WHEN did God bring his firstborn into the world?

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Hebrews 1:6 NIV... And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”

My question...

WHEN did God bring his firstborn into the world?

Trinitarian commenataries like Matthew Henry's and Jamieson, Fausset & Brown's give several possible answers...
A) at Jesus' birth
B) at Jesus' baptism
C) at Jesus' resurrection
D) at Jesus' ascension
E) at Jesus' second coming
F) other, please explain

I believe "when" in Hebrews 1:6 is referring to...
F) the instant God created the supernatural and space-time of this universe


P.S. Are you able to post an overview of what you believe? Here is mine...

For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Word of God) with a glorious body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created a human spirit and soul for each of us, God himself as the Word became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
 

eternomade

Active member
WHEN did God bring his firstborn into the world?

Trinitarian commenataries like Matthew Henry's and Jamieson, Fausset & Brown's give several possible answers...
A) at Jesus' birth
B) at Jesus' baptism
C) at Jesus' resurrection
D) at Jesus' ascension
E) at Jesus' second coming
F) other, please explain
Hi Yahchristian, good to see you.

I think Hebrews 1:6 is referring to Revelation 1:5, so C.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Hi Yahchristian, good to see you.

I think Hebrews 1:6 is referring to Revelation 1:5, so C.

Hebrews 1:5 NIV... For to which of the angels did God ever say, “You are my Son; today I have become your Father”? Or again, “I will be his Father, and he will be my Son”?

WHEN does "today" in Hebrews 1:5 refer to?

A) Jesus' birth
B) Jesus' baptism
C) Jesus' resurrection
D) Jesus' ascension
E) Jesus' second coming
F) other, please explain

I believe "today" in Hebrews 1:5 refers to the same moment as "when" in Hebrews 1:6...
F) the instant God created the supernatural and space-time of this universe
 

Stephen

Active member
Hebrews 1:6 And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”

Applying Galatians 4:1-2, I don't think the angels worshipped at his birth, because the son is no different than the other servants until the time set by his father. It would have to be after the glorification according to this principle.

Noting that Heb 1:6 is a quotation of Deut 32:43

Deut 32:43 Let all God’s angels worship him.
for he will avenge the blood of his servants;
he will take vengeance on his enemies
and make atonement for his land and people.

This doesn't sound like his birth where the angels were present, but rather at his return when he takes the land.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Hebrews 1:6 NIV... And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”

My question...

WHEN did God bring his firstborn into the world?

Trinitarian commenataries like Matthew Henry's and Jamieson, Fausset & Brown's give several possible answers...
A) at Jesus' birth
B) at Jesus' baptism
C) at Jesus' resurrection
D) at Jesus' ascension
E) at Jesus' second coming
F) other, please explain

I believe "when" in Hebrews 1:6 is referring to...
F) the instant God created the supernatural and space-time of this universe


P.S. Are you able to post an overview of what you believe? Here is mine...

For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Word of God) with a glorious body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created a human spirit and soul for each of us, God himself as the Word became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.

The context demonstrates the answer is obviously D - when he sat down at the right hand of God.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
I believe "when" in Hebrews 1:6 is referring to...
F) the instant God created the supernatural and space-time of this universe
I think Hebrews 1:6 is referring to Revelation 1:5, so C.
This doesn't sound like his birth where the angels were present, but rather at his return when he takes the land.
The context demonstrates the answer is obviously D - when he sat down at the right hand of God.

So far we have a C, D, E, and F all from non-Trinitarians.

So are there any TRINITARIANS who are able and willing to answer the question...

WHEN did God bring his firstborn into the world (Hebrews 1:6)?

Hebrews 1:6 NIV... And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”

TRINITARIAN commenataries like Matthew Henry's and Jamieson, Fausset & Brown's give several possible answers...
A) at Jesus' birth
B) at Jesus' baptism
C) at Jesus' resurrection
D) at Jesus' ascension
E) at Jesus' second coming
F) other, please explain
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
So far we have a C, D, E, and F all from non-Trinitarians.

So are there any TRINITARIANS who are able and willing to answer the question...

WHEN did God bring his firstborn into the world (Hebrews 1:6)?

Hebrews 1:6 NIV... And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”

TRINITARIAN commenataries like Matthew Henry's and Jamieson, Fausset & Brown's give several possible answers...
A) at Jesus' birth
B) at Jesus' baptism
C) at Jesus' resurrection
D) at Jesus' ascension
E) at Jesus' second coming
F) other, please explain
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
So are there any TRINITARIANS who are able and willing to answer the question...

WHEN did God bring his firstborn into the world (Hebrews 1:6)?

Hebrews 1:6 NIV... And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”

TRINITARIAN commenataries like Matthew Henry's and Jamieson, Fausset & Brown's give several possible answers...
A) at Jesus' birth
B) at Jesus' baptism
C) at Jesus' resurrection
D) at Jesus' ascension
E) at Jesus' second coming
F) other, please explain
A) is the only possible answer.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
A) is the only possible answer.

Just to clarify...

You say it was not (F) at Jesus' conception.

Correct?


Here was the question...

WHEN did God bring his firstborn into the world (Hebrews 1:6)?

Hebrews 1:6 NIV... And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”

TRINITARIAN commenataries like Matthew Henry's and Jamieson, Fausset & Brown's give several possible answers...
A) at Jesus' birth
B) at Jesus' baptism
C) at Jesus' resurrection
D) at Jesus' ascension
E) at Jesus' second coming
F) other, please explain
 

johnny guitar

Well-known member
Just to clarify...

You say it was not (F) at Jesus' conception.

Correct?



Here was the question...

WHEN did God bring his firstborn into the world (Hebrews 1:6)?

Hebrews 1:6 NIV... And again, when God brings his firstborn into the world, he says, “Let all God’s angels worship him.”

TRINITARIAN commenataries like Matthew Henry's and Jamieson, Fausset & Brown's give several possible answers...
A) at Jesus' birth
B) at Jesus' baptism
C) at Jesus' resurrection
D) at Jesus' ascension
E) at Jesus' second coming
F) other, please explain
A). Jesus came into the world at His birth.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
A). Jesus came into the world at His birth.

But you also said...
From His conception Jesus has had the fullness of The Godhead dwelling in Him bodily.

So you believe "Jesus has had the fullness of The Godhead dwelling in Him bodily" since his conception...

And then 40 weeks later "Jesus came into the world at His birth".

Just to clarify your Trinitarian view...

1) Was Jesus ALIVE those 40 weeks?
2) WHEN do you believe LIFE begins?
3) WHERE was Jesus those 40 weeks if NOT in the world?
 

Tanachreader

Active member
But you also said...


So you believe "Jesus has had the fullness of The Godhead dwelling in Him bodily" since his conception...

And then 40 weeks later "Jesus came into the world at His birth".

Just to clarify your Trinitarian view...

1) Was Jesus ALIVE those 40 weeks?
2) WHEN do you believe LIFE begins?
3) WHERE was Jesus those 40 weeks if NOT in the world?
4) How did God create the Universe?
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
4) How did God create the Universe?

God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God.


Now are YOU able to answer the question from the OP...
WHEN did God bring his firstborn into the world?


A) at Jesus' birth
B) at Jesus' baptism
C) at Jesus' resurrection
D) at Jesus' ascension
E) at Jesus' second coming
F) other, please explain


P.S.

We have only had one Trinitarian answer so far. They said A) at Jesus' birth rather than F) at Jesus' conception.

I believe "when" in Hebrews 1:6 is referring to F) the instant God created the supernatural and space-time of this universe.

Here is an overview of what I believe...

For this creation, YHWH God (the only one who transcends all creations) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans (living souls) for his glory where he would reign as a living soul himself. The Scriptures describe how God would accomplish his plan. In an instant, transcendent God (called God the Father) created the supernatural and space-time of this universe and also became immanent as a spirit (called the Spirit of God) and in the form of a living soul (called the Word of God) with a glorious body. God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Word of God. But whereas God created a human spirit and soul for each of us, God himself as the Word became the human spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
 

Tanachreader

Active member
Do you mean "How did Jesus Christ's God create the Universe"?
The Trinity In Creation
By H. M. Morris PH.D

“In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light” (Genesis 1:1–3).
These incomparable words open God’s written revelation to man, telling us how our Time/Space/Matter universe came to exist. No other religious writings, ancient or modern, do this. All others begin with the assumption of an eternal, self-existing universe. The truth is, however, that the eternal, self-existing, transcendent, omnipotent Triune God simply called the universe into being by His word. “By the word of the LORD were the heavens made. . . . For He spake, and it was done” (Psalm 33:6,9).
The Hebrew for “God” is the uni-plural Elohim, a plural noun (as noted by the “im” ending), yet normally represented by a singular pronoun “He.” This is the first foreshadowing of the marvelous doctrine of the Trinity—only one Creator God, yet functioning as three divine Persons. It is significant that His created universe is actually a tri-universe, with each of its distinct components (“beginning” = time; “heaven” = space; “earth” = matter) comprising and pervading the whole universe. Just as the Father is the source and background of all being, so space is the background of all that happens in the physical universe. Just as the Son manifests and speaks for the Father, so matter manifests and functions in space. Just as the Spirit interprets and energizes the Son and the Father in human experience, so space and matter are interpreted and experienced in phenomena operating in time.
The Father planned the work of creation, the Son did the work (“all things were made by Him”—John 1:3), and the Spirit energized it (“the Spirit of God moved”). The Triune God created and now sustains our tri-universe!
 

Tanachreader

Active member
Since TRINITARIANS say God is one WHAT, three WHOs...

Which one of the three WHOs does "He" in Psalm 33:9 refer to?

In other words, WHO spake?
The psalmist probably David Speaks of God the Son The Word of God his Lord who loves righteousness who speaks and it is done.

5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.

6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

If we were to look at the Scriptures in Genesis, we would find that actually the Father, Word, and Holy Spirit were all involved in the creation of the heavens and the earth and all that are therein. Breath in verse 6 above, means Spirit. The Word of God is also, Creator.

Hebrews 1:8 (KJV)
But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.If we were to look at the Scriptures in Genesis, we would find that actually the Father, Word, and Holy Spirit were all involved in the creation of the heavens and the earth and all that are therein. Breath in verse 6 above, means Spirit. The Word of God is also, Creator.
Hebrews 1:9 (KJV)
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
The psalmist probably David Speaks of God the Son The Word of God his Lord who loves righteousness who speaks and it is done.

5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of the LORD.

6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

If we were to look at the Scriptures in Genesis, we would find that actually the Father, Word, and Holy Spirit were all involved in the creation of the heavens and the earth and all that are therein. Breath in verse 6 above, means Spirit. The Word of God is also, Creator.

Hebrews 1:8 (KJV)
But unto the Son [he saith], Thy throne, O God, [is] for ever and ever: a sceptre of righteousness [is] the sceptre of thy kingdom.If we were to look at the Scriptures in Genesis, we would find that actually the Father, Word, and Holy Spirit were all involved in the creation of the heavens and the earth and all that are therein. Breath in verse 6 above, means Spirit. The Word of God is also, Creator.
Hebrews 1:9 (KJV)
Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, [even] thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
The same was in the beginning with God.
All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.

My question was... WHO spake in Psalm 33:9?

You say it was... The Word of God

So does every reference to Yahweh (the LORD in English Bibles) in Psalm 33 refer to the second Person of the Trinity?
 

Tanachreader

Active member
My question was... WHO spake in Psalm 33:9?

You say it was... The Word of God

So does every reference to Yahweh (the LORD in English Bibles) in Psalm 33 refer to the second Person of the Trinity?
All things were made by the word of the Lord and by the breath of his mouth. Christ is the Word, the Spirit is the breath, so that God the Father made the world, as he rules it and redeems it, by his Son and Spirit.

The psalm is a praise to God.
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
All things were made by the word of the Lord and by the breath of his mouth. Christ is the Word, the Spirit is the breath, so that God the Father made the world, as he rules it and redeems it, by his Son and Spirit.

The psalm is a praise to God.

Did God not create the heavens and earth by SPEAKING HIS WORD?
 
Top