When a Roman Catholic Pope Dies . . . .

[RayneBeau]

In Italy, when a pope dies, great big huge posters are plastered on the walls of all the surrounding cities calling people to pray for his soul because the Roman Catholic Church teaches and believes that their deceased pope is suffering in purgatory. Quite frankly, Roman Catholicism cannot save even it's own popes. So for all of you posters and lurkers alike, if you are trusting in that religious system for your salvation, you should fervently hope for one of 2 things:

*That the Bible is wrong about how one is saved.
*That you are a better Roman Catholic than the popes.

Face the truth though: The Bible is NOT wrong, and you probably are NOT a better Roman Catholic than the popes. The wonderful good news is that God offers salvation in His Son for sinners that have NOT earned it!

 

[mica]

In Italy, when a pope dies, great big huge posters are plastered on the walls of all the surrounding cities calling people to pray for his soul because the Roman Catholic Church teaches and believes that their deceased pope is suffering in purgatory. Quite frankly, Roman Catholicism cannot save even it's own popes. So for all of you posters and lurkers alike, if you are trusting in that religious system for your salvation, you should fervently hope for one of 2 things:

*That the Bible is wrong about how one is saved.
*That you are a better Roman Catholic than the popes.

Face the truth though: The Bible is NOT wrong, and you probably are NOT a better Roman Catholic than the popes. The wonderful good news is that God offers salvation in His Son for sinners that have NOT earned it!

Amen!

 

[jonathan_hili]

In Italy, when a pope dies, great big huge posters are plastered on the walls of all the surrounding cities calling people to pray for his soul because the Roman Catholic Church teaches and believes that their deceased pope is suffering in purgatory.

The Catholic Church doesn't teach that any specific person is suffering in purgatory, so it doesn't teach that any specific deceased pope is suffering in purgatory.

Quite frankly, Roman Catholicism cannot save even it's own popes.

Christ Jesus saves.

So for all of you posters and lurkers alike, if you are trusting in that religious system for your salvation, you should fervently hope for one of 2 things:

*That the Bible is wrong about how one is saved.
*That you are a better Roman Catholic than the popes.

On the two points:
* The Bible isn't wrong.
* We should all hope to be saints.

Face the truth though: The Bible is NOT wrong, and you probably are NOT a better Roman Catholic than the popes. The wonderful good news is that God offers salvation in His Son for sinners that have NOT earned it!

I know the Bible's not wrong. Catholics don't believe you earn salvation.

Please "face the truth" of what the Church actually teaches rather than posting falsity. If what you are saying is true, can you please substantiate it with evidence?

 

[RayneBeau]

The Catholic Church doesn't teach that any specific person is suffering in purgatory, so it doesn't teach that any specific deceased pope is suffering in purgatory.

Christ Jesus saves.

On the two points:
* The Bible isn't wrong.
* We should all hope to be saints.

I know the Bible's not wrong. Catholics don't believe you earn salvation.

Please "face the truth" of what the Church actually teaches rather than posting falsity. If what you are saying is true, can you please substantiate it with evidence?

How is it that if a Roman Catholic person actually accepts God's free gift of salvation, fully believing in God's Son Jesus Christ as their personal Savior, that upon death that person that person may still have to spend time in a 'sin-cleansing' place that the Roman Catholic Church dubs as "purgatory"?

Bottom Line: The Roman Catholic Church's kind of salvation and forgiveness leaves even it's best popes suffering in the flames of Purgatory, as payment for their sins, for some undetermined length of time, which the Roman Catholic Church further teaches, believes and claims can be shortened by almsgiving, masses and prayers, hence the huge posters that are plastered on the walls of all the surrounding cities of Rome calling for people to pray for the pope's soul, strictly because the Roman Catholic Church specifically teaches and believes in purgatory, and calls attention to the fact that their deceased pope is suffering there.

 

[jonathan_hili]

How is it that if a Roman Catholic person actually accepts God's free gift of salvation, fully believing in God's Son Jesus Christ as their personal Savior, that upon death that person that person may still have to spend time in a 'sin-cleansing' place that the Roman Catholic Church dubs as "purgatory"?

Because even if we accept God's gift of salvation most of us are not fully sanctified in this life. Do you believe we have to change ontologically to be in heaven (that is, develop characters where we will not want to sin, be morally righteous, etc.)?

Bottom Line: The Roman Catholic Church's kind of salvation and forgiveness leaves even it's best popes suffering in the flames of Purgatory, as payment for their sins, for some undetermined length of time, which the Roman Catholic Church further teaches, believes and claims can be shortened by almsgiving, masses and prayers, hence the huge posters that are plastered on the walls of all the surrounding cities of Rome calling for people to pray for the pope's soul, strictly because the Roman Catholic Church specifically teaches and believes in purgatory, and calls attention to the fact that their deceased pope is suffering there.

Do you think we will be purified after we die or at the moment of our death, that is our final and everlasting ontological state?

 

[RayneBeau]

As a Roman Catholic do you believe that salvation is God's gift to man?

As a Roman Catholic do you believe that all man must do to receive a gift is to accept it like it says in Ephesians 2: 8,9?

As a Roman Catholic do you believe that God's gift of salvation means to accept His Son because "God gave us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. Whoever possesses the Son possesses life; whoever does not possess the Son of God does not possess life . . . (1 John 5:11-12)?

 

[jonathan_hili]

As a Roman Catholic do you believe that salvation is God's gift to man?

Yes.

As a Roman Catholic do you believe that all man must do to receive a gift is to accept it like it says in Ephesians 2: 8,9?

Yes.

As a Roman Catholic do you believe that God's gift of salvation means to accept His Son because "God gave us eternal life, and this life is in His Son. Whoever possesses the Son possesses life; whoever does not possess the Son of God does not possess life . . . (1 John 5:11-12)?

Yes.

 

[leonard03782]

Because even if we accept God's gift of salvation most of us are not fully sanctified in this life. Do you believe we have to change ontologically to be in heaven (that is, develop characters where we will not want to sin, be morally righteous, etc.)?

Do you think we will be purified after we die or at the moment of our death, that is our final and everlasting ontological state?

Setting aside the eschatolgical argument, where does this set of verses say anything about making a side trip to purgatory along the way? If those who are living at the time this happens, get to go straight to heaven, why should we believe that the dead in Christ would be treated differently?

1Thessalonians 4:

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Corinthians 15:

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

 

[jonathan_hili]

Setting aside the eschatolgical argument, where does this set of verses say anything about making a side trip to purgatory along the way? If those who are living at the time this happens, get to go straight to heaven, why should we believe that the dead in Christ would be treated differently?

1Thessalonians 4:

15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep.

16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1 Corinthians 15:

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

54 So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory.

1 Corinthians 15 does mention being changed "in the twinkling of an eye" or "in a moment". That does suggest that something ontologically happens to us at the point of death and at the point of the full presence of God.

 

[mica]

1 Corinthians 15 does mention being changed "in the twinkling of an eye" or "in a moment". That does suggest that something ontologically happens to us at the point of death and at the point of the full presence of God.

is it speaking about what happens at the point of death?

1 Corinthians 15:

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

 

[jonathan_hili]

is it speaking about what happens at the point of death?

1 Corinthians 15:

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Well, it is talking about the dead being raised, so either it's at the point of death or after that point that the change occurs (at least for the people Paul is talking about).

 

[mica]

1 Corinthians 15:

52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

Well, it is talking about the dead being raised, so either it's at the point of death or after that point that the change occurs (at least for the people Paul is talking about).

it tells us when.

 

[jonathan_hili]

it tells us when.

Fine. And? Whether purgatory happens for people "now" relative to our time or "at the end of time" relative to our time, it still happens.

 

[mica]

Fine. And? Whether purgatory happens for people "now" relative to our time or "at the end of time" relative to our time, it still happens.

it would first need to be real and exist. it is neither of those.

 

[Rotgold]

In Italy, when a pope dies, great big huge posters are plastered on the walls of all the surrounding cities calling people to pray for his soul because the Roman Catholic Church teaches and believes that their deceased pope is suffering in purgatory.

It is a common Italian custom.
Not for Popes only.

 

[balshan]

In Italy, when a pope dies, great big huge posters are plastered on the walls of all the surrounding cities calling people to pray for his soul because the Roman Catholic Church teaches and believes that their deceased pope is suffering in purgatory. Quite frankly, Roman Catholicism cannot save even it's own popes. So for all of you posters and lurkers alike, if you are trusting in that religious system for your salvation, you should fervently hope for one of 2 things:

*That the Bible is wrong about how one is saved.
*That you are a better Roman Catholic than the popes.

Face the truth though: The Bible is NOT wrong, and you probably are NOT a better Roman Catholic than the popes. The wonderful good news is that God offers salvation in His Son for sinners that have NOT earned it!

Hmm to be made a saint, a pope supposedly must perform miracles. Can he do that from purgatory?

 

[leonard03782]

Well, it is talking about the dead being raised, so either it's at the point of death or after that point that the change occurs (at least for the people Paul is talking about).

If the living go straight to heaven w/o going to purgatory, why would the dead have to go just because they died?

 

[jonathan_hili]

If the living go straight to heaven w/o going to purgatory, why would the dead have to go just because they died?

How do you know the living will go straight to heaven without purgatory?

 

[Timket]

In Italy, when a pope dies, great big huge posters are plastered on the walls of all the surrounding cities calling people to pray for his soul because the Roman Catholic Church teaches and believes that their deceased pope is suffering in purgatory. Quite frankly, Roman Catholicism cannot save even it's own popes. So for all of you posters and lurkers alike, if you are trusting in that religious system for your salvation, you should fervently hope for one of 2 things:

*That the Bible is wrong about how one is saved.
*That you are a better Roman Catholic than the popes.

Face the truth though: The Bible is NOT wrong, and you probably are NOT a better Roman Catholic than the popes. The wonderful good news is that God offers salvation in His Son for sinners that have NOT earned it!

Rayne, I'm glad you titled this thread "When a Roman Catholic Pope dies". For a second I thought you were talking about the Jewish Popes, or the Baptist Popes.

 

[Rotgold]

Hmm to be made a saint, a pope supposedly must perform miracles. Can he do that from purgatory?

Like Obama I say: "Yes, he can!"

Or: "Yes, she can!" - in case of a female Pope!