What's reality?

Nouveau

Well-known member
I have not seen any physicist including show that "observation", "measurement" or a believing mind isn't necessary and entailed in order for WFC and entanglement to occur. As far as I know all present QM models include as a apart of their methodology "observation" and "measurement" to this day. And you haven't shown otherwise.
Then you haven't been paying attention. Also, that which is required for scientific methodology has no bearing on what is required for QM events to occur. QM events occur all the time, regardless of whether or not there is any scientist observing or measuring them.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Then you haven't been paying attention. Also, that which is required for scientific methodology has no bearing on what is required for QM events to occur. QM events occur all the time, regardless of whether or not there is any scientist observing or measuring them.

I have seen lots of silly people including you pretending that a believing mind isn't necessary in order for events to be known to occur, but I have never seen anyone including you that can actually demonstrate this in reality.

Why don't you tell us about the "QM events" that "occur all the time" silly?
 

Nouveau

Well-known member

Tercon

Well-known member
No you haven't. No-one here has ever told you that.

Sure you have, you and Carroll are doing just that when you pretend that there is no need of "consciousness" or a believing mind to know anything to exist or occur. The truth, reality and all its occurrence is the product of "consciousness" and you can't show otherwise. You are even silly enough to pretend you aren't trying to do just that by diminishing belief's role in the truth and reality, when all you are doing is projecting your silly atheism (unbelief) onto everything.

All I seen was things made possible by a conscious mind and nothing that didn't require or entail consciousness in order to be known to occur silly.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Sure you have, you and Carroll are doing just that when you pretend that there is no need of "consciousness" or a believing mind to know anything to exist or occur. The truth, reality and all its occurrence is the product of "consciousness" and you can't show otherwise. You are even silly enough to pretend you aren't trying to do just that by diminishing belief's role in the truth and reality, when all you are doing is projecting your silly atheism (unbelief) onto everything.

All I seen was things made possible by a conscious mind and nothing that didn't require or entail consciousness in order to be known to occur silly.
You're strawmanning. No-one has ever told you that a believing mind is not needed for knowledge. We are rather telling you that a mind is not required for QM events to occur. And I just gave you examples of quantum events that occur without any mind having to observe them. Quantum technologies like the quantum compass would not work without quantum events occurring, yet these technologies do still work without anyone having to actually observe those events as they occur, just as your computer works even when you're not observing the transfer of electrons through the CPU.
 

Woody50

Well-known member
It's mine
And it's already failing. Do you even know what you're talking about?

Nope.

You just bloviate and ignore. It's called "pulling a Tercon" now.
and your opinion as to what my first principle matters not,
Not an opinion. You don't understand philosophy 101, dude. Are you even old enough to have taken this course??? Nope.
because it is mine and not yours.
MY TOYS! MINE!!!!
Understand?
Nope. Truly, you have a dizzying intellect...
Now deal what has been said to you instead of pretending it hasn't been said.
Wow. That was a HUGE whine.
Like I said, you seem to have pick up some of the atheist discussion tactics.
Just answer my question from eons ago, deflector and awful debator.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
And it's already failing. Do you even know what you're talking about?

Nope.

You just bloviate and ignore. It's called "pulling a Tercon" now.

Do you? You reason and sound like an atheist rather than a believer.

Not an opinion. You don't understand philosophy 101, dude. Are you even old enough to have taken this course??? Nope. MY TOYS! MINE!!!!
That's not a first principle.
Sure it is, as your opinion of my first principle doesn't have anything to do with if you approve of it or not silly. It's mine. So, if you don't share it then you need to show how and why it isn't true. And if you can't, then you can keep whining like a spoiled kid.

Nope. Truly, you have a dizzying intellect...

Wow. That was a HUGE whine.

Just answer my question from eons ago, deflector and awful debator.

Stop being such a bluff and deal with what's be said to you and show me some of YOUR "dizzying intellect".

My answer:
Everything is belief based. And if it isn't in the form of a belief, then it has nothing to do with the truth or reality. God tells us to believe for a reason, because He uses belief to do everything He does. God doesn't do things to us, rather He does it with us; He believes with us and that makes us a part of His truth and reality = His Kingdom.
 

Woody50

Well-known member
Do you? You reason and sound like an atheist rather than a believer.
Oh? How so? Because we both show you your own illogic and self-centeredness?
Sure it is
THAT is your answer? Typical...
Stop being such a bluff and deal with what's be said to you and show me some of YOUR "dizzying intellect"
Simple. Answer questions. You cannot or will not. I don't care, you just bloviate and ignore the fawlty towers that you've built.

What are you...16?
My answer:
Everything is belief based.
That doesn't pass the first principle test. Do you make the sun come up because of belief?

Nope.

Your first principle fails. So nobody should believe a word you say. Ever.

C'mon. Philosophy 101. Take the course and learn. OR...just read the Bible.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Oh? How so? Because we both show you your own illogic and self-centeredness?

No, it is because you're both illogical and arrogant. And you projection that unto everyone except where it rightly belongs.

THAT is your answer? Typical...

Sure, because neither of you has refuted what I said yet.

Simple. Answer questions. You cannot or will not. I don't care, you just bloviate and ignore the fawlty towers that you've built.

I do. And of course you don't care about the truth or reality, because the truth about the only way and place that either is known to you is lost on you as well.

What are you...16?

No. But I know a 16 year old who knows better than you do.

That doesn't pass the first principle test.

Your opinion as to my first principle is irrelevant, because it is mine remember silly.

Do you make the sun come up because of belief?

No, but because of a Our believing minds I get to know what it is and witness God's glory in it. God creates in and with His believing mind and believers are just along for the ride. For now anyway.

Nope.

Your first principle fails. So nobody should believe a word you say. Ever.

Why would they do a silly thing like that, when you have not shown what I said to be false or illogical, so they can be just as silly as you?

C'mon. Philosophy 101. Take the course and learn. OR...just read the Bible.

I have studied both logic and the Bible for many years. But if you have something true to say beside all the hubris and hate, then say it.
 

Woody50

Well-known member
No, it is because you're both illogical and arrogant.
Evidence?
And you projection that unto everyone except where it rightly belongs.
"You projection?" English, Stanley...English.
Sure, because neither of you has refuted what I said yet.
It's called a rebuttal.

Either of whom? You have MPD?
I do. And of course you don't care about the truth or reality, because the truth about the only way and place that either is known to you is lost on you as well.
Fawlty Towers??? You didn't even get that?

You're such a kid...

That was funny.
No. But I know a 16 year old who knows better than you do.
Introduce me to this 16 year old. Sounds wiser than you.
Your opinion as to my first principle is irrelevant, because it is mine remember silly.
Again. Do you even KNOW what the First Principle is? Read Plato to start (I know, you've not read anything aside from "Divergent," so I understand.).
Why would they do a silly thing like that, when you have not shown what I said to be false or illogical, so they can be just as silly as you?
LOL. Keep talking, Turk.
I have studied both logic and the Bible for many years.
Study more, then. You suck at this.
But if you have something true to say beside all the hubris and hate, then say it.
You whine like a mule. Grow up and learn, Turk.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
I have studied both logic and the Bible for many years.
Well, half of that might be true. We both know you've never studied logic.

You do realize that Woody is just trolling you, right? (See his post below for proof.)
 
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Tercon

Well-known member
Well, half of that might be true. We both know you've never studied logic.

You do realize that Woody is just trolling you, right? (See his post below for proof.)

I can't help it if you're so deluded by your ignorant unbelief that you don't recognize logic.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Evidence?

The Reader is welcome to go back over your posting history and get all the "evidence" they need.

"You projection?" English, Stanley...English.

Read for comprehension Hardy.

It's called a rebuttal.

No, that's called delusional.

Either of whom? You have MPD?

You're posting beyond your pay grade silly. Stick to the name calling.

Fawlty Towers??? You didn't even get that? You're such a kid...

I don't share anything with you; including your silly sense of humor.

That was funny.

Introduce me to this 16 year old.

What for, she has been taught to run when she encounters people like you.

Sounds wiser than you.

She's smart enough to avoid people like you.

Again. Do you even KNOW what the First Principle is? Read Plato to start (I know, you've not read anything aside from "Divergent," so I understand.).

Evasion.

LOL. Keep talking, Turk.
Study more, then. You suck at this.
You whine like a mule. Grow up and learn, Turk.

"Keep it up" you and the atheists are "winning" the race to the abyss.
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
What's reality; a rock in your head or the belief in your head that informs you of a rock?

Reality would be all that exists, but I'm not sure how I could know that.

It seems likely there are things that are real that I could not even think.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Reality would be all that exists, but I'm not sure how I could know that.

Actually the truth and reality is all that can be known to exist and occur. And it all takes place in and because of a believing mind.

Like I said; I have held human brains in my hands and it couldn't tell me any more than a rock about the person who owned it at one time. But a believing mind informs the believer and whoever else is willing to believe of the truth and reality.

It seems likely there are things that are real that I could not even think.

Stop for a minute and think about what you just said. You said "it seems likely there are things that are real that I could not even think". Are you a child of God? And are there "things that are real that" our Father and His Spirit "could not even think"? If you are a believer in the truth and reality of God you need to start believing like a child of God, because there is nothing that is real that is hidden from the Spirit of truth. And if He indwells you; then the Father withholds nothing from you.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
Because it is the only plausible explanation for the continuity of our experiences. Why is the rock still there after I close then reopen my eyes?

Do you believe or disbelieve it is there?

Did it cease to exist because my perception of it ceased? No.

No, you continue to know it exists because you believe it to exist silly.

he better explanation is that the real rock is distinct from my interrupted perceptions, continues to exist when my eyes are closed, and causes the same perceptions again once my eyes are reopened.

You continue to know it exists just because you continue to believe it exists, as perception hasn't anything to do with what you know exists silly..
 

Dizerner

Well-known member
Actually the truth and reality is all that can be known to exist and occur. And it all takes place in and because of a believing mind.

Like I said; I have held human brains in my hands and it couldn't tell me any more than a rock about the person who owned it at one time. But a believing mind informs the believer and whoever else is willing to believe of the truth and reality.

Stop for a minute and think about what you just said. You said "it seems likely there are things that are real that I could not even think". Are you a child of God? And are there "things that are real that" our Father and His Spirit "could not even think"? If you are a believer in the truth and reality of God you need to start believing like a child of God, because there is nothing that is real that is hidden from the Spirit of truth. And if He indwells you; then the Father withholds nothing from you.

Just because God shares his mind and nature with me, does not follow that I have the attributes of God.

That sounds like a spirit of error, something is very wrong with what you are saying.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
I can't help it if you're so deluded by your ignorant unbelief that you don't recognize logic.
No-one recognizes Terconian logic, and you won't find it in any textbook.

It has precisely one practitioner in the known universe, and he doesn't answer questions.
 
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