What's the Mystery?

during the sacrifice of the mass, when the priest says ' let us proclaim the mystery of faith' we respond either with one of the following acclamations or some variation of it:
-We proclaim your death, O Lord, and profess your resurrection until you come again.
-When we eat this bread and drink this cup, we proclaim your death, O Lord, until you come again.
-Save us, Savior of the world, for by your cross and resurrection you have set us free.

these different acclamations stressed the mystery of faith in context which are the real presence of Jesus in the eucharist, the impact of his death and resurrection for us, and his second coming
it does not mean we cannot understand them but these are all truths of the faith that we would not know if God has not revealedl it to us. it transcend our human reasoning if God has not revealed it to us and so we have to accept them by faith.
The Lords Table isn't a mystery. Its very clearly described and detailed in the bible. Its a mystery for catholics because people they have given authority to have twisted the Lords Table into something unrecognizable. THATS why its a mystery. The bible tells us clearly where any 'real presence' is and its not in food. Its in His people.
 
these different acclamations stressed the mystery of faith in context which are the real presence of Jesus in the eucharist, the impact of his death and resurrection for us, and his second coming
Jesus real presence lives and dwells in every believer. Jesus does not live in temples made with human hands.2 Corinthians 13:5, KJV: Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? Are you a reprobate?
 
I find it strange that the RCC which believes those who are to become saints must provide miracles that can be prove but when it comes to their real presence they don't even any proof whatsoever. Yet when there were changes and miracles in scripture there was always some proof eg water changed tasted like wine.
 
I find it strange that the RCC which believes those who are to become saints must provide miracles that can be prove but when it comes to their real presence they don't even any proof whatsoever. Yet when there were changes and miracles in scripture there was always some proof eg water changed tasted like wine.
Why, balshan, that is the mystery! How the RCC masters have differing standards of proof for miracles, and how relatively rational people can swallow it. A great mystery, indeed!

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

--Rich
 
Not in food. There is where two or three gather. And in us; Col 1:27. Catholicism gets it wrong again, or still.

The Lords Table isn't a mystery. Its very clearly described and detailed in the bible. Its a mystery for catholics because people they have given authority to have twisted the Lords Table into something unrecognizable. THATS why its a mystery. The bible tells us clearly where any 'real presence' is and its not in food. Its in His people.
Jesus real presence lives and dwells in every believer. Jesus does not live in temples made with human hands.2 Corinthians 13:5, KJV: Examine yourselves, whether ye be in the faith; prove your own selves. Know ye not your own selves, how that Jesus Christ is in you, except ye be reprobates? Are you a reprobate?

the real presence means Jesus is literally and wholly present, body and blood, soul and divinity. it is the 'real presence of Christ’s body and blood in the sacrament of the altar.” it is not just the phrase “Real Presence.” which may mean simply 'the idea of the risen Lord' or 'the Spirit of Christ” or even just 'the fellowship of the church'.
 
the real presence means Jesus is literally and wholly present, body and blood, soul and divinity. it is the 'real presence of Christ’s body and blood in the sacrament of the altar.” it is not just the phrase “Real Presence.” which may mean simply 'the idea of the risen Lord' or 'the Spirit of Christ” or even just 'the fellowship of the church'.
Yep and that is just a made up thing by the RCC
 
I find it strange that the RCC which believes those who are to become saints must provide miracles that can be prove but when it comes to their real presence they don't even any proof whatsoever. Yet when there were changes and miracles in scripture there was always some proof eg water changed tasted like wine.
Amen! And I find it strange also how Roman Catholics will try to point to reports of "Eucharistic miracles" as evidence that the consecrated host is the literal body and blood of Christ. However, God Himself warns us of such deception occuring in the last days, through His own Words in Scripture and the Holy Spirit's guidance:

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets,
and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch
that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very
elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if
they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert,
go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers;
believe it not." (Matt. 24: 24-26)
 
Amen! And I find it strange also how Roman Catholics will try to point to reports of "Eucharistic miracles" as evidence that the consecrated host is the literal body and blood of Christ. However, God Himself warns us of such deception occuring in the last days, through His own Words in Scripture and the Holy Spirit's guidance:

"For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets,
and shall show great signs and wonders; insomuch
that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very
elect. Behold, I have told you before. Wherefore if
they shall say unto you, Behold, he is in the desert,
go not forth: behold, he is in the secret chambers;
believe it not." (Matt. 24: 24-26)
If miracles aren't good enough, then what kind of "proof" are you asking for?
 
the real presence means Jesus is literally and wholly present, body and blood, soul and divinity. it is the 'real presence of Christ’s body and blood in the sacrament of the altar.”

Christ's presence in His followers is not less real or unreal.

Most Catholics do not understand that Christ is really present in His people because most Catholics have never experienced Him within.
 
If miracles aren't good enough, then what kind of "proof" are you asking for?

This is one of the reasons why the RCC is the largest atheist and agnostic factory on the planet.

When you keep telling Catholic children that a "miracle" has taken place on the RC altar...and they have to pretend something magical has happened...they learn that miracles are for chumps along with the religions that claim them. They look at the power of God recorded in Scripture and equate it to the "miracles" they never witnessed every week.

This is big. This is so impotant.

When the RCC cheapens the power of Almighty God to such a degree, they do great damage to the cause of Christ.
 
Christ's presence in His followers is not less real or unreal.

Most Catholics do not understand that Christ is really present in His people because most Catholics have never experienced Him within.
it is the real body and the real blood of Jesus present in the consecrated host.
it is not the presence of Jesus in his body, the church, but it is what we catholics call as... 'transubstantiation'.
it is the Blessed sacrament of the altar that we worship.
 
it is the real body and the real blood of Jesus present in the consecrated host.
it is not the presence of Jesus in his body, the church

Again, your claim that Jesus' presence within His followers is less real or unreal does not hold up under the light of the Word of God which refutes you.


it is the Blessed sacrament of the altar that we worship.

Any wafer the priest presents for worship is what Catholics will worship, as Catholics cannot tell the difference between Jesus Christ and an inanimate object.

This is nothing to be proud of.
 
And manifestations of the supernatural will abound
even to deceiving the ""Elect of God the Father" if it were possiable
and Pilgrim says
If miracles aren't good enough, then what kind of "proof" are you asking for?
pilgrim said:
If miracles aren't good enough, then what kind of "proof" are you asking for?
===================================

OK there Pilgrim,
whatever Rome says
Deut.13:1​
If there arise among you a prophet, or a dreamer of dreams,​
and giveth thee a sign or a wonder,​
2 And the sign or the wonder come to pass,​
whereof he spake unto thee,​
saying,​
Let us go after other gods, which thou hast not known,​
and let us serve them;​
3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet,​
or that dreamer of dreams:​
for the Lord your God​
proveth you,​
to know whether ye love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul.​

Looks like Pilgrim will fail the test
 
Again, your claim that Jesus' presence within His followers is less real or unreal does not hold up under the light of the Word of God which refutes you.
that is your version of the 'real presence' and i am not questioning it.
what i am trying to tell you is that we do not use the phrase 'real presence' as the presence of jesus in his church.
we call this 'real presence' as 'transubstantiation' which is the real body and the real blood of Jesus present in the consecrated host.

Any wafer the priest presents for worship is what Catholics will worship, as Catholics cannot tell the difference between Jesus Christ and an inanimate object.

This is nothing to be proud of.
not only catholics but also eastern orthodox worship the sacrament of the altar, the consecrated host. what you see is the bread and wine but the substance is Jesus Christ, body, soul, and divinity.
 
what i am trying to tell you is that we do not use the phrase 'real presence' as the presence of jesus in his church.

That is my point. In Catholicism, Christ's presence within His people is less real or unreal.

This falsehood does not hold up under the light of the Word of God.

not only catholics but also eastern orthodox worship the sacrament of the altar, the consecrated host.

Yes. Roman Catholics will worship any wafer their priests present. Of course, even in Catholicism, Catholics are impotent at even knowing what is a validly consecrated host and what is not.

No matter. Catholics will it worship anyway.

This is not theory. This is practice. Of course, when I warn Catholics about this problem, they justify their idolatry by insisting they are only following orders. Amazing, huh?
 
That is my point. In Catholicism, Christ's presence within His people is less real or unreal.

This falsehood does not hold up under the light of the Word of God.
check your history. the phrase 'real presence' is an Anglican term. even in the definition of transubstantiation in the 4th lateran council, 1215, the orthodox terminology is 'real body and real blood of Christ'. the phrase 'real presence' was never mentioned. we do believe in the real (spiritual) presence of Jesus in his church and His real (physical) presence in the Eucharist.
Yes. Roman Catholics will worship any wafer their priests present. Of course, even in Catholicism, Catholics are impotent at even knowing what is a validly consecrated host and what is not.

No matter. Catholics will it worship anyway.

This is not theory. This is practice. Of course, when I warn Catholics about this problem, they justify their idolatry by insisting they are only following orders. Amazing, huh?
Catholics, like Eastern orthodox , believe because Jesus said so. we trust Him because as God, what he says is true.
Mark 14:22–24
 
check your history. the phrase 'real presence' is an Anglican term. even in the definition of transubstantiation in the 4th lateran council, 1215, the orthodox terminology is 'real body and real blood of Christ'. the phrase 'real presence' was never mentioned. we do believe in the real (spiritual) presence of Jesus in his church and His real (physical) presence in the Eucharist.

Catholics, like Eastern orthodox , believe because Jesus said so. we trust Him because as God, what he says is true.
Mark 14:22–24
The etomology of the phrase is not being discussed and the RCC loves to plagiaritize terms and phrase used by others and put their own spin on it.

Jesus clearly used it symbolically so you cannot say you trust Him at all. You are trusting what men say.
 
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