vessels fitted for destruction? Would you live your life any differently, or continue as if you were actually a vessel of mercy?"
This isn't a trick question. It isn't convoluted, or contradictory. Even if you believe God would never do something like this, it is still possible to answer the question I actually asked. If you don't want to, you are free to ignore it, but I will simply return the favor.
The choice in us all is to be born again of Gods Spirit that is not flesh as mortal man.
Doesnt matter in God terms we all are the same in His SPirit.
But the disposition of, spirit of, is the real issue.
God doesnt fit anyone for destruction, that is Pauls opinion as a sinner not of God at all. And that is why I do not follow Paul but the way of Jesus for righteousness.
And either He is in you to walk as He walks in His same light and perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect or you are not.
The problem in most is they are not thorough in repentance and has no intent to receieve from God to be as He is and perfect as He is as He demands of you if you are to be of Him in His same image. .
Bottom line is, either He be in you and you be in Him as one as Jesus was one Him, John 17, and if you have seen Him as He is ye shall be like Him, 1 John 3. There is no in-between, either you are like Him or you are not and you know very well if you are like Him as Jesus was or not.
Hello Shnarkle
I am not trying to hide from a question, coputer problem, just working on a solution you will accept that shows Gods will first.
As the texts in my post #94 show that God was talking to each individual when He said "Come now, Let US (just you & Him)
reason together, saith the Lord, though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson,
they shall be as wool." He is telling you that He has forgiven you and cleansed you from all your sins. He would not do that if
it were not His will. You are now holy and without blame (sin) before Him. (Ephesians 1:4) He now askes, are you willing?
To what? To accept this free gift of salvation
Now God has let you know it is His will that He has given you salvation as a gift , but it is your choice to make.
If you want to accept it or not, or you can refuse and become one of those who are destined for destruction (Death)
Then He adds, obedient, To what? The conditions and laws of the covenant you are in. Didn`t know you were you were
under a covenant? Men have always been under covenants since Adam.
And last, but If you refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword, for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.
Shnarkle, be a wise man and do as I did and accept the free gift of salvation and enter the heavenly Spiritual Kingdom of Gods Rest, which is eternal Life.
We can go to the NT and find things to verify what we found in the OT,
God only created one man. The genealogys show all men were in Adam by creation(women in men)
Try for tomorrow
Tony
I am not trying to hide from a question, coputer problem, just working on a solution you will accept that shows Gods will first.
As the texts in my post #94 show that God was talking to each individual when He said "Come now, Let US (just you & Him)
reason together, saith the Lord, though your sins be as scarlet, they shall be as white as snow; though they be red like crimson,
they shall be as wool." He is telling you that He has forgiven you and cleansed you from all your sins. He would not do that if
it were not His will. You are now holy and without blame (sin) before Him. (Ephesians 1:4) He now askes, are you willing?
To what? To accept this free gift of salvation
Now God has let you know it is His will that He has given you salvation as a gift , but it is your choice to make.
If you want to accept it or not, or you can refuse and become one of those who are destined for destruction (Death)
Then He adds, obedient, To what? The conditions and laws of the covenant you are in. Didn`t know you were you were
under a covenant? Men have always been under covenants since Adam.
And last, but If you refuse and rebel, ye shall be devoured with the sword, for the mouth of the Lord hath spoken it.
Shnarkle, be a wise man and do as I did and accept the free gift of salvation and enter the heavenly Spiritual Kingdom of Gods Rest, which is eternal Life.
We can go to the NT and find things to verify what we found in the OT,
God only created one man. The genealogys show all men were in Adam by creation(women in men)
Try for tomorrow
Tony
This doesn't begin to address my question. You're still ignoring it.
If I assume this is you're answer to the question actually presented in the OP, you're essentially saying that you wouldn't change anything about the way you're living now. Fair enough. This still doesn't tell us anything about why, but it's definitely more than most people are able to post.
ba ......
You seem like a rampant man.
Seeking to displace that which you took but did not want?
Take the blessing and file the curse? .
Seems like you have been here; before.
Hello Shnarkle
After careful study, I believe I have the answer to you question. the clue that gave me the answer were, "without repentance".
It made me think of John, the Baptist advice, Matthew 3:2 "Repent," then Jesus, Matthew 4:17 "Repent". Then Jesus again ,in
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life.
3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not
believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their
deeds were evil.
3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God
For not believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and not accepting the free gift of salvation and eternal life that He gave His Life,
died (in humanity), tasted death (in His divinity) and was resurrected, paying the sin debt for all of humanity.,
the punishment is death.
I accepted Him as my Lord and Savior and chose the eternal life many years ago and have never regretted it.
I hope this is your answer!
Nice meeting you, Shnarkle , Very good question, thank you.
Tony
After careful study, I believe I have the answer to you question. the clue that gave me the answer were, "without repentance".
It made me think of John, the Baptist advice, Matthew 3:2 "Repent," then Jesus, Matthew 4:17 "Repent". Then Jesus again ,in
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life.
3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not
believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their
deeds were evil.
3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God
For not believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and not accepting the free gift of salvation and eternal life that He gave His Life,
died (in humanity), tasted death (in His divinity) and was resurrected, paying the sin debt for all of humanity.,
the punishment is death.
I accepted Him as my Lord and Savior and chose the eternal life many years ago and have never regretted it.
I hope this is your answer!
Nice meeting you, Shnarkle , Very good question, thank you.
Tony
What did John the Baptist say while he was baptizing? "“You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? John 3:7
See how that works? John can see through their fake repentance. God, just like the potter Paul speaks of, takes a lump of clay and creates a vessel fitted for destruction "without repentance". That means he does not repent of what he has done, but instead follows through by using them as the objects of his wrath.
You're not addressing the question presented in the OP. You're terrified and it shows. Most people are incapable of entertaining the idea, much less addressing it or even refuting it. You're arguing with yourself.
What I find amazing is that you can't even be bothered to entertain a hypothetical question that is right out of Paul's letter to the Romans. You can't even address an issue that is part of Paul's own argument defending his doctrine of election.
You just ignore it altogether because you're incapable of strapping on the full armor of God.
Again, if I were to assume that you have answered the question, your answers is simply that you would just pretend that you're saved, and continue on as if nothing had changed. This is perhaps the easiest thing to do to get through one's life; just don't think about it.
Some call it "faking it till you make it". It's living a lie.
Although, I could see this working if one is a legalist, or at the very least someone who actually believes that God's commandments are a benefit and a blessing regardless of who puts them into practice.
Here again, this works only up to a point; the point of salvation. John's words come into play, and can't be ignored.
Fake repentance,
Not sure about that BA ... the text does say "who warned you to flee from the coming wrath".
That is NOT a fake repentance ....... it is more like .... 'I can see this is going to be a problem that I do not want to be a part of'.
'So I'm checking out' .
Your your bolded above ....... most apt.
And .... the pre-functionary response.
Thanks but no thanks, but no thanks .....
I"M OUT OF HERE ......
Not much fake about that ........
I'll be till yesterday.
Now that is a fake repentance.
And Satan is the master such.
bd
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Hello Shnarkle
Here we go again! Not ignoring your wrath,
When I read your question I put myself in that position of a condemned man, my first thought was, " how do I get out of it"?
As a Christian, I turned to the Bible to see if God had any answer how to do that. I used scripture to show what I thought were the answers.
But you did not accept them and then described me as terrified and other unkind names because you said I did not consider other things
which I was not told, such as some potters and Paul hypothetical theory and the vessels of wrath not being able to repent.
You did this without even knowing me, my back ground, my education, years of study, or belief about God the Father and His only Begotten Son.
I`m telling you that you are mistaken about my being afraid and not know things only you seem to know, even though your question
is hypothetical and only my personal reaction to the information of being a vessel of wrath, and fitted for destruction
So I went back to study about potters and their products of mercy and wrath.
You particular concern seem to be the hypothetic, (your designation) account of Pauls description, in Romans 9:18-23 of a potter making
vessels of clay of the same lump, to make one vessel of honour, and one unto dishonour. (vs24)
Will continue under new post, "Potters"
TonyG11
This is an extremely simple question that doesn't require biblical citations, or in depth analysis of Christian doctrine. I'm just asking if you would continue to live as if you were saved, or make any changes after discovering that you were irredeemably damned.
Don't feel bad. Most people have no desire to address this question. It's not the kind of question most would enjoy answering.
Jeremiah points out that "the heart of man is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Who can know it?" God knows it, and anyone he chooses to reveal this existential fact of reality to. Those he reveals this to may be given the gift of repentance, and ultimately there is no point in giving this gift to anyone without first revealing this nightmare. How does one repent of being less than perfect? It's a joke to entertain that nonsense.
Peter accepts the gift while Judas can't bear what he sees within himself.
Another way to look at it is in noting that vessels of mercy are channels of God's mercy while vessels of wrath may very well be channels of God's wrath, or perhaps termination points or dams. Pharaoh manifests wrath. Cain manifests wrath. Esau manifests wrath. Jesus manifests God's wrath in the temple. He also endures God's wrath as well, but he can only do this by voluntarily retaining his sense of self. He preached self denial, but then instead of letting that cup pass, he retains his separate self identity (rather than his identity in the father). This is the only way he could undergo God's wrath, i.e. through complete separation from God.
All are created in God's image which is Christ, and only Christ can see himself in others. Those who cannot see Christ in everyone they meet, have not heard Christ's first instruction to "deny yourself". It is only the self that can suffer damnation, and as long as one retains or grasps their sense of self, they can only look forward to their destiny with fear and trembling. God will never repent of damning those who refuse to let go of their fabricated identities rather than being conformed to the image of his dear son.
Unless you believe that there is no such thing as damnation, and that no one will ever be damned, you are ignoring my question. I can only respond with the same currency.
Go with God. Be blessed.
eternomade
Well-known member
If I knew I was a vessel of wrath, I would live life like the reprobate most likely.
eternomade
Well-known member
Also, knowing I was "unsavable" I would either contemplate suicide or try to make life last as long as possible.
This question of the potter and the clay, making vessels of wrath or vessels of mercy is a great question. It seems identical to goats and sheep.
FWIW, I believe TULIP is Biblical although one poster mentioned it would be hard for Calvinists to answer. I am not sure why. Seems most people have a really hard time answering the question that Paul asked in Romans 8. Shouldn't be hard to answer. I'm not sure there is a right answer either.
I also reject Lordship Salvation in favor of Free and Sovereign Grace. Maybe the Lordship Salvation crowd would have a problem answering this, not sure.
This question of the potter and the clay, making vessels of wrath or vessels of mercy is a great question. It seems identical to goats and sheep.
FWIW, I believe TULIP is Biblical although one poster mentioned it would be hard for Calvinists to answer. I am not sure why. Seems most people have a really hard time answering the question that Paul asked in Romans 8. Shouldn't be hard to answer. I'm not sure there is a right answer either.
I also reject Lordship Salvation in favor of Free and Sovereign Grace. Maybe the Lordship Salvation crowd would have a problem answering this, not sure.
It seems like one would have to. However, I don't think that someone who loves their family would become reprobate. They would necessarily see the benefit to fidelity, loyalty, integrity, etc. I think it's something that one would have to ignore as much as possible. Live in the present moment, cherishing the blessings that God bestows upon the weeds and the flowers alike.