What would you do if God revealed His plan for your life?

shnarkle

Well-known member
God already reveal His plan for my life. I must just keep His 10 Commandments and have the faith of Jesus.
If I assume this is you're answer to the question actually presented in the OP, you're essentially saying that you wouldn't change anything about the way you're living now. Fair enough. This still doesn't tell us anything about why, but it's definitely more than most people are able to post.
 

Slyzr

Well-known member
Which man was given the choice to be born? Which of us was given the choice to be male or female? I see quite a few people are are starting to actually make that decision long after they were born. Does that count in your theory?

Getting back to the fact that wolves are not able to become sheep, nor are tares able to will themselves into becoming wheat, it stands to reason that lumps of clay do not have free will either.

It doesn't matter what my will is. What matters is God's sovereign will. Do you think God unrighteous if he fits one vessel for mercy and the other for wrath? Paul clearly states that it is a Given that God is righteous, and yet it is God's decision to make one vessel for mercy and another fitted for destruction.

Either God's will is sovereign or it isn't.

No. The question is: "what would you do if God, without repentance; revealed to you that you were one of these vessels fitted for destruction? Would you live your life any differently, or continue as if you were actually a vessel of mercy?"

This isn't a trick question. It isn't convoluted, or contradictory. Even if you believe God would never do something like this, it is still possible to answer the question I actually asked. If you don't want to, you are free to ignore it, but I will simply return the favor.

ba ......

You seem like a rampant man.

Seeking to displace that which you took but did not want?

Take the blessing and file the curse? .

Seems like you have been here; before.
 

TonyGee11

New Member
Hello Shnarkle

After careful study, I believe I have the answer to you question. the clue that gave me the answer were, "without repentance".
It made me think of John, the Baptist advice, Matthew 3:2 "Repent," then Jesus, Matthew 4:17 "Repent". Then Jesus again ,in
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but
have everlasting life.
3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
3:18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not
believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
3:19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their
deeds were evil.
3:20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
3:21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God

For not believing on the Lord Jesus Christ and not accepting the free gift of salvation and eternal life that He gave His Life,
died (in humanity), tasted death (in His divinity) and was resurrected, paying the sin debt for all of humanity.,
the punishment is death.

I accepted Him as my Lord and Savior and chose the eternal life many years ago and have never regretted it.
I hope this is your answer!

Nice meeting you, Shnarkle , Very good question, thank you.
Tony
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Hello Shnarkle

After careful study, I believe I have the answer to you question. the clue that gave me the answer were, "without repentance".
What did John the Baptist say while he was baptizing? "“You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? John 3:7

See how that works? John can see through their fake repentance. God, just like the potter Paul speaks of, takes a lump of clay and creates a vessel fitted for destruction "without repentance". That means he does not repent of what he has done, but instead follows through by using them as the objects of his wrath.

You're not addressing the question presented in the OP. You're terrified and it shows. Most people are incapable of entertaining the idea, much less addressing it or even refuting it. You're arguing with yourself.

What I find amazing is that you can't even be bothered to entertain a hypothetical question that is right out of Paul's letter to the Romans. You can't even address an issue that is part of Paul's own argument defending his doctrine of election.

You just ignore it altogether because you're incapable of strapping on the full armor of God.

Again, if I were to assume that you have answered the question, your answers is simply that you would just pretend that you're saved, and continue on as if nothing had changed. This is perhaps the easiest thing to do to get through one's life; just don't think about it.

Some call it "faking it till you make it". It's living a lie.

Although, I could see this working if one is a legalist, or at the very least someone who actually believes that God's commandments are a benefit and a blessing regardless of who puts them into practice.

Here again, this works only up to a point; the point of salvation. John's words come into play, and can't be ignored.


 

Slyzr

Well-known member
What did John the Baptist say while he was baptizing? "“You brood of vipers, who warned you to flee from the coming wrath? John 3:7

See how that works? John can see through their fake repentance. God, just like the potter Paul speaks of, takes a lump of clay and creates a vessel fitted for destruction "without repentance". That means he does not repent of what he has done, but instead follows through by using them as the objects of his wrath.

Fake repentance,

Not sure about that BA ... the text does say "who warned you to flee from the coming wrath".

That is NOT a fake repentance ....... it is more like .... 'I can see this is going to be a problem that I do not want to be a part of'.


'So I'm checking out' .



Your your bolded above ....... most apt.


And .... the pre-functionary response.

Thanks but no thanks, but no thanks .....

I"M OUT OF HERE ......

Not much fake about that ........




I'll be till yesterday.

Now that is a fake repentance.

And Satan is the master such.


bd
 
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TonyGee11

New Member
Which man was given the choice to be born? Which of us was given the choice to be male or female? I see quite a few people are are starting to actually make that decision long after they were born. Does that count in your theory?

Getting back to the fact that wolves are not able to become sheep, nor are tares able to will themselves into becoming wheat, it stands to reason that lumps of clay do not have free will either.

It doesn't matter what my will is. What matters is God's sovereign will. Do you think God unrighteous if he fits one vessel for mercy and the other for wrath? Paul clearly states that it is a Given that God is righteous, and yet it is God's decision to make one vessel for mercy and another fitted for destruction.

Either God's will is sovereign or it isn't.

No. The question is: "what would you do if God, without repentance; revealed to you that you were one of these vessels fitted for destruction? Would you live your life any differently, or continue as if you were actually a vessel of mercy?"

This isn't a trick question. It isn't convoluted, or contradictory. Even if you believe God would never do something like this, it is still possible to answer the question I actually asked. If you don't want to, you are free to ignore it, but I will simply return the favor.
Hello Shnarkle

Here we go again! Not ignoring your wrath,

When I read your question I put myself in that position of a condemned man, my first thought was, " how do I get out of it"?

As a Christian, I turned to the Bible to see if God had any answer how to do that. I used scripture to show what I thought were the answers.

But you did not accept them and then described me as terrified and other unkind names because you said I did not consider other things
which I was not told, such as some potters and Paul hypothetical theory and the vessels of wrath not being able to repent.
You did this without even knowing me, my back ground, my education, years of study, or belief about God the Father and His only Begotten Son.
I`m telling you that you are mistaken about my being afraid and not know things only you seem to know, even though your question
is hypothetical and only my personal reaction to the information of being a vessel of wrath, and fitted for destruction

So I went back to study about potters and their products of mercy and wrath.

You particular concern seem to be the hypothetic, (your designation) account of Pauls description, in Romans 9:18-23 of a potter making
vessels of clay of the same lump, to make one vessel of honour, and one unto dishonour. (vs24)

Will continue under new post, "Potters"

TonyG11
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Hello Shnarkle

Here we go again! Not ignoring your wrath,

When I read your question I put myself in that position of a condemned man, my first thought was, " how do I get out of it"?

As a Christian, I turned to the Bible to see if God had any answer how to do that. I used scripture to show what I thought were the answers.

But you did not accept them and then described me as terrified and other unkind names because you said I did not consider other things
which I was not told, such as some potters and Paul hypothetical theory and the vessels of wrath not being able to repent.
You did this without even knowing me, my back ground, my education, years of study, or belief about God the Father and His only Begotten Son.
I`m telling you that you are mistaken about my being afraid and not know things only you seem to know, even though your question
is hypothetical and only my personal reaction to the information of being a vessel of wrath, and fitted for destruction

So I went back to study about potters and their products of mercy and wrath.

You particular concern seem to be the hypothetic, (your designation) account of Pauls description, in Romans 9:18-23 of a potter making
vessels of clay of the same lump, to make one vessel of honour, and one unto dishonour. (vs24)

Will continue under new post, "Potters"

TonyG11
This is an extremely simple question that doesn't require biblical citations, or in depth analysis of Christian doctrine. I'm just asking if you would continue to live as if you were saved, or make any changes after discovering that you were irredeemably damned.

Don't feel bad. Most people have no desire to address this question. It's not the kind of question most would enjoy answering.

Jeremiah points out that "the heart of man is deceitful above all things and desperately wicked. Who can know it?" God knows it, and anyone he chooses to reveal this existential fact of reality to. Those he reveals this to may be given the gift of repentance, and ultimately there is no point in giving this gift to anyone without first revealing this nightmare. How does one repent of being less than perfect? It's a joke to entertain that nonsense.

Peter accepts the gift while Judas can't bear what he sees within himself.

Another way to look at it is in noting that vessels of mercy are channels of God's mercy while vessels of wrath may very well be channels of God's wrath, or perhaps termination points or dams. Pharaoh manifests wrath. Cain manifests wrath. Esau manifests wrath. Jesus manifests God's wrath in the temple. He also endures God's wrath as well, but he can only do this by voluntarily retaining his sense of self. He preached self denial, but then instead of letting that cup pass, he retains his separate self identity (rather than his identity in the father). This is the only way he could undergo God's wrath, i.e. through complete separation from God.

All are created in God's image which is Christ, and only Christ can see himself in others. Those who cannot see Christ in everyone they meet, have not heard Christ's first instruction to "deny yourself". It is only the self that can suffer damnation, and as long as one retains or grasps their sense of self, they can only look forward to their destiny with fear and trembling. God will never repent of damning those who refuse to let go of their fabricated identities rather than being conformed to the image of his dear son.

Unless you believe that there is no such thing as damnation, and that no one will ever be damned, you are ignoring my question. I can only respond with the same currency.

Go with God. Be blessed.
 

eternomade

Active member
Also, knowing I was "unsavable" I would either contemplate suicide or try to make life last as long as possible.


This question of the potter and the clay, making vessels of wrath or vessels of mercy is a great question. It seems identical to goats and sheep.

FWIW, I believe TULIP is Biblical although one poster mentioned it would be hard for Calvinists to answer. I am not sure why. Seems most people have a really hard time answering the question that Paul asked in Romans 8. Shouldn't be hard to answer. I'm not sure there is a right answer either.

I also reject Lordship Salvation in favor of Free and Sovereign Grace. Maybe the Lordship Salvation crowd would have a problem answering this, not sure.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
If I knew I was a vessel of wrath, I would live life like the reprobate most likely.
It seems like one would have to. However, I don't think that someone who loves their family would become reprobate. They would necessarily see the benefit to fidelity, loyalty, integrity, etc. I think it's something that one would have to ignore as much as possible. Live in the present moment, cherishing the blessings that God bestows upon the weeds and the flowers alike.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Also, knowing I was "unsavable" I would either contemplate suicide or try to make life last as long as possible.


This question of the potter and the clay, making vessels of wrath or vessels of mercy is a great question. It seems identical to goats and sheep.

FWIW, I believe TULIP is Biblical although one poster mentioned it would be hard for Calvinists to answer. I am not sure why. Seems most people have a really hard time answering the question that Paul asked in Romans 8. Shouldn't be hard to answer. I'm not sure there is a right answer either.

I also reject Lordship Salvation in favor of Free and Sovereign Grace. Maybe the Lordship Salvation crowd would have a problem answering this, not sure.
I think that God's free and sovereign grace polishes those vessels of mercy to shine God's mercy while simultaneously preparing those vessels of wrath to eagerly receive it.
 

Hark

Well-known member
While it may be true that goats, swine, and wolves can become lost, the Good Shepherd will not be returning any of them to the sheepfold. No amount of will or effort (Romans 9:16) can change wolves into sheep, or tares into wheat.

Paul asks a hypothetical question in Romans 9 that Christianity is hesitant to look at for any extended length of time. The issue is one of responsibility, and the justice of God. Are those who are fashioned as "vessels fitted for destruction" responsible for their own demise, or were they created that way? Paul poses the question of why would anyone who God damns be responsible for their behavior if God created them that way? The answer from mainstream Christianity seems to be because it's their free will choice to sin. Paul doesn't respond that way though. Instead he acknowledges that the potter has the power to make one lump of clay into a vessel fitted for destruction, and another into a vessel of mercy. He essentially says, "Shut up!" because it is a Given that God is just.

The hypothetical question posed is "What if God, willing to shew his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering the vessels of wrath fitted to destruction: " (vs. 22)

From an intellectual standpoint, this is a difficult issue to deal with. If one were to become acutely aware of this reality in their own life, it would be horrific, to say the least.

My question is what would you do if God, without repentance; revealed to you that you were one of these vessels fitted for destruction? Would you live your life any differently, or continue as if you were actually a vessel of mercy? Some examples of this happening in the bible are Jonah, and Jesus himself. The entire bible if full of draft dodgers who are not interested in God's plan for them.

I am not interested in discussing other scenarios, or any theology that assumes this couldn't or would never happen, or that God is somehow evil for doing something like this. Paul clearly points out that if this were the case, God is still just and righteous.

I'm just interested in finding out what anyone in general, and Christians in particular would do or how they would respond to this revelation from God.

Most Christians have no desire to address, much less answer this question. This is understandable, but it isn't an invitation to highjack the topic so I would really appreciate it if anyone who does decide to answer refrains from claiming this couldn't happen, or God would never do something like this, or bringing up any other topics in this thread.
I did not know I was getting prophetic dreams of the future when I was a tot.

I have a memory but it could be just a dream, but I was with God in Heaven. I loved it there. I wanted to stay. But then I heard my parents and my family all seemingly in grief crying for me to come back. I did not know why they needed me. The Lord showed me the Book of what would happen if I returned to the land of the Living. I was grieved with what I had seen; future sins when I become an adult. I did not want to be separated from the Lord, and the parents & others grieved all the more when they saw I was not wanting to leave the Lord. Then the Lord spoke; I will see what I can do. I was sent back.

Don't know if this event happened right afterwards of that memory or dream or not, but in real life, I had awakened at one time, being choked to death by my own bed sheets. I could not cry out for help and while praying for God to help me, I strained to untie the know around my throat but failed and so I collapsed, giving up. I noticed when my neck muscles relaxed, I could breath still, if not slightly. Then remaining relax, I worked on the know & set myself free to breath more freely. That morning, my mother noticed my eyes were all bloodshot, and called dad over to see, & I had shared what had happened.

Anyway, I have been getting way more prophetic dreams back when I was a tot, and having moved from Iowa to Pennsylvania for the fifth grade, I met the girl in my dreams from when I was a tot around 1997 at a former workplace. For all the oppression and persecution and tribulation I am going through, I would have perished if God had not sent those dreams even prophesying my present tribulations too.

There is nothing to boast about; she was not prophesied to be my wife or anything but to marry another, one divorced from his wife.

I did those stupid future adult sins too. Not talking about it, but the Lord delivered me from it & is keeping me from them, thanks to Jesus Christ.

I still get prophetic dreams warning me of future sins or doing something to my harm.

One good example was I was thinking one night about going jogging in the morning. wearing a mask. I had dreamt that I was in a truck driven by someone else, then in a trailer pulled by that truck, and then the truck slid off the road and into the ditch where the freight in the truck slid up against me, seemingly crushing me in the chest area against the wall of the truck, but not breaking my ribs or anything.. Next morning, as I was still thinking about going jogging with the mask on, I felt led by the dream and the Lord to check something on the internet. I found out that a person can get a collapsed lung jogging or running with a mask on. They could die from it. I jogged without the mask.

I believe Jesus is keeping His words to me that He will not allow me to be separated from Him so I can be of the firstfruits of the resurrection.

I trust Jesus Christ in being my Good Shepherd & Friend because I do not always listen to the warnings in my dreams.

So knowing a revelation or a prophetic dream or nightmare, if we look to our shortcomings, doubts will arisen but when we trust the Lord in regards to the revelations or dreams, we can go forth with His peace when our confidence is in Him in being our Good Shepherd & Friend
 

Hark

Well-known member
This doesn't really have anything to do with the OP. I'm not sure, but there may be a "Testimonials" forum you can post this on.
Sorry for thinking it did.

At any rate, if someone did get a revelation for their life, they still need to rely on Jesus Christ to have confidence in Him in bringing it about.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Sorry for thinking it did.

At any rate, if someone did get a revelation for their life, they still need to rely on Jesus Christ to have confidence in Him in bringing it about.
There have been a few studies done with the elderly where they were presented with the notion of going back 20 or 30 years. They were placed in a resort where everything indicated that they were living in the past. The tv programs were all from the past. The magazines, newspapers, etc. were all from 30 years earlier. The only stipulation required of them was that they were to talk in the present tense with regards to everything that was going on. Two weeks later, the participants all appeared to be younger. They were more vibrant, energetic, and had more flexibility. They didn't just appear younger, they were younger.

Their senses told them that they were living at an earlier date, and their bodies complied with what they saw. No faith, confidence, or beliefs necessary. If you look at the gospels, what you may discover is that everyone believes what they see rather than seeing what they have been taught to believe. This is why they are referred to as "witnesses", and why they can only "confess" what they have seen. Those who are not witnesses, must believe the testimony and then "profess" what they have heard. They are blessed if they can behave as if they have seen the risen Christ, but their blessing doesn't negate this distinction or the reality of the risen Christ.

In other words, the reality of the risen Christ is not dependent upon one's personal faith.
 

Hark

Well-known member
There have been a few studies done with the elderly where they were presented with the notion of going back 20 or 30 years. They were placed in a resort where everything indicated that they were living in the past. The tv programs were all from the past. The magazines, newspapers, etc. were all from 30 years earlier. The only stipulation required of them was that they were to talk in the present tense with regards to everything that was going on. Two weeks later, the participants all appeared to be younger. They were more vibrant, energetic, and had more flexibility. They didn't just appear younger, they were younger.

Their senses told them that they were living at an earlier date, and their bodies complied with what they saw. No faith, confidence, or beliefs necessary. If you look at the gospels, what you may discover is that everyone believes what they see rather than seeing what they have been taught to believe. This is why they are referred to as "witnesses", and why they can only "confess" what they have seen. Those who are not witnesses, must believe the testimony and then "profess" what they have heard. They are blessed if they can behave as if they have seen the risen Christ, but their blessing doesn't negate this distinction or the reality of the risen Christ.

In other words, the reality of the risen Christ is not dependent upon one's personal faith.
Yet they may bear fruit and their joy may be full when their faith is in that reality of the risen Christ helping them to follow Him daily in laying aside every weight & sin.
 
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