What's reality?

Tercon

Well-known member
Yet ANOTHER question you don't answer.
So you DID answer my question? Show me where.

Just deal with what's be said to you instead of pretending it wasn't said to you. If you are asking me a question, then you just get the ask the question, you don't get to tell me what the answer is too. That's how atheists deal with everything.

Everything is belief based. And if it isn't in the form of a belief, then it has nothing to do with the truth or reality. God tells us to believe for a reason, because He uses belief to do everything He does. God doesn't do things to us, rather He does it with us; He believes with us and that makes us a part of His truth and reality = His Kingdom.
 
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Nouveau

Well-known member
How about in QM, is there anything in and about QM knowable without a believing mind?
No. All knowledge on any subject requires belief. But there are things we can know about in QM where the thing known (as opposed to the knowledge about it) doesn't require a mind in order to exist or occur.

But the important thing here is that you really need to resolve the ambiguity in your premise. It is the primary reason why your arguments here never gain any traction. Look, you can still say the things you want to say. I'm just suggesting that you try saying them more carefully, and in ways that don't lead to people - your readers and yourself - confusing different things together. Wouldn't that be worth at least trying?
 

Woody50

Well-known member
Just deal with what's be said to you instead of pretending it wasn't said to you.
You first.
If you are asking me a question,
I was...hence the question mark. Did you miss that? <--that's another one
then you just get the ask the question, you don't get to tell me what the answer is too. That's how atheists deal with everything.
Do you even answer questions?

Sorry...that was another question you won't answer.

My bad.
 

Tercon

Well-known member

If you really believed that you would not be deceived by this nonsense.

All knowledge on any subject requires belief. But there are things we can know about in QM where the thing known (as opposed to the knowledge about it) doesn't require a mind in order to exist or occur.

Well if there are "things we can know about in QM where the thing known" and "knowledge about it" "doesn't require a mind in order to exist or occur". Explain how and why you KNOW that if QM "doesn't require a mind in order to exist or occur" Newby?

Also, "observation" and "measurement" requires and entails "consciousness" and a believing mind.

But the important thing here is that you really need to resolve the ambiguity in your premise.

There is no ambiguity in the premise, because there is no other way or place outside of a believing mind that the truth and reality can be known to exist. And your inability to show that there is another way or place outside of a believing mind that the truth and reality can be known to exist reinforces the this.

It is the primary reason why your arguments here never gain any traction.
Look, you can still say the things you want to say. I'm just suggesting that you try saying them more carefully, and in ways that don't lead to people - your readers and yourself - confusing different things together. Wouldn't that be worth at least trying?

Why, when what I am saying represents the logical truth and reality. And you can't show otherwise.

This is where YOU stand with the truth and reality: because the truth and reality exists in God's believing mind and you disbelieve God exists, then you don't give credit to and nor are you thankful for in Whom and Where the truth and reality is known to exist. The consequence of your unbelief (atheism) and denial of God's truth and reality leaves you outside of the truth and reality and in the abyss. That's why you think that a believing mind isn't necessary or entailed in all occurrences, mental and physical.
 

Woody50

Well-known member
I did, but you just evaded it.



Yes. But answers don't matter to you, because you are not here to debate, you're just here to build up you hubris.
LOL.

You funny, dude.

Have you ever answered a question here?

That was ANOTHER question.

He won't answer it...
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Epic fail...again.

Answer my questions.
Deal with what's being said to you and stop running away. Everything is belief based. And if it isn't in the form of a belief, then it has nothing to do with the truth or reality. God tells us to believe for a reason, because He uses belief to do everything He does. God doesn't do things to us, rather He does it with us; He believes with us and that makes us a part of His truth and reality = His Kingdom.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
If you really believed that you would not be deceived by this nonsense.
And I'm not deceived by your nonsense.

Well if there are "things we can know about in QM where the thing known" and "knowledge about it" "doesn't require a mind in order to exist or occur". Explain how and why you KNOW that if QM "doesn't require a mind in order to exist or occur" Newby?
That's not what I said at all. Your reading skills are really bad. What I said was that while all knowledge requires a mind, there are things we can know about in QM where the thing known (as opposed to the knowledge about it) doesn't require a mind in order to exist or occur. The thing known does not require a mind, though the knowledge of it does.

There is no ambiguity in the premise, because there is no other way or place outside of a believing mind that the truth and reality can be known to exist. And your inability to show that there is another way or place outside of a believing mind that the truth and reality can be known to exist reinforces the this.
Repeating the ambiguous language isn't dealing with it. A thing is not the same as the knowledge of it, so locating the one is not the same as locating the other. These are therefore two different claims with different meanings, so conflating them together is dishonest and produces ambiguity. Refusing to address this just means you are dooming yourself to further failure.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
And I'm not deceived by your nonsense.

Yes you are; you are self-deceived. I am here showing how and why the truth and reality is known to occur and exist. And you are here demonstrating how and why it isn't by unbelievers. That's all you're doing here silly.

That's not what I said at all. Your reading skills are really bad.

But that's what you said implies. And the problem here isn't my "reading skills", rather it's YOUR believing skills, because belief is necessary in order to make the truth and reality known to everyone including you.

What I said was that while all knowledge requires a mind, there are things we can know about in QM where the thing known (as opposed to the knowledge about it) doesn't require a mind in order to exist or occur. The thing known does not require a mind, though the knowledge of it does.

Utter nonsense and just more evidence that you don't know how and why the truth and reality is known.

If everything that is known to exist including all occurrences requires and entails a believing mind, then everything that exists including all occurrences requires and entails a believing mind in order to exist, because outside or without a believing mind nothing can be known to exist including any occurrence.

And if "all knowledge requires a mind" and QM requires and entails knowledge too, then how is anything known and entailed in QM without a believing mind to make it known and/or to give wave function collapse and entanglement a way and place to occur?

If "the thing known does not require" or entail a believing mind for its existence, then how do you know it exists without YOUR believing mind making it known to exist silly? In reality all knowledge and occurrences require and entails a believing mind to give it a way and place to occur. And that's exactly what QM demonstrates for us, because nothing can be known to occur without a believing mind making it occur and giving it a way and place to occur.

Repeating the ambiguous language isn't dealing with it. A thing is not the same as the knowledge of it, so locating the one is not the same as locating the other. These are therefore two different claims with different meanings, so conflating them together is dishonest and produces ambiguity. Refusing to address this just means you are dooming yourself to further failure.

There is nothing ambiguous as to how and why the truth and reality is known to us. You have to make a deliberate attempt to make the truth and reality unknown to you and that's exactly what you have being demonstrating here for years here.
 

Whateverman

Well-known member
I mean, if I had one guess as to which of this forum's members would be most confused about what reality is...

I suppose I'll let this thread be my answer.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
I mean, if I had one guess as to which of this forum's members would be most confused about what reality is...

I suppose I'll let this thread be my answer.

Evasion.

Actually it is just the implication of your illogical reasoning. Care to answer the questions stemming from your delusional reasoning?

And if "all knowledge requires a mind" and QM requires and entails knowledge too, then how is anything known and entailed in QM without a believing mind to make it known to occur?

If "the thing known does not require" or entail a believing mind for its existence, then how do you know it exists without YOUR believing mind making it known to exist silly?
 

Tercon

Well-known member
No. You stop running.

Answer my questions.

Sure you are.

Deal with what's being said to you and stop running away. Everything is belief based. And if it isn't in the form of a belief, then it has nothing to do with the truth or reality. God tells us to believe for a reason, because He uses belief to do everything He does. God doesn't do things to us, rather He does it with us; He believes with us and that makes us a part of His truth and reality = His Kingdom.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Yes you are...
No, I'm really not deceived by your nonsense.

But that's what you said implies.
No it isn't. And your reading skills are very much a problem.

If everything that is known to exist including all occurrences requires and entails a believing mind...
It doesn't. Starting with a false premise won't get you anywhere.

And if "all knowledge requires a mind" and QM requires and entails knowledge too, then how is anything known and entailed in QM without a believing mind to make it known and/or to give wave function collapse and entanglement a way and place to occur?
QM events do not need to be known in order to occur.

If "the thing known does not require" or entail a believing mind for its existence, then how do you know it exists without YOUR believing mind making it known to exist silly?
The knowledge DOES require a mind. The thing known does not.

In reality all knowledge and occurrences require and entails a believing mind to give it a way and place to occur.
Unsupported nonsense. Not all occurrences need be known in order to occur.

There is nothing ambiguous as to how and why the truth and reality is known to us.
As usual, you misrepresent what was said to be ambiguous, and you refuse to answer my questions on the topic.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Um...I are what?

You cannot and do not answer any question I've posed to you.

You lose.

I answered you question, now deal with what's being said you instead evading.

My answer: Deal with what's being said to you and stop running away. Everything is belief based. And if it isn't in the form of a belief, then it has nothing to do with the truth or reality. God tells us to believe for a reason, because He uses belief to do everything He does. God doesn't do things to us, rather He does it with us; He believes with us and that makes us a part of His truth and reality = His Kingdom.
 
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