What's your eternity going to be like?

[Whatsisface]

Yet you continue to refuse to actually do anything.
I've repeatedly explained that the only way to know anything is true is to act on it.

There is another way, and that is to detail your own path. In a way teachers do this every day with their pupils, teaching them what others have found out. But you continue to refuse to do this.

in this case, you have to do what Jesus said to know if it's true or not.

See above.

presence.

This is all too vague to mean anything. For example you could have said exactly what this entails. Did you feel something? How did you know this was Jesus/Yahweh? Why aren't you being forthcoming with your testimony?

Not to me. He said them to the people who wrote them down for us to have.

How do you know this actually happened?

 

[SteveB]

There is another way, and that is to detail your own path.

I already did. You decided to mock it. As Jesus said to not give that which is holy to dogs, or cast pearls before swine, lest thry trample them under foit, and then turn on, and shred you to pieces, I'll stick with the basics.

In a way teachers do this every day with their pupils, teaching them what others have found out.

Except in my college classes, they didn’t tell us their personal experiences. They taught us the precepts and principles by written example and explanations.
Since you have repeatedly rejected this method and mode, by refusing to follow the instructions given, you leave yourself out in cold, dark and damp.

But you continue to refuse to do this.

See above.

Nope. It's been done, repeatedly, for over a decade. You refuse.

This is all too vague to mean anything.

only for people who refuse to engage in action, and doing what they are given to do.

For example you could have said what does this entailed. Did you feel something?

Sometimes I feel things. Other times I feel nothing.
When i feel things, it has been a variety of feelings. Joy, happiness, sadness, sorrow, contentment, fullness, emptiness, peace, etc.... the whole gamet of human emotions.

emotions aren't the gauge against which we're to judge the veracity of biblical truth.
if you think otherwise, then I'd say that you have been dragged around by the nose.

exactly as described in Ephesians 4.

Eph 4:14 WEB that we may no longer be children, tossed back and forth and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in craftiness, after the wiles of error;

How did you know this was Jesus/Yahweh?

It matches what the Bible says.
How many times did you need me to state this for you?

How do you know this actually happened?

Rather curious thing about actual experience.... it's unmistakable.

Although, I suppose since you are inexperienced, you have nothing real to recognise objective truth.

How do you know that the people who claim to be your mom and dad are actually your parents?

 

[Furion]

"What's your eternity going to be like?"​

I reject the premise of the question.

Why?

Yours will be inexistence, right?

Are you afraid to say it or something?

Mines is so bright I'll need to wear

Does it bother you some believe their's is a glorious eternity?

I mean it's not a bother to me you believe inexistence is your lot.

 

[Whatsisface]

I already did. You decided to mock it. As Jesus said to not give that which is holy to dogs, or cast pearls before swine, lest thry trample them under foit, and then turn on, and shred you to pieces, I'll stick with the basics.

Steve: I know God exists.
Me: Can you detail your path to that knowledge?
Steve: I'm not going to tell you.

Except in my college classes, they didn’t tell us their personal experiences. They taught us the precepts and principles by written example and explanations.
Since you have repeatedly rejected this method and mode, by refusing to follow the instructions given, you leave yourself out in cold, dark and damp.

But I haven't rejected it as I keep asking you to detail your journey which is key, but for some reason you won't. Here's the thing, if you could show that you know how you've found God you would get us atheist's attention far more than you have done so far. If you don't, it just looks like you don't have the confidence to be convincing.

Sometimes I feel things. Other times I feel nothing.
When i feel things, it has been a variety of feelings. Joy, happiness, sadness, sorrow, contentment, fullness, emptiness, peace, etc.... the whole gamet of human emotions.


It matches what the Bible says.
How many times did you need me to state this for you?

But, why does that mean you've found God? A possibility is that the people who wrote the Bible could be recounting their subjective experiences of what they think is God.

Rather curious thing about actual experience.... it's unmistakable.

Ok. But adherents of other religions with other Gods have them too.

Although, I suppose since you are inexperienced, you have nothing real to recognise objective truth.

Subjective personal experience is often a poor path to truth.

How do you know that the people who claim to be your mom and dad are actually your parents?

DNA. What's yourpoint?

 

[SteveB]

Steve: I know God exists.
Me: Can you detail your path to that knowledge?
Steve: I'm not going to tell you.

Me: Actually, I've told you numerous times.
I asked. He responded. He said that we must do so on his terms.
You: what are those terms?
Me: read the Bible because everything you need is contained in it.
you: i don't want to waste my time with that. Just explain it to me.
me: pray, read, and obey what the Bible says.
you: I don't want to do that, just explain it to me.
me: pray, read the Bible and obey what it says.

this general routine has been your ongoing practice for the past decade +.

But I haven't rejected it as I keep asking you to detail your journey which is key, but for some reason you won't.

as i invited you to come to visit me, but you refused , and then decided that you wanted to mock me, vilify my doctors, accusing them of not being real medical doctors, you have made my personal experiences irrelevant. That you continue to insist on this, demonstrates that you are either an embecile or like playing games.
therefore, you have made my personal experiences irrelevant.
thus, you can either get off your cowardly derriere and take the time to read the Bible and do what Jesus says to do, or live with the consequences of your own failures.

Here's the thing, if you could show that you know how you've found God you would get us atheist's attention far more than you have done so far.

Here's the thing WiF,
you've spent well over a decade telling me that you didn't want to take my word for my experiences. You didn't want to make a 6000 mile plane trip to learn from medical professionals with decades of experience, education and hands on skill, so you clearly don't want to know what others think.
therefore, the only thing that remains is that you read the Bible for yourself and then do what Jesus says to do.
Quite frankly, I can't think of anything more effective, more primal, and basic to learn the truth than this.
So, quit acting so cowardly and do it?

If you don't, it just looks like you don't have the confidence to be convincing.

I've spent a decade detailing my own experiences. You mocked, and vilified me, and the medical professionals who made the claim of my miraculous state.
So, it's quite clear that your refusal to read the Bible and do what Jesus says is that you are the one who lacks the confidence.

I asked him because I had no other way to go about learning.
He's the one who responded. So, engage him on his terms.

But, why does that mean you've found God?

Instead of asking the same question repeatedly, go find out for yourself.
especially when you don't want to take my word for it.
come on WiF! Get over yourself and call on his name. It doesn't get any simpler than that.
If you're unwilling to do this.... the problem is you and you alone.

A possibility is that the people who wrote the Bible could be recounting their subjective experiences of what they think is God.

Then I'd say you have a problem that only you and Jesus can deal with.
And since you're too cowardly to do anything about it, you will learn the hard way.

Ok. But adherents of other religions with other Gods have them too.

And this is my problem.... why?
You're the one who lacks the courage to find out. So why is your cowardice a problem for me?

Subjective personal experience is often a poor path to truth.

And yet this is exactly what you have been doing for the entire time you have been on this forum.
so, again.... why is your cowardice my problem?

DNA. What's yourpoint?

Read, and then act on the Bible to find out!

 

[Whatsisface]

Me: Actually, I've told you numerous times.

No you haven't. You haven't detailed your path.

 

[SteveB]

No you haven't. You haven't detailed your path.

You really are clueless, aren't you.

I asked.
He answered.
I then began reading the bible and talking to Him.

There. That's my path.

We have an old saying here in the United States.

The journey of 100,000 miles begins with a single step.

Since you have spent the past 13+ years of your life on this forum, giving excuse after excuse after excuse for why you shouldn't have to take that first step, how would you possibly understand a 46 year journey?

 

[Whatsisface]

You really are clueless, aren't you.

No. You are though.

I asked.
He answered.
I then began reading the bible and talking to Him.

There. That's my path.

That's vague to the point of meaninglessness. It doesn't show how you know He answered, and considering you have said He doesn't talk to you, you could be describing an emotional reaction to the idea of God alone. How would you know one way or the other?

We have an old saying here in the United States.

The journey of 100,000 miles begins with a single step.

Since you have spent the past 13+ years of your life on this forum, giving excuse after excuse after excuse for why you shouldn't have to take that first step, how would you possibly understand a 46 year journey?

We have an old saying in England.

Only in America.

 

[SteveB]

No. You are though.

Of course I am.

That's vague to the point of meaninglessness.

Not really.
i suppose that since you're not actually interested in knowing the truth, that's yet one more in a long, long, 13+ year line of excuses.

It doesn't show how you know He answered, and considering you have said He doesn't talk to you, you could be describing an emotional reaction to the idea of God alone.

that's why the Bible.
it actually details how we know he answered us, and not just a flimsical, or emotional desire.
I've given you those passages before, but you keep telling me that you could be so bothered reading them.
which further demonstrates that you really don't want to know the truth.

We've been through this several hundred times before over the past decade. But your refusal to engage in the first step means that you'll never know until it's too late to do anything effective about it.

How would you know one way or the other?

the Bible.

We have an old saying in England.

Only in America.

And to American citizens, this is a compliment of the highest order.
I'm grateful my ancestors left the various UK countries before it was the UK.

 

[Whatsisface]

I'm grateful my ancestors left the various UK countries before it was the UK.

Great. So am I.

 

[SteveB]

Hell is dark, 1 John 1:5, God is light.

There's only death in hell because God is life, John 1:4

There's only hatred in hell because 1 John 4:16 says God is love.

There's no mercy in hell because Psalm 36:5 says God's mercies are in the heavens

There's no strength in hell because Psalm 18:32 says God gives us strength.

There's no water in hell because Deuteronomy 11:11 says water is the rain of heaven.

There's no peace in hell because Isaiah 9:6 says God is the prince of peace.

There's no understanding, wisdom or knowledge in hell because God gives all three, Proverbs 2:6, Ecclesiastes 2:26, Daniel 2:21.

There's no joy in hell because God gives joy. Ecclesiastes 2:26, Galatians 5:22.

There is no satisfaction in hell because God gives all to enjoy, and be satisfied with. Joel 2:19, 26

There is no comfort in hell because God is comfort. 2 Corinthians 1:3-7.

There are none of the things that make life worthwhile, because God gives all, Acts 14:17.

There is no encouragement in hell because God is the God of encouragement, Romans 15:5

There is no hope in hell because God gives us hope through the scriptures. Romans 15:4.

So, if God removes himself from the situation, all the good goes with him.

You can't have the good without God.

You can't separate the two.

So, if you're the person who says- "I don't want anything to do with God,"

Fine.

There's a place prepared that has nothing to do with him.

It's known as hell and later, the lake of fire.

Neither God, nor we who follow Jesus want you to spend your eternity there. It's why Jesus came.

As it's written,

Joh 3:16-17 WEB 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him.

Please. Come follow Jesus.

Everything that pertains to life and godliness are with God.

It's described as paradise because in God, Everything that makes life worthwhile, enjoyable, satisfying, God is and gives.

 

[The Pixie]

Neither God, nor we who follow Jesus want you to spend your eternity there. It's why Jesus came.

So why did God set up a system that causes billions of people to end up there? None of them want to be there either. They get no choice; it is God sending them there.

 

[SteveB]

So why did God set up a system that causes billions of people to end up there? None of them want to be there either. They get no choice; it is God sending them there.

Because he's given you someplace to spend your eternity.

Any other situation would require his presence to sustain and provide you with the resources to afford you the life you've become accustomed to.

Since you don't actually want anything to do with him, he's not going to force you to live in an environment where he is.

Hell, and then the lake of fire is where he is not.

 

[treeplanter]

Any other situation would require his presence to sustain and provide

God does not need to 'exist' within annihilation - i.e. a state of non-existence - in order to sustain and provide it, Steve!

And this is true even if it weren't a logical impossibility along the lines of creating square circles...

Since you don't actually want anything to do with him

And why is that, Steve?

It's because He offends our shared standard of human morality

That you, in spite of this, devote yourself to Him in exchange for eternal life is truly disgusting

You have annihilated your own integrity

 

[stiggy wiggy]

So why did God set up a system that .............

Even though God "set up" the Solar System, He doesn't "set up" systems involving those living persons whom He created in His image. None of us, whether believers or unbelievers, are cogs in a lifeless systematic machine. We will all be dealing with a Living God.

 

[5wize]

Even though God "set up" the Solar System, He doesn't "set up" systems involving those living persons whom He created in His image. None of us, whether believers or unbelievers, are cogs in a lifeless systematic machine. We will all be dealing with a Living God.

There is biblical support for God setting up "systems involving those living persons whom He created”.

Isaiah 45:6-7 (KJV) "That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

... but he even takes it further and binds us to his created evil.....

Romans 11:32... For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

 

[SteveB]

God does not need to 'exist' within annihilation - i.e. a state of non-existence - in order to sustain and provide it, Steve!

As it's written,
The gifts and callings of God are without repentance.
I.e., God is not what we used to refer to as an "Indian giver."
So, annihilation and non-existence are not an option.

And this is true even if it weren't a logical impossibility along the lines of creating square circles...

You go ahead and get that going.

And why is that, Steve?

Because, as Jesus said,
Joh 3:18-21 WEB 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only born Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the light and doesn’t come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.”

As you love your sin more than you love the truth, you will receive exactly what you want.
An eternity separated from YHVH.

It's because He offends our shared standard of human morality

Jesus said it as follows

Joh 3:18-21 WEB 18 He who believes in him is not judged. He who doesn’t believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only born Son of God. 19 This is the judgment, that the light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the light, for their works were evil. 20 For everyone who does evil hates the light and doesn’t come to the light, lest his works would be exposed. 21 But he who does the truth comes to the light, that his works may be revealed, that they have been done in God.”

Paul then describes it as follows

Rom 1:28-32 WEB 28 Even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, malice; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil habits, secret slanderers, 30 backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also approve of those who practice them.

And

Eph 4:18-19 WEB 18 being darkened in their understanding, alienated from the life of God because of the ignorance that is in them, because of the hardening of their hearts. 19 They, having become callous, gave themselves up to lust, to work all uncleanness with greediness.

Along with

2Th 2:10-12 WEB 10 and with all deception of wickedness for those who are being lost, because they didn’t receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 Because of this, God sends them a powerful delusion, that they should believe a lie, 12 that they all might be judged who didn’t believe the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

So.... you can indeed claim that we have a shared morality. YHVH's righteousness is pure and holy and just.

As you're choosing death, the only morality you possess leads to death.
I personally prefer life. It's much more.... life-inducing.

That you, in spite of this, devote yourself to Him in exchange for eternal life is truly disgusting

Then you have absolutely nothing to worry about.
You'll receive exactly what you want.

Rom 1:28-32 WEB 28 Even as they refused to have God in their knowledge, God gave them up to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not fitting; 29 being filled with all unrighteousness, sexual immorality, wickedness, covetousness, malice; full of envy, murder, strife, deceit, evil habits, secret slanderers, 30 backbiters, hateful to God, insolent, arrogant, boastful, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents, 31 without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, unforgiving, unmerciful; 32 who, knowing the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but also approve of those who practice them.

You have annihilated your own integrity

Actually, I died with Jesus. Exactly as described in

Col 2:13-15 WEB 13 You were dead through your trespasses and the uncircumcision of your flesh. He made you alive together with him, having forgiven us all our trespasses, 14 wiping out the handwriting in ordinances which was against us. He has taken it out of the way, nailing it to the cross. 15 Having stripped the principalities and the powers, he made a show of them openly, triumphing over them in it.

Col 3:1-4 WEB 1 If then you were raised together with Christ, seek the things that are above, where Christ is, seated on the right hand of God. 2 Set your mind on the things that are above, not on the things that are on the earth. 3 For you died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God. 4 When Christ, our life, is revealed, then you will also be revealed with him in glory.

It's rather difficult to annihilate my integrity when I assassinated myself because of my sin.

As it's further written

Rom 7:7-14 WEB 7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? May it never be! However, I wouldn’t have known sin except through the law. For I wouldn’t have known coveting unless the law had said, “You shall not covet.” 8 But sin, finding occasion through the commandment, produced in me all kinds of coveting. For apart from the law, sin is dead. 9 I was alive apart from the law once, but when the commandment came, sin revived and I died. 10 The commandment which was for life, this I found to be for death; 11 for sin, finding occasion through the commandment, deceived me, and through it killed me. 12 Therefore the law indeed is holy, and the commandment holy, righteous, and good. 13 Did then that which is good become death to me? May it never be! But sin, that it might be shown to be sin, was producing death in me through that which is good; that through the commandment sin might become exceedingly sinful. 14 For we know that the law is spiritual, but I am fleshly, sold under sin.

My very own sin slaughtered me. Just as an assassin with a machete walked up and started chopping away at me.
And when I looked in the mirror I saw that the assassin was me. It was my own choosing that was hacking away at me.

Jesus came along and washed my sin, after he paid the bill for my sin, and raised me from the dead.

 

[treeplanter]

Even though God "set up" the Solar System, He doesn't "set up" systems involving those living persons whom He created in His image.

Of course, He does!

You think it is nature, itself, that has decreed that we are corrupt - having inherited said corruption from Adam, but who do you think it was that designed nature such that spiritual corruption be inheritable?

Funny how God is large and in charge when it suits stiggy wiggy's purposes, but 'hands off' and/or inept when it doesn't...

 

[treeplanter]

The gifts and callings of God are without repentance.

What does this mean?

As you love your sin more than you love the truth, you will receive exactly what you want.
An eternity separated from YHVH.

Wrong again, Steve

I love moral integrity more than I love eternal life

So.... you can indeed claim that we have a shared morality.

Yes, I can and do claim it

You, on the other hand, cannot deny it

The best you can manage is to ignore it and barf up another bible verse

Tell me that it is morally acceptable to consciously and purposefully inflict needless harm upon others and prove me wrong!

Alas, you will not / cannot do so

YHVH's righteousness is pure and holy and just.

Wrong again, Steve

It is anything but...

 

[SteveB]

What does this mean?

Read it again. I explained what it meant immediately following.
EDITED
He doesn't give gifts, and then turn around and take them away.

Wrong again, Steve

According to who?

I love moral integrity more than I love eternal life

EDITED
So, you get to keep your sin and live forever with the consequences of your sin.

Yes, I can and do claim it

And your sin is your shared human morality.
It's already murdered you.

You, on the other hand, cannot deny it

I described my situation.
My sin murdered me. Jesus raised me from the dead.

The best you can manage is to ignore it and barf up another bible verse

as God says, you don't want to know him, you'll get exactly what you want.

Tell me that it is morally acceptable to consciously and purposefully inflict needless harm upon others and prove me wrong!

You're the only one who continues to consciously and purposely inflict needless harm on yourself and others by calling them to abandon YHVH's love in Christ.

Alas, you will not / cannot do so

why would I be THAT stupid?
i actually love life, and the Hope that God has given us in Christ.
he clearly states that he loves me with an everlasting love. I'd have to be an embecile to abandon such profound and meaningful love.

Wrong again, Steve

says the guy who is deliberately, consciously, and purposefully choosing to inflict needless harm upon himself and others.

It is anything but...

says the guy who is deliberately, consciously, and purposefully choosing to inflict needless harm upon himself and others.