What's going on in the Southern Baptist Convention?

[Bonnie]

One correction--the hymn at the end actually has 2 sharps, not 3. Wonder if the praise band could have played it then....

 

[Beloved Daughter]

Sadly, I agree with what you have said, even though I don't know much about the missions monies. I see "contemporary" as "con-TEMPORARY" - who remembers the pop song from 10 years ago? Yet the hymns have shown staying power - not to mention good theology!
I fear we are slipping into the great apostasy...

--Rich

Staying power indeed!

 

[Bonnie]

Humorous, true, and sad all at the same time.

Yes. I went to a Baptist church service back before the lockdown started, to attend a young friend's baptism in that church. She invited me to sit down in the front, near where she would be sitting, along with her friends, near the Baptismal font. She was baptized at the beginning of the service, and that was the last time I heard the word of God preached or anything remotely resembling the Gospel. The pastor quoted briefly from Romans 6 and that was it.

Numerous contemporary "hymns" were sung--one from Bethel, and another from Hillsong--none of which I recognized and none of which was centered on Jesus Christ and what He did for us on the cross, though one came close--it actually had the Doxology in it, which I have been singing since I was 8. I could at least join in. There were 4 songs in a row after the baptism, from the praise band. Most folks stood up while singing and many put their arms in the air....after the beginning of the 3rd song, it dawned on me that I had no idea how many songs were going to be sung, so I sat down. One of the songs was "Season of Jubilee". I wrote down the others on the bulletin, which I kept, but I would need to hunt for it.

The sermon was on Esther, and letting God use us where He plants us. Okay. But nothing about Jesus Christ, the cross, or salvation. Nothing. I heard not one word about the Gospel while I was there. I would have left and gone home early, but I was sitting near my friend, and she would have noticed and wanted to know why. So I stayed.

I cannot tell you how utterly....boring church is, when Jesus Christ isn't there, in word and song. BORING, with a capital "B."

 

[kamaeq]

There is still hope - we attend a SBC church here in NC, and the pastor preaches the Word, sermon after sermon. If he wandered off into "social justice" stuff, we - including his preacher dad - would "have a woid wit' him, ya know?"

And anyway, isn't it a Baptist sport to split off from each other? 🙄 😂

--Rich

Individual churches affiliated with the SBC aren't the core problem, it is the bureaucracy who came to power a few decades ago and have been grasping at all kinds of straws ever since to keep centralizing their power.

 

[T-bird1971]

Individual churches affiliated with the SBC aren't the core problem, it is the bureaucracy who came to power a few decades ago and have been grasping at all kinds of straws ever since to keep centralizing their power.

But individual churches affiliated with the SBC ARE contributing to the continued problem by sending money to the SBC ... I would encourage (and have) any SBC "affiliated" church to completely withdraw their financial support and to openly express WHY they're withdrawing. Stop buying Lifeway training material, stop sending money to the various SBC missions funds and instead directly fund a missionary themselves. There are a number of ways to get the attention of the "Convention", money being the primary one, though I seriously doubt any sort of conservative resurgence will ever occur again.

 

[Beloved Daughter]

There is a publication that I subscribe to that has addressed some of the major issues in the SBC. Today's post brought me to tears. The publication is called 'SBC Voices'. I can't link to it, because that would be breaking the rules, but I urge every one to look it up. Try not to flinch when you read that an SBC leader called a woman who had been sexually assaulted by another SBC leader a 'whore',

Short of an intervention, the SBC is dead, void of any compassion, and the wrong witness to a sick and broken world.

 

[RiJoRi]

There is a publication that I subscribe to that has addressed some of the major issues in the SBC. Today's post brought me to tears. The publication is called 'SBC Voices'. I can't link to it, because that would be breaking the rules, but I urge every one to look it up. Try not to flinch when you read that an SBC leader called a woman who had been sexually assaulted by another SBC leader a 'whore',

Short of an intervention, the SBC is dead, void of any compassion, and the wrong witness to a sick and broken world.

😔 🤒 😢 😭 💔

--Rich

 

[Bonnie]

There is a publication that I subscribe to that has addressed some of the major issues in the SBC. Today's post brought me to tears. The publication is called 'SBC Voices'. I can't link to it, because that would be breaking the rules, but I urge every one to look it up. Try not to flinch when you read that an SBC leader called a woman who had been sexually assaulted by another SBC leader a 'whore',

Short of an intervention, the SBC is dead, void of any compassion, and the wrong witness to a sick and broken world.

What is the name of the article? I found the website but not the article.

 

[Beloved Daughter]

What is the name of the article? I found the website but not the article.

They put out a new article about 3 times per week.

It used to be a blog (which is why I didn't post the link) but it appears that I might be wrong about its status. I'm sure the mods will remove it, if it's a problem.

Russell Moore Letter to SBC President on the Current Crisis in the SBC [Full Text]

May 31, 2021 J.D. Greear President Southern Baptist Convention The Summit Church Durham, North Carolina Dear J.D., As I said to you the other night, you have my prayers as you go into your l…

sbcvoices.com

 

[Bonnie]

They put out a new article about 3 times per week.

It used to be a blog (which is why I didn't post the link) but it appears that I might be wrong about its status. I'm sure the mods will remove it, if it's a problem.

Russell Moore Letter to SBC President on the Current Crisis in the SBC [Full Text]

May 31, 2021 J.D. Greear President Southern Baptist Convention The Summit Church Durham, North Carolina Dear J.D., As I said to you the other night, you have my prayers as you go into your l…

sbcvoices.com

Thanks. Here is the relevant part pertaining to your first post on this:

The defining moment—as it relates to the past year—of that conference was, of course, the conversation that I had with Rachael Denhollander, the Olympic gymnast, attorney, and advocate for survivors of sexual abuse. Rachael told me hours before we were to go on stage that she had spoken with an abuse survivor we both know well, and that the survivor had granted permission for Rachael to mention her story as long as I approved of her doing so. I said that I would not at all censor anything that she had to say. That would have been true about anything, but certainly true about this survivor, a person Maria and I love and have walked alongside as she has experienced not only the sexual abuse of her past, but the disparagement and then bullying and intimidation by the SBC Executive Committee.

This survivor attempted to tell her story of abuse, through the channels of the Executive Committee, and her own words were altered by Executive Committee staff to make it seem as though this horrifying experience had been a consensual affair. I saw, first-hand, the sort of abuse this brought upon this survivor, not only on social media and through calls for her firing from her ministry position but even the word “whore” directed to her in a corridor at the Southern Baptist Convention. We saw the spiritual and psychic damage this did to her. As a matter of fact, at that very National Conference where Rachael addressed the matter, Maria and I and many others were ministering by phone to this mistreated and maligned young woman.

 

[Beloved Daughter]

Thanks. Here is the relevant part pertaining to your first post on this:

It's appalling. They have lost any moral authority they ever had.

 

[Bonnie]

It's appalling. They have lost any moral authority they ever had.

There is a shelter for abused women not too far from us, run by a couple of Baptist churches. My husband, though a Lutheran, is their treasurer and our church has also helped them out on occasion. They do wonderful work and are very conservative. But the past few years, most of the ladies in their shelter have come out of the sex trade, some starting at 18 in so-called "Gentlemen's Clubs." I use the term VERY loosely. They were horribly exploited. Did they sin? Of course. But those that got them involved in the first place have the greater sin, in my opinion. But many have succeeded in leaving their past behind them, realized that they are loved by Jesus Christ and that they can lay their sins at the foot of the cross of Christ for full forgiveness.

For anyone to call such women "whores" is inexcusable. Had my husband been there and heard that, about this redeemed child of God, he would have lit into them like you would NOT believe! In love, of course....

 

[OldShepherd]

Thanks. Here is the relevant part pertaining to your first post on this:

I read thru the article and someone also referred to the woman as "Potiphar's wife."

 

[Beloved Daughter]

There is a shelter for abused women not too far from us, run by a couple of Baptist churches. My husband, though a Lutheran, is their treasurer and our church has also helped them out on occasion. They do wonderful work and are very conservative. But the past few years, most of the ladies in their shelter have come out of the sex trade, some starting at 18 in so-called "Gentlemen's Clubs." I use the term VERY loosely. They were horribly exploited. Did they sin? Of course. But those that got them involved in the first place have the greater sin, in my opinion. But many have succeeded in leaving their past behind them, realized that they are loved by Jesus Christ and that they can lay their sins at the foot of the cross of Christ for full forgiveness.

For anyone to call such women "whores" is inexcusable. Had my husband been there and heard that, about this redeemed child of God, he would have lit into them like you would NOT believe! In love, of course....

I'm sure we'd all intervene to stop such a verbal attack. This next week is the annual SBC Convention in Nashville. I'm sure it will produce fireworks and the gnashing of teeth.

In the last 3 days I've read 8-9 more articles. All blaming each other. The focus is Page Patterson who allegedly covered up a sexual predator. I believe this is true. The name is Darrel Gilyard. Look him up. You can read that he a convicted felon. We know that Patterson was aware of the abuse, but systematically moved Gilyard from one small church to another. Much like the Catholics move Priests. There are two other women who were sexually abused by other SBC officials. One is Christa Brown and the other is Rachael Denhollander.

You can read more of the details in these posts.

SBC Whistleblower Report: Southern Baptist leaders on sexual abuse in their own words

This report and letter were released earlier today by Phillip Bethancourt to confirm the accuracy of events as described in Russell Moore’s letters that were made public last week. Ju…

sbcvoices.com

Boto, Page, Pressler, Patterson, and Mike Stone: The Thread of Resistance to Abuse Response (by Colton Strother)

Yesterday I tweeted a thread on several pieces of Southern Baptist controversy and what the implications are for this year’s SBC Annual Meeting that meets in Nashville next week, June 15-16. …

sbcvoices.com

 

[Beloved Daughter]

I read thru the article and someone also referred to the woman as "Potiphar's wife."

Shameful, yes? It's the attitude that any woman who reports sexual abuse is a liar. Sadly, this is still somewhat prevalent in society at large, but the church as well. To think that Page Patterson wanted to meet one such lady in his office ALONE so he "break her down".

Hold on to your hats!

Paige Patterson - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Bonnie]

I read thru the article and someone also referred to the woman as "Potiphar's wife."

Oh, brother....someone should look those guys in the eye and say something like "let he who is without sin throw the first stone at her...." What a bunch of hypocrites!

 

[Bonnie]

Shameful, yes? It's the attitude that any woman who reports sexual abuse is a liar. Sadly, this is still somewhat prevalent in society at large, but the church as well. To think that Page Patterson wanted to meet one such lady in his office ALONE so he "break her down".

Hold on to your hats!

Paige Patterson - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Sad. Now, about a wife submitting to her husband....my husband once told me that Paul was writing to husbands who were Christians. Submit means yield, not suppress. So, yes, a wife should yield to her husband's loving leadership in a marriage, as he is her head. But NOT if he is abusive and cruel! If he is and refuses to change, he has abandoned his marriage vows and does not love his wife as Christ loves the church. My church frowns on divorce in most instances, but not when the wife's life is in danger from her husband and he refuses to get help or change!

 

[balshan]

Sad. Now, about a wife submitting to her husband....my husband once told me that Paul was writing to husbands who were Christians. Submit means yield, not suppress. So, yes, a wife should yield to her husband's loving leadership in a marriage, as he is her head. But NOT if he is abusive and cruel! If he is and refuses to change, he has abandoned his marriage vows and does not love his wife as Christ loves the church. My church frowns on divorce in most instances, but not when the wife's life is in danger from her husband and he refuses to get help or change!

We had an old pastor friend who lent us tapes, a lot of them by a certain American independent Baptist pastor. I have blanked his name from my mind. Most of what he preached was okay but his message to a woman was disturbing. He said in this preaching he had the woman who was in martial trouble and said are you saved. She said yes. He suggested she commit suicide and give her husband peace. I think it was by jumping of a bridge but not sure. After that I would never have the tapes in our house. I don't know if he was serious but it is just not acceptable in any form, I mean I truly hope he didn't actually mean it.

 

[balshan]

Shameful, yes? It's the attitude that any woman who reports sexual abuse is a liar. Sadly, this is still somewhat prevalent in society at large, but the church as well. To think that Page Patterson wanted to meet one such lady in his office ALONE so he "break her down".

Hold on to your hats!

Paige Patterson - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Jesus treated women with respect and he also allowed Mary to sit at His feet. This speaks loudly because normally that was the place for the men, they women were meant to serve. To me it is hard to understand why women are still suffering when they report abuse. They are hurt by the abuse and then hurt again when they try to report it. It is also unfair to all the men out there who respect women.

 

[Bonnie]

We had an old pastor friend who lent us tapes, a lot of them by a certain American independent Baptist pastor. I have blanked his name from my mind. Most of what he preached was okay but his message to a woman was disturbing. He said in this preaching he had the woman who was in martial trouble and said are you saved. She said yes. He suggested she commit suicide and give her husband peace. I think it was by jumping of a bridge but not sure. After that I would never have the tapes in our house. I don't know if he was serious but it is just not acceptable in any form, I mean I truly hope he didn't actually mean it.

That is absolutely disgraceful! And he was a minister???? Minister of WHAT??? I think if any of our church's ministers ever said that to a parishioner, if it was proven, and he refused to recant, he would be defrocked.