What's the RCC's Teaching About the Doctrine of Justification?

If you knew what you were talking about (and Rome as well) then you wouldn't need to concoct up words like "initial" in a vain attempt to sound like you )and Rome) might know what you are talking about.
Well this is not what happened. Catholic doctrine of justification needed to counter the concocted theories that arose at the reformation such as "imputed righteousness" and an "elect" that would not be judged by God at Judgment. Theories that harmed the soul and effectively denied free will and relationship between God and sinful man.
 
Well this is not what happened. Catholic doctrine of justification needed to counter the concocted theories that arose at the reformation such as "imputed righteousness" and an "elect" that would not be judged by God at Judgment. Theories that harmed the soul and effectively denied free will and relationship between God and sinful man.
Prove that those who had the sense to leave the RCC and survived concocted theories that needed to be countered???? It is RC false teachings that harm the soul and deny the truth about the relationship between believers and Jesus.

So you really had no defence of the RCC meaningless verbiage.
 
Instead of "infusion.........." why don't they just say, "indwelling of the Holy Spirit"?

Because the rc teaching is that they become like Jesus when he walked among us. The infusion is entirely different from the presence of the Holy Spirit. I like the the following analogy

Water (human) is infused with tea or coffee, (Jesus) to make a beverage. Each mass, they get a little more tea or coffee mixed in till the mixure after years of doing this... the beverage is pure tea or coffee replacing the water entirely. The idea, is of Jesus being physically inside of them and changing their bodies; instead of them fellowshiping in spirit and in truth as Scripture teaches.

The rcc fights tooth and nail against the idea that God would grant sinners forgiveness. That He would "impute" righteousness to sinners. The above allows rc's to become righteous first, then maybe then, they are holy enough to receive God's forgiveness. In other words, a person has to be righteous in order to be forgiven. The whole substantiation idea of eating flesh and blood came from a pagan philosopher who knew nothing of who Jesus is. And he was trying to explain the meaning of the cross from an atheist's view point. Satan's lies really. And the rcc just bought into it, hook, line and sinker.

The rc eucharist goes against Scripture as a whole. The rcc also doesn't want to accept "imputation" because back in the dark ages, they changed it to infusion to keep people from hearing what the reformers were saying was the real gospel message. They were afraid that if, people heard the truth, they would leave the rcc altogether.
 
Because the rc teaching is that they become like Jesus when he walked among us. The infusion is entirely different from the presence of the Holy Spirit. I like the the following analogy

Water (human) is infused with tea or coffee, (Jesus) to make a beverage. Each mass, they get a little more tea or coffee mixed in till the mixure after years of doing this... the beverage is pure tea or coffee replacing the water entirely. The idea, is of Jesus being physically inside of them and changing their bodies; instead of them fellowshiping in spirit and in truth as Scripture teaches.

The rcc fights tooth and nail against the idea that God would grant sinners forgiveness. That He would "impute" righteousness to sinners. The above allows rc's to become righteous first, then maybe then, they are holy enough to receive God's forgiveness. In other words, a person has to be righteous in order to be forgiven. The whole substantiation idea of eating flesh and blood came from a pagan philosopher who knew nothing of who Jesus is. And he was trying to explain the meaning of the cross from an atheist's view point. Satan's lies really. And the rcc just bought into it, hook, line and sinker.

The rc eucharist goes against Scripture as a whole. The rcc also doesn't want to accept "imputation" because back in the dark ages, they changed it to infusion to keep people from hearing what the reformers were saying was the real gospel message. They were afraid that if, people heard the truth, they would leave the rcc altogether.
Sounds like a tea bag in hot water.
 
Why yes, the Church always defined it such, "The supernatural state of being infused by God, which permanently inheres in the soul. It is a vital principle of the supernatural life, as the rational soul is the vital principle of a human being's natural life." Infusion is the pouring in symbolized in the waters of Baptism out of which we receive a real grace. Justification, sanctification and righteousness are always a grace (Greek, charis), an unmerited benevolent gift of God on human primarily in the sacrament of Baptism, and strengthen with actual grace.

JoeT
Okay, according to your definition then, we know that RC theology teaches you that infused grace is a spiritual power or strength given to believers in Roman Catholicism which then enables them to perform meritorious works. And, that when Roman Catholics cooperate with this grace and make good use of it, they gain the power to become just and righteous in themselves. So, if Roman Catholics have this "grace" (i.e., a power or substance) within them, they can then literally earn their own way into heaven! How is that though?
 
Last edited:
Because the rc teaching is that they become like Jesus when he walked among us. The infusion is entirely different from the presence of the Holy Spirit. I like the the following analogy

Water (human) is infused with tea or coffee, (Jesus) to make a beverage. Each mass, they get a little more tea or coffee mixed in till the mixure after years of doing this... the beverage is pure tea or coffee replacing the water entirely. The idea, is of Jesus being physically inside of them and changing their bodies; instead of them fellowshiping in spirit and in truth as Scripture teaches.

The rcc fights tooth and nail against the idea that God would grant sinners forgiveness. That He would "impute" righteousness to sinners. The above allows rc's to become righteous first, then maybe then, they are holy enough to receive God's forgiveness. In other words, a person has to be righteous in order to be forgiven. The whole substantiation idea of eating flesh and blood came from a pagan philosopher who knew nothing of who Jesus is. And he was trying to explain the meaning of the cross from an atheist's view point. Satan's lies really. And the rcc just bought into it, hook, line and sinker.

The rc eucharist goes against Scripture as a whole. The rcc also doesn't want to accept "imputation" because back in the dark ages, they changed it to infusion to keep people from hearing what the reformers were saying was the real gospel message. They were afraid that if, people heard the truth, they would leave the rcc altogether.
More than any other institution or 'masters of magic', the Roman Catholic Church stands proud and firm above them all as the 'masters' of their 'magic religion' - prest-o! - change-o! - and RC's better believe it or they'll have hell to pay!!!
 
Well this is not what happened. Catholic doctrine of justification needed to counter the concocted theories that arose at the reformation such as "imputed righteousness" and an "elect" that would not be judged by God at Judgment. Theories that harmed the soul and effectively denied free will and relationship between God and sinful man.
Your statement shows not only how utterly deaf and blind to the truth of GOD that you are, but how you have exchanged it for the lies of your false and apostate religion.

Romans 4:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
 
Stella1000 said:
Well this is not what happened. Catholic doctrine of justification needed to counter the concocted theories that arose at the reformation such as "imputed righteousness" and an "elect" that would not be judged by God at Judgment. Theories that harmed the soul and effectively denied free will and relationship between God and sinful man.
it had to counter the truth of God's word!
 
Your statement shows not only how utterly deaf and blind to the truth of GOD that you are, but how you have exchanged it for the lies of your false and apostate religion.

Romans 4:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
Nice try, but you are only quoting scripture (God's word). You know the romanist religion's words are more authoritative! Their pope and madhysterical can snap their fingers and set mud holes on fire! Why would they want to follow God's word?
 
then what is it?
The canon bible is 73 books, your deformation managed to lose 7.
when does the rcc teach about it?
every day in every Catholic Church in every language.
why don't catholics know it?
They do, every day in every way. Why do you seem to deform the meaning of Sacred Scripture?
can you quote Paul?
Sure. can you? After all, St. Paul was among the first Catholics.

JoeT
 
Your statement shows not only how utterly deaf and blind to the truth of GOD that you are, but how you have exchanged it for the lies of your false and apostate religion.

Romans 4:
20 He staggered not at the promise of God through unbelief; but was strong in faith, giving glory to God;
21 And being fully persuaded that, what he had promised, he was able also to perform.
22 And therefore it was imputed to him for righteousness.
23 Now it was not written for his sake alone, that it was imputed to him;
24 But for us also, to whom it shall be imputed, if we believe on him that raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead;
25 Who was delivered for our offences, and was raised again for our justification.
“Imputed” does not put into or take out of an individual’s honor, rather the individual is judged not by the works he does in the Law of Moses or the Prophets but is judged by that honor which already exists in him, i.e. his quality in the state of justification. Imputed is always conflated with “input” and input is conflated with reputed in Protestantism and de-formism. The sense of the word in Catholicism is to make a judgment, nothing goes in or out that is imputed, rather an attribute is ascribed to something which is imputed. In Protestantism/de-formism, “imputed” and input are interchangeable. Imputed is always used as an 'accusation' for sin. 'Reputed' alleges a thing. For example, in Romans 4:5 it is alleged that faith is justified. We are furnished by God a renewed spirit, and are 'reputed' (alleged to be) just and called just. The Holy Spirit declares just or unjust to each one according to their disposition and cooperation. Nothing is inputted that isn't already there according to the individuals will. If you don't want to 'work' then the implication is simple, you don't want to be saved. Thus, we should read Romans 4:5 to understand that the “gentile”, those who were judged by the Jew (not necessarily by God) to be ungodly, is indeed judged by God apart from his works demanded in Judaism. Obedience then, a work, is indeed credited, or judged to be righteous because it demonstrates faith in God.

As you say, "Your statement shows not only how utterly deaf and blind to the truth of GOD that you are, but how you have exchanged it for the lies of your false and apostate religion," not to mention Protestism is a declared heresy.

JoeT
 
“Imputed” does not put into or take out of an individual’s honor, rather the individual is judged not by the works he does in the Law of Moses or the Prophets but is judged by that honor which already exists in him, i.e. his quality in the state of justification. Imputed is always conflated with “input” and input is conflated with reputed in Protestantism and de-formism. The sense of the word in Catholicism is to make a judgment, nothing goes in or out that is imputed, rather an attribute is ascribed to something which is imputed. In Protestantism/de-formism, “imputed” and input are interchangeable. Imputed is always used as an 'accusation' for sin. 'Reputed' alleges a thing. For example, in Romans 4:5 it is alleged that faith is justified. We are furnished by God a renewed spirit, and are 'reputed' (alleged to be) just and called just. The Holy Spirit declares just or unjust to each one according to their disposition and cooperation. Nothing is inputted that isn't already there according to the individuals will. If you don't want to 'work' then the implication is simple, you don't want to be saved. Thus, we should read Romans 4:5 to understand that the “gentile”, those who were judged by the Jew (not necessarily by God) to be ungodly, is indeed judged by God apart from his works demanded in Judaism. Obedience then, a work, is indeed credited, or judged to be righteous because it demonstrates faith in God.

As you say, "Your statement shows not only how utterly deaf and blind to the truth of GOD that you are, but how you have exchanged it for the lies of your false and apostate religion," not to mention Protestism is a declared heresy.

JoeT
You need to look up the definition of imputed. Also look up reckoned and check the synonyms too. We are reckoned as righteous by grace through faith. All your works are as filthy rags to God. How many piles of filthy rags does it take to please God? Then you need to do some serious bible study. And compare what scripture says to what your accursed, false religion of romanism says.
 
“Imputed” does not put into or take out of an individual’s honor, rather the individual is judged not by the works he does in the Law of Moses or the Prophets but is judged by that honor which already exists in him, i.e. his quality in the state of justification. Imputed is always conflated with “input” and input is conflated with reputed in Protestantism and de-formism. The sense of the word in Catholicism is to make a judgment, nothing goes in or out that is imputed, rather an attribute is ascribed to something which is imputed. In Protestantism/de-formism, “imputed” and input are interchangeable. Imputed is always used as an 'accusation' for sin. 'Reputed' alleges a thing. For example, in Romans 4:5 it is alleged that faith is justified. We are furnished by God a renewed spirit, and are 'reputed' (alleged to be) just and called just. The Holy Spirit declares just or unjust to each one according to their disposition and cooperation. Nothing is inputted that isn't already there according to the individuals will. If you don't want to 'work' then the implication is simple, you don't want to be saved. Thus, we should read Romans 4:5 to understand that the “gentile”, those who were judged by the Jew (not necessarily by God) to be ungodly, is indeed judged by God apart from his works demanded in Judaism. Obedience then, a work, is indeed credited, or judged to be righteous because it demonstrates faith in God.

As you say, "Your statement shows not only how utterly deaf and blind to the truth of GOD that you are, but how you have exchanged it for the lies of your false and apostate religion," not to mention Protestism is a declared heresy.

JoeT
Are you the pope? NO, but You certainly are pompous.
Are you a member of the magisterium? NO, then you have absolutely no right, according to your own religious law, to define imputed for yourself much less anyone else.
 
You need to look up the definition of imputed. Also look up reckoned and check the synonyms too. We are reckoned as righteous by grace through faith. All your works are as filthy rags to God. How many piles of filthy rags does it take to please God? Then you need to do some serious bible study. And compare what scripture says to what your accursed, false religion of romanism says.
Ok, guess what? You are wrong.



IMPUTATION:
Attribute praise or, more generally, blame to someone whether the person is actually responsible or not [to ascribe to another]. [Fr. John A. Hardon, S.J, Modern Catholic Dictionary]

If you don’t like this definition, you’re not going to like the truth either.

IMPUTED JUSTICE: A Reformation theory that God ceases to impute to a sinner the guilt of one's sins because the merits of Christ are imputed to one in justification. The theory was condemned by the Council of Trent, which declared that, through justification, the sinner is not merely no longer considered sinful (because of Christ's imputed merits) but becomes a child of God, possessed of sanctifying grace and having a right to heaven. [Ibid]

Grace however is infused, a reality marked on the soul, not an attribute, not imputed, or inputted, as many want to say. Martin Luther's philosophy of imputation is salvation stamped on the impure soul of the elect, unable to resist and thus is saved.

If we take imputed justice as the deformationist way, we are left with an illogical enigma. Such a model of grace according to Protestant doctrine is irresistible yet not for the sinner. The sinner is can only be righteous according to God given grace when He covers the dung pile with a white blanket of snowy righteousness of Christ and says, “this is my adopted son”.

If you think that's illogical it gets more convoluted. If God sees into the hearts of men discerning the just and the unjust, why then would he declare the dung pile “righteous”? Does God not have a sense of smell? Holding his nose, God is forced to pick His deformed dung pile to ascend to heaven where the unclean are not permitted – an absurd incongruity. You must wonder about the sincerity of a God when He can create the universe with His word, call it good and can’t discern between just and unjust.

Conversely, the Catholic infusion of grace is true salvation, without a magician’s magic snow-blanket trick. He judges a man righteous based on his faith and his perseverance in good works keeping His Word. God’s grace is freely given to man for perfection in the conversion of faith. In the perfection of one’s justification we are assured salvation, and ever-increasing grace washing and regenerating the soul of a just man.

JoeT
 
Back
Top