When did Pentecostals stop teaching holiness???

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
Pentecostals came out of the Wesleyan holiness movement started by John Wesley. But today's Pentecostal denominations are teaching the same heresies the other denominations teach - that we will always sin and have this old carnal nature until we die. That is not scriptural!!!

Romans 6:6-7
6 knowing this, that our old man was crucified with Him, that the body of sin might be done away with, that we should no longer be slaves of sin. 7 For he who has died has been freed from sin.

Read 1 John 3 the whole chapter!

I've even seen people teach that 1 John 1:6, 8 and 10 are about Christians. Wake up folks. Born again Christians do not commit sin. And the addition of the word "practice" is not in the original. Those of us who keep on sinning believing that we are positionally righteous in Jesus are fooling ourselves and have itching ears. If you don't want to loose your head in the soon coming Great Tribulation better ask Jesus to change your nature to His with a true filling of the Holy Spirit before it is too late and you die in our sins. Matthew 7:21-23
 

RiJoRi

Well-known member
In reply to the post's title, I'd say a generation or two after outward dress and actions replaced the inward holiness God desires. Many "holiness" church-goers judged others based on what they wore rather than on their heart condition. That is, making your family suffer hell on earth was fine, as long as you didn't wear red or use makeup.

Of course, being human, we can swing too far in the other direction as well! (UN-holiness movement?)

Jes' ma two scents!
--Rich
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
In reply to the post's title, I'd say a generation or two after outward dress and actions replaced the inward holiness God desires. Many "holiness" church-goers judged others based on what they wore rather than on their heart condition. That is, making your family suffer hell on earth was fine, as long as you didn't wear red or use makeup.

Of course, being human, we can swing too far in the other direction as well! (UN-holiness movement?)

Jes' ma two scents!
--Rich

I'm not talking about outward dress. I'm talking about replacing real holiness with only "positional" holiness.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
Then there is no such thing as a born again Christian.

Of course there is. But itching ears have sought out teachers to tell them they are okay the way they are. They don't teach that Jesus came to TAKE AWAY the desire to sin. Jesus talked of either taking the high road you've chosen, or the narrow path, and few there are that find it. Today the Church is filled with lukewarm Christians.
 
Last edited:

CrowCross

Super Member
Of course there is. But itching ears have sought out teachers to tell them they are okay the way they are. They don't teach that Jesus came to TAKE AWAY the desire to sin. Jesus talked of either taking the high road you've chosen, or the narrow path, and few there are that find it. Today the Church is filled with lukewarm Christians.
I don't disagree. Many Christians are double minded. Never the less, they are still Christians.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
I don't disagree. Many Christians are double minded. Never the less, they are still Christians.
The Great Tribulation is very soon; I believe, a matter or weeks, not years. So those lukewarm Christians will have to loose their heads in this time of testing. Tribulation is not wrath, and pre-trib rapture is for itching ears. Sinners will not be allowed in heaven.
 
Last edited:

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Of course there is. But itching ears have sought out teachers to tell them they are okay the way they are. They don't teach that Jesus came to TAKE AWAY the desire to sin. Jesus talked of either taking the high road you've chosen, or the narrow path, and few there are that find it. Today the Church is filled with lukewarm Christians.
There is no Scripture that says Jesus came to take away the desire to sin, that is you reading your heresy into Scripture and blaming it on Jesus.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
Arn't you glad the rapture is pre-trib?

It's not. Tribulation is the great testing when the beast goes after lukewarm Christians to test them and they will need to chose unto death. They are described as those who keep the commandments of God, and have faith in Jesus. Revelation 12:17:

17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman (Israel), and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (That is the first 3.5 years of the GT. And the beast will continue for an additional 3.5 years, but this time with saved Israel who were unblinded during the first 3.5 years. Prophesied in Romans 11:25-27.

Wrath is later than that.
 

CrowCross

Super Member
It's not. Tribulation is the great testing when the beast goes after lukewarm Christians to test them and they will need to chose unto death. They are described as those who keep the commandments of God, and have faith in Jesus. Revelation 12:17:

17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman (Israel), and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. (That is the first 3.5 years of the GT. And the beast will continue for an additional 3.5 years, but this time with saved Israel who were unblinded during the first 3.5 years. Prophesied in Romans 11:25-27.

Wrath is later than that.
The tribulation is post rapture where God is dealing with the Jews.
Yes, there will be tribulation saints after the rapture who will have to endure much.
jesus comes back twice...the first time in the air for the resurrection and Christians who have not died.
Then a second time riding a white horse and standing on the earth.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
The tribulation is post rapture where God is dealing with the Jews.
Yes, there will be tribulation saints after the rapture who will have to endure much.
jesus comes back twice...the first time in the air for the resurrection and Christians who have not died.
Then a second time riding a white horse and standing on the earth.
You've got dealing with the Jews correct. But you are not putting the rest together. The woman in Revelation 12 is the Jews, right? Well digest this about the first half of the GT 7 years.:

13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. (This is when their blindness is lifted and "all Israel is saved." Romans 11.) 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ. CC, this is in the first half of the Great Tribulation, so Christians are still here and are persecuted regarding the mark of the beast. Then read the next chapter for the second half of the Great Tribulation.

Revelation 13:
5 And he was given a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies, and he was given authority to continue for forty-two months.

Yes, there will be tribulation saints after the rapture who will have to endure much.

That is impossible. Read the Scriptures. The Great Tribulation starts when the Antichrist is revealed. From here on only Jews will become Christians. Tribulation saints who are martyred during the GT were already Christians going into the GT. The rest of the Gentile world will be damned. 2 Thes. 2:8-12.

8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming (at the end of the GT - 7 years). 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
The restrainer is taken away...then anti-Christ revealed.

Yes. So what do we know through scripture that will happen once something is taken away. We already see that the Church is still on the earth during the two 3.5 period of years, so what is taken away? Couldn't it be that as Romans 11 says, that once the fullness of the Gentiles comes into the Church which will be full immediately before the beginning of the Great Tribulation and Antichrist, that then the blindness of Israel will be taken away which had been restraining them from becoming saved? Yes, indeed. If you have another idea, make sure it is based on what Scripture says, and not some fable taught by man. Also the Holy Spirit is omnipresent, so He can't be taken away. He will never leave us, nor forsake us, for He is the Spirit of Christ. Romans 8:9
 

CrowCross

Super Member
Yes. So what do we know through scripture that will happen once something is taken away. We already see that the Church is still on the earth during the two 3.5 period of years, so what is taken away? Couldn't it be that as Romans 11 says, that once the fullness of the Gentiles comes into the Church which will be full immediately before the beginning of the Great Tribulation and Antichrist, that then the blindness of Israel will be taken away which had been restraining them from becoming saved? Yes, indeed. If you have another idea, make sure it is based on what Scripture says, and not some fable taught by man. Also the Holy Spirit is omnipresent, so He can't be taken away. He will never leave us, nor forsake us, for He is the Spirit of Christ. Romans 8:9
The Church isn't mentioned after Rev 5. Not until the end.
Rev 19:
The Rider on the White Horse...This is Jesus' second return...He will come all the way to earth in this coming.

11 Then I saw heaven standing open, and there before me was a white horse. And its rider is called Faithful and True. With righteousness He judges and wages war. 12 He has eyes like blazing fire, and many royal crowns on His head. He has a name written on Him that only He Himself knows. 13 He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and His name is The Word of God.

14 The armies of heaven, dressed in fine linen, white and pure, follow Him on white horses.

Jesus returns on a White Horse.

When ever I read a statement such as what you wrote..."If you have another idea, make sure it is based on what Scripture says, and not some fable taught by man"

But lets continue...In the book of Acts chapter 11 we learn a bit about Jesus' ascension. We read “Men of Galilee,” they said, “why do you stand here looking into the sky? This same Jesus, who has been taken from you into heaven, will come back in the same way you have seen Him go into heaven.

In Rev Jesus returns on a white horse....and as you can clearly see Jesus didn't ascent into heaven on a white horse.
This should be a clear biblical indication and not some fable taught by man that Jesus comes back twice.

Once in the air (rapture) Then again on a white horse.


Recap..the restrainer is the Holy Spirit. When He is taken out of the way...the christians go with him. Then trib begins.

2nd Thess 2:6 And you know what is now restraining him, so that he may be revealed at the proper time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but the one who now restrains it will continue until he is taken out of the way. 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will slay with the breath of His mouth and annihilate by the majesty of His arrival.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
The Church isn't mentioned after Rev 5. Not until the end.

Yes it is. Revelation 12 last verse.

17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

You must think they are "tribulation saints" even though the only new coverts during the GT are national Jews.

The restrainer cannot be the Holy Spirit seeing as He cannot be taken out of the way. He is THERE to lift what was restraining Israel - their partial blindness.
 

CharismaticLady

Well-known member
....the only new coverts during the GT are national Jews? Really? Chapter and verse please.
I already gave them to you, but I'll paste them again.

Rev. 12:13 Now when the dragon saw that he had been cast to the earth, he persecuted the woman who gave birth to the male Child. 14 But the woman was given two wings of a great eagle, that she might fly into the wilderness to her place, where she is nourished for a time and times and half a time, from the presence of the serpent. 15 So the serpent spewed water out of his mouth like a flood after the woman, that he might cause her to be carried away by the flood. 16 But the earth helped the woman, and the earth opened its mouth and swallowed up the flood which the dragon had spewed out of his mouth. 17 And the dragon was enraged with the woman, and he went to make war with the rest of her offspring, who keep the commandments of God and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.

Romans 11:25 For I do not desire, brethren, that you should be ignorant of this mystery, lest you should be wise in your own opinion, that blindness in part has happened to Israel until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in. 26 And so all Israel will be saved, as it is written:

“The Deliverer will come out of Zion,
And He will turn away ungodliness from Jacob;
27 For this is My covenant with them,
When I take away their sins.”

2 Thessalonnians 2:8-12
8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders, 10 and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved. 11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie, 12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.

How do you get past the last two and think new coverts during the GT could be Gentiles?
 
Top