What's your eternity going to be like?

There is biblical support for God setting up "systems involving those living persons whom He created”.

Isaiah 45:6-7 (KJV) "That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else. I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things."

... but he even takes it further and binds us to his created evil.....

Romans 11:32... For God has bound everyone over to disobedience so that he may have mercy on them all.

Those aren't systems. And incidentally, His binding me over to disobedience is just another way of saying He gave me free will. He knew I would not do what was best for me. I often still don't. But He never has confined me to some system.
 
Of course, He does!

And yet He doesn't.

You think it is nature, itself, that has decreed that we are corrupt

No one or no "system" has "decreed" our corruption. We corrupt ourselves by choosing to sin.

Funny how God is large and in charge when it suits stiggy wiggy's purposes, but 'hands off' and/or inept when it doesn't...

"Funny?" No, I'd use the word "blessed" to describe God's being in charge, and I thank Him that He is always "Hands on," especially when dealing with stuff that does not "suit my purposes," said purposes be often at cross purpose with His.
 
His binding me over to disobedience is just another way of saying He gave me free will. He knew I would not do what was best for me. I often still don't.
No, that is covered by a different verse entirely:
Therefore God gave them over in the lusts of their hearts to impurity, that their bodies might be dishonored among them. (Romans 1:24)

Totally different idea. The former is controlled wholly by god, the later by our own nature.... and as to our nature, we go back to Isaiah above and lather, rinse, repeat.
 
Read it again. I explained what it meant immediately following.
God isn't an Indian giver.
He doesn't give gifts, and then turn around and take them away.
I know what you said, Steve

What I want you to do is explain how the statement
"The gifts and callings of God are without repentance" = God isn't an Indian giver?

You love your sin more than you love eternal life.
WRONG!

If it were a choice between:
Enjoying myself for a finite period of time and then suffering for eternity
OR
Short term self-abnegation followed by an eternity of bliss

I CHOOSE THE LATTER!

This, however, is NOT the choice at hand, Steve

as God says, you don't want to know him, you'll get exactly what you want.
I DO know Him

And I reject Him because He is not worthy of my devotion

A being who consciously and purposefully inflicts needless harm upon others is not worthy of anyone's devotion, Steve

why would I be THAT stupid?
i actually love life
I, too, love life

What I value even more, though, is living a righteous life

You're willing to toss your integrity aside and devote yourself to an immoral being
I am not

I am stupid in your estimation because you care more about quantity of life than you do quality of life
You care more about yourself than you do others

It's all about SteveB living forever and to hell with the harm that is done to his fellow man in the process...
 
You mean we all sin?
Yep, and the reason we all sin is because, following Adam's disobedience, YHWH/Jesus, in a hissy fit, decided that each and every human being to come be born utterly incapable of sinlessness

Again, it's called ORIGINAL SIN, stigs


Pretty pathetic how you continuously need an atheist to explain Christianity to you...
 
Yep, and the reason we all sin is because,..........................

............. DRUM ROLL, PLEASE................. we CHOOSE to.

following Adam's disobedience, YHWH/Jesus, in a hissy fit, decided that each and every human being to come be born utterly incapable of sinlessness

Yeah, you've said that about fifty times now. And every time you do, I ask for scriptural proof and you always come up empty-handed. And as we now see, this time is no exception.

Again, it's called ORIGINAL SIN, stigs

Scripture verses, please. And is that as opposed to "unoriginal sin?" No sin is original. Name one.

Pretty pathetic how you continuously need an atheist to explain Christianity to you...

You explaining Christianity would be like Richard Simmons explaining heterosexual romance.
 
Yeah, Romans 5:12

Well, let's take a look at it:

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned."

You were supposed to be showing us that Jesus "DECIDED that each and every human being to come be born utterly incapable of sinlessness."

Nothing about anyone's decision, much less Jesus'. Little buddy, ya done screwed up again.


You're not going to be able to censor me just because you get angry at your own failures. Maybe you're just not cut out for this "atheist with integrity" role you've been trying so hard to cultivate.
 
I know what you said, Steve

What I want you to do is explain how the statement
"The gifts and callings of God are without repentance" = God isn't an Indian giver?
Sounds like you need a dictionary.
It was a common colloquiallism in the 60's (my childhood years) throughout the mid 80's... in my neck of the woods.

Definition of: 'Indian giver' is: ''. Learn more at: 'https://www.dictionary.com/browse/indian-giver'





According to the guy who loves his sin more than he loves the truth.

If it were a choice between:
Enjoying myself for a finite period of time and then suffering for eternity
OR
Short term self-abnegation followed by an eternity of bliss

I CHOOSE THE LATTER!
if that's the truth, then turn to YHVH from your sin and place your trust in Jesus Christ.
This, however, is NOT the choice at hand, Steve
This is exactly the choice.

your entire sin debt owed by you to YHVH himself can be immediately wiped out by trusting Jesus to take your place in judgment and your sin nature can be overwritten by the new nature given to us by Jesus and the Holy Spirit, through the scriptures and you can be adopted by God as a son/daughter, depending on your biological gender.

So, if you really want paradise forever, then turn to YHVH from your sin and place your trust in Jesus.



I DO know Him
Obviously not.
And I reject Him because He is not worthy of my devotion
Then you'll have what you claim you do not want.

A being who consciously and purposefully inflicts needless harm upon others is not worthy of anyone's devotion, Steve
You're the one who is consciously and purposefully inflicting needless harm upon others.
So, you are not worthy of being taken seriously. Based entirely on your own words.

I, too, love life
Sure could have fooled me. For someone who is as malicious, malevolent and spews as much vitriol as you.... I see someone who despises life, and is desperate to destroy as many people as possible, and encourage them to destroy themselves.

Reminds me of what Jesus said in John 10.

Joh 10:10 WEB The thief only comes to steal, kill, and destroy. I came that they may have life, and may have it abundantly.

your longstanding, ongoing dedication to your malice is a perfect match to what Jesus said about the thief.
so much so that I've long wondered if you are possessed by the thieves.
What I value even more, though, is living a righteous life
living a righteous life apart from Jesus won't save you.
the only way to resolve the matter of your previously committed sin is to turn to YHVH from your sin and place your trust in Jesus Christ to pay the penalty of sin.

once you are born again, YHVH gives us His Spirit to cause us to keep his statutes and judgments.
as it's written in Ezekiel 36:27, and Romans 8:3-9.

You're willing to toss your integrity aside and devote yourself to an immoral being
to you he's immoral, because, as it's written in psalm 18:26, you are morally bankrupt.
actually, you are.
your longstanding, ongoing blasphemy against him, and all things holy demonstrates that you are morally bankrupt.

I am stupid in your estimation because you care more about quantity of life than you do quality of life
eternal life is the epitome of quality and quantity combined, as YHVH designed it to be.

And, I think this passage from Proverbs nails it too.

Scripture doesn’t limit its reasons against sin to “just because it’s wrong.” It also includes “because it’s stupid” since sin’s consequences are so severe. “For the simple are killed by their turning away, and the complacency of fools destroys them; but whoever listens to me will dwell secure and will be at ease, without dread of disaster” (Proverbs 1:32-33, ESV).




You care more about yourself than you do others
If that was true, I would be living on a tropical island and not spending time on this forum, reasoning with you and others.

It's all about SteveB living forever and to hell with the harm that is done to his fellow man in the process...
Considering that Jesus said you would make such accusations, I consider this a compliment to the highest order.

Mat 5:10-12 WEB 10 Blessed are those who have been persecuted for righteousness’ sake, for theirs is the Kingdom of Heaven. 11 “Blessed are you when people reproach you, persecute you, and say all kinds of evil against you falsely, for my sake. 12 Rejoice, and be exceedingly glad, for great is your reward in heaven. For that is how they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

Mat 10:24-26 WEB 24 “A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his lord. 25 It is enough for the disciple that he be like his teacher, and the servant like his lord. If they have called the master of the house Beelzebul, how much more those of his household! 26 Therefore don’t be afraid of them, for there is nothing covered that will not be revealed, or hidden that will not be known.

Joh 15:18-27 WEB 18 If the world hates you, you know that it has hated me before it hated you. 19 If you were of the world, the world would love its own. But because you are not of the world, since I chose you out of the world, therefore the world hates you. 20 Remember the word that I said to you: ‘A servant is not greater than his lord.’ If they persecuted me, they will also persecute you. If they kept my word, they will also keep yours. 21 But they will do all these things to you for my name’s sake, because they don’t know him who sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not have had sin; but now they have no excuse for their sin. 23 He who hates me, hates my Father also. 24 If I hadn’t done among them the works which no one else did, they wouldn’t have had sin. But now they have seen and also hated both me and my Father. 25 But this happened so that the word may be fulfilled which was written in their law, ‘They hated me without a cause.’ 26 “When the Counselor has come, whom I will send to you from the Father, the Spirit of truth, who proceeds from the Father, he will testify about me. 27 You will also testify, because you have been with me from the beginning.
 
Needs updating.
Hell is dark, 1 John 1:5, God is light.

There's only death in hell because God is life, John 1:4

There's only hatred in hell because 1 John 4:16 says God is love.

There's no mercy in hell because Psalm 36:5 says God's mercies are in the heavens

There's no strength in hell because Psalm 18:32 says God gives us strength.

There's no water in hell because Deuteronomy 11:11 says water is the rain of heaven.

There's no peace in hell because Isaiah 9:6 says God is the prince of peace.

There's no understanding, wisdom or knowledge in hell because God gives all three, Proverbs 2:6, Ecclesiastes 2:26, Daniel 2:21.

There's no joy in hell because God gives joy. Ecclesiastes 2:26, Galatians 5:22.

There is no satisfaction in hell because God gives all to enjoy, and be satisfied with. Joel 2:19, 26

There is no comfort in hell because God is comfort. 2 Corinthians 1:3-7.

There are none of the things that make life worthwhile, because God gives all, Acts 14:17.

There is no encouragement in hell because God is the God of encouragement, Romans 15:5

There is no hope in hell because God gives us hope through the scriptures. Romans 15:4.

So, if God removes himself from the situation, all the good goes with him.

You can't have the good without God.

You can't separate the two.

So, if you're the person who says- "I don't want anything to do with God,"

Fine.

There's a place prepared that has nothing to do with him.

It's known as hell and later, the lake of fire.

Neither God, nor we who follow Jesus want you to spend your eternity there. It's why Jesus came.

As it's written,

Joh 3:16-17 WEB 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only born Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish, but have eternal life. 17 For God didn’t send his Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world should be saved through him.

Please. Come follow Jesus.

Everything that pertains to life and godliness are with God.

It's described as paradise because in God, Everything that makes life worthwhile, enjoyable, satisfying, God is and gives.
 
Sounds like you need a dictionary.
It was a common colloquiallism in the 60's (my childhood years) throughout the mid 80's... in my neck of the woods.

Definition of: 'Indian giver' is: ''. Learn more at: 'https://www.dictionary.com/browse/indian-giver'

I know what an 'indian giver' is, Steve

Try real hard to understand this:

What I want to know is how you get
"God isn't an indian giver"
from
"The gifts and callings of God are without repentance"

What, exactly, does the latter statement mean?

According to the guy who loves his sin more than he loves the truth.
Being as how you changed your mind to automatically agree with God's word on all things that He says matters - you don't even know what you think, much less what I think!

This is exactly the choice.
For you, yes
Not for me, though

I value my integrity more than I value my eternity
I am not the sniveling coward that you are

to you he's immoral, because, as it's written in psalm 18:26, you are morally bankrupt.
Wrong again, Steve

To US He is immoral and it's because He consciously and purposefully inflicts needless harm upon others - something that you and I know better than to do ourselves

Were you not soo terrified of the monster that you profess to love you'd be able to admit as much to yourself

your longstanding, ongoing blasphemy against him, and all things holy demonstrates that you are morally bankrupt.
Close, but not quite...

It's actually YOU and YOUR ongoing devotion to Him and all things Holy that demonstrates that YOU are morally bankrupt, Steve!

You don't think for yourself
You just follow orders - blindly trusting that it is righteous to do so

You choose His judgement over your own, better, judgement
 
I know what an 'indian giver' is, Steve

Try real hard to understand this:

What I want to know is how you get
"God isn't an indian giver"
from
"The gifts and callings of God are without repentance"

What, exactly, does the latter statement mean?
God gives his gifts without changing his mind about having given them.

If you lose the gift it's because you rejected the gift.

Being as how you changed your mind to automatically agree with God's word on all things that He says matters - you don't even know what you think, much less what I think!
Must be absolutely terrifying to consider that YHVH himself gives perfect peace, or shalom shalom, when we focus our thinking on things that He says matters.
And such shalom shalom affords us a calmness and clarity of thought that we can think with greater clarity and understanding.

Isa 30:15 WEB For thus said the Lord Yahweh, the Holy One of Israel, “You will be saved in returning and rest. Your strength will be in quietness and in confidence.” You refused,

Isa 32:17 WEB The work of righteousness will be peace, and the effect of righteousness, quietness and confidence forever.

This level of calmness and peacefulness gives us the wherewithal to be able to comprehend what others say, even when they think they are right, we're able to recognize their wrongness.

so... you, yes. Your words are very clear.
if you don't like it, choose your wording more carefully.
Not for me, though
pity. You really should choose life. Your ongoing love affair with death is destroying you and your humanity.


I value my integrity more than I value my eternity
I am not the sniveling coward that you are
I'm curious if you fathom what you're doing here Tree.
Everytime you think you're slicing and dicing me up, it's yourself you're injuring, and causing harm to.

Wrong again, Steve
Trying to be tyrannical again? Telling me this so frequently only shows that it's you who wants to be right, but is dedicating yourself to your madness and malice.
To US He is immoral and it's because He consciously and purposefully inflicts needless harm upon others - something that you and I know better than to do ourselves
Except he never has done what you want him to have done.
Jesus said,
Joh 10:10 WEB The thief only comes to steal, kill, and destroy. I came that they may have life, and may have it abundantly.

The thief is the devil. All the unnecessary harm you complain about... the god you are following- the destroyer, abbadon, the serpent of old... the blame lies squarely on his shoulders.
the sad thing is.... you've bought his lies, hook line and sinker.

Jesus warned about his deceptions millennia ago.

Joh 8:44 WEB You are of your father the devil, and you want to do the desires of your father. He was a murderer from the beginning, and doesn’t stand in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaks a lie, he speaks on his own; for he is a liar, and the father of lies.

Were you not soo terrified of the monster that you profess to love you'd be able to admit as much to yourself
That's just it.... he's given me life. As you continue to choose death, and are morally bankrupt, you view life as death and refuse to understand why life is so much better.
Close, but not quite...

It's actually YOU and YOUR ongoing devotion to Him and all things Holy that demonstrates that YOU are morally bankrupt, Steve!
Well, that is what is written in psalm 18.
Psa 18:25-26 ISV 25 To the holy, you show your gracious love, to the upright, you show yourself upright; 26 to the pure, you show yourself pure, and to the morally corrupt, you appear to be perverse.

You don't think for yourself
You just follow orders - blindly trusting that it is righteous to do so

You choose His judgement over your own, better, judgement
My better judgment got me stage four metastatic melanoma cancer, shot in the throat, beat to a pulp by a biker gang, and serious financial problems, cost me a really nice home, several well paying jobs, etc...

So, your level of ignorance is astonishing.
 
God gives his gifts without changing his mind about having given them.
You keep describing what it means to be or not to be an 'indian giver'
Something I already know!

Listen very carefully, Steve

What I want to know is what you think the following statement means:

"The gifts and callings of God are without repentance"?

Must be absolutely terrifying to consider that YHVH himself gives perfect peace, or shalom shalom, when we focus our thinking on things that He says matters.
Terrifying?
No

More like sickening

You really should choose life. Your ongoing love affair with death is destroying you and your humanity.
You really should choose integrity
Your ongoing love affair with eternal life is destroying your humanity

Trying to be tyrannical again?
How come when I tell you that you are wrong I am being tyrannical, but when you constantly tell me that I am wrong you're not being tyrannical?

You don't even understand what tyranny and/or tyrants are, Steve!

I say:
"You're wrong, Steve, and I am going try and convince you to change your mind"

YHVH/Jesus says:
"You're wrong, tree, and I am going to subject you to eternal torture if you don't change your mind"

Except he never has done what you want him to have done.
Yes, He has!

God chooses that good and decent human beings who die having innocently not recognized Jesus as Lord will go to Hell and be burned and tortured in unimaginable agony and torment for ever and ever

This is the very epitome of a conscious and purposeful infliction of needless harm
 
Back
Top