Bob Carabbio
Well-known member
Chuckle!!! No view at all probably wouldn't even do it!!! Argument is what CARM is here for, after all.What view am I allowed to have without getting dragged into an argument?
Chuckle!!! No view at all probably wouldn't even do it!!! Argument is what CARM is here for, after all.What view am I allowed to have without getting dragged into an argument?
Curious response. It implies ill intent on the part of others, and does so presumptively, AND in spite of acknowledging the question is interesting. Ironic since you're one of the most dismissive posters I've engaged in CARM. Even when I agree with you! Evidence to that effect can be foundWhat view am I allowed to have without getting dragged into an argument?
I ask that because this sounds like an interesting question. I simply don't want to get drug into an argument. Discuss, fine, debate... no!
Sorry!
Comment removedSeems like everyone else is trying to drag people into arguments.
Looks just the opposite. The question, "What view am I allowed to have without getting dragged into an argument?" EditI'm not interested in playing games or arguing about it.
Curious response.
After what i went through with a number of people in the C&A forum, I simply wasn't interested in an argument or debate.edit
my apologies. 10 years in the atheist forum makes it an easy thing to do.Edit
believe me I have.Edit
indeed.It takes two to argue. It takes two to discuss.
and?Edit
i thought i had.Wouldn't have been better to simply address the op?
you are indeed entitled to your opinion.Edit
Indeed.It's the eschatology board. The matters discussed here are some of the most diverse, divided, and divisive held in modern Christendom.
Well, since two people have commented on my post this morning, and I'd completely forgotten about this op, I'll state that I think sin ends at Revelation 20:14:15.and how does your millennial view fit in to this passage?
24 “Seventy weeks have been determined
concerning your people and your holy city
to put an end to rebellion,
to bring sin to completion,
to atone for iniquity,
to bring in perpetual righteousness,
to seal up the prophetic vision,
and to anoint a Most Holy Place.
Do better next time?That is part of the problem to be solved because I just got done telling you what is the goal: polite and respectful topical discourse! I even recommended some options besides replying to my post in an overt effort NOT to take this thread further off-topic and give you the oppportunity to do better in the future.
You're being dismissive again. Can you see it?
More importantly, can you stop it?
I empathize. Having spent a lot of time in non-discussions with what are more accurately described as antitheists I have born the effects, learned from the experience, and set better goals, boundaries, and expectations in an effrot not to let those influences sabotage my correspndence outside secular boards.
I think that is a smoke screen. I would normally respond with something to the effect of you know your heart better than anyone else but the truth of scripture is the heart is deceitful above all else and the truth of the threads - which is why I provided evidence - is that perhaps time in the sec boards has left you "gun shy". If so then shake it off and get back to being the bold, courageous adopted son of The Most High God you were created to be in Christ.
John 3:18-21
18Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son. 19This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but people loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. 20Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that their deeds will be exposed. 21But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what they have done has been done in the sight of God.
Walking in the light when the propensity to do the opposite appeals to the flesh is challenging.
Proverbs 27:17
As iron sharpens iron, so one person sharpens another.
That does not happen without friction! Implicit within that proverb is the reality of friction. Expecting an absence of friction always and everywhere is not scriptural. The same holds true of,
2 Timothy 3:16-17
16All Scripture is https://biblehub.com/nasb_/2_timothy/3.htm#fninspired by God and beneficial for teaching, for rebuke, for correction, for training in righteousness; 17so that the man or woman of God may be [k]fully capable, equipped for every good work.
Rebuke, correction don't happen without friction. Sometimes teaching and training are tough.
Yep
I like (some of) your ops. Have yet to be able to discuss any of them because of the consistent dismissal and hiding behind the false dichotomy of "I want to discuss, not debate or argue," and equally dismissive and ironically baiting rhetoric of "I wonder what response wouldn't get me dragged into an argument." especially since complete liberty to freely answer and address the op was present but ignored.
Do better so the next time I post an op-reply to a thread you start so a discussion happens. That is, after all, what you claim you want.
Act like it.
The book of Revelation opens and closes with statements saying the events described in its revelation were going to happen quickly because the time was then at hand.Well, since two people have commented on my post this morning, and I'd completely forgotten about this op, I'll state that I think sin ends at Revelation 20:14:15.
Rev 20:14-15 WEB 14 Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire. 15 If anyone was not found written in the book of life, he was cast into the lake of fire.
21:1 says a new heaven and a new earth will be the start of a new civilization, without any sin in the human race who are accounted worthy to be included.
Your response made it clear that you expect me to be obedient to your command, and utterly dismissed everything I'd explained about my background, and reason for my post.Yes. Do better.
Right. Blame the other guy. Do it oblivious to what it says about you (Mt. 7).
You're being dismissive again, hiding behind the "I want to discuss, not debate," self-contradictorily.
I have replied to your op-relevant post and done so op-relevantly. This is the opportunity to do your part achieving your goal: discussion.
Hi.I'll jump in here late. I agree, this is a very good question. I'm premil and that most certainly informs my answer to the question. And this is my best guess. When Christ returns and establishes the one thousand year millennial kingdom, every Jew who enters that kingdom will be subject to Jeremiah 33:
They will not sin. However, they will have offspring, and their children will not inherit the spirit that God put in their parents. For the rest of the MK, sin will return in those offspring. The book of Joel describes Israel at the end of the MK. Joel also provides a different view of the Gog-Magog invasion described in Ezekiel 38-39 and Revelation 20. When Satan and his horde are destroyed, Joel tells us this will occur:
This describes the evolution into the eternal state described in the closing passages of Revelation when sin will finally be eradicated for all eternity. That’s my best guess. And I also do not care to debate the issue.
It sounds to me like we're pretty much in agreement here! I don't have a problem with anything that you've said. I am curious if you disagree with my use of the passages from Joel? I consider Joel one of the most misunderstood books in the "minor" prophets.Hi.
Here's one for you.
According to Isaiah 65:20, it seems to be saying that in the millennium, the people who entered the kingdom in Matthew 25, will live out natural lives. I'm guessing they'll have children (I haven't seen anything or heard anything that would say they won't have children), and they will grow up and apparently if they reject Jesus, they'll die at 100 years of age and they'll be considered children of young age.
Isa 65:20 WEB “No more will there be an infant who only lives a few days, nor an old man who has not filled his days; for the child will die one hundred years old, and the sinner being one hundred years old will be accursed.
Moreover, there will apparently be kingdoms who refuse to acknowledge God, and come to Jerusalem to worship, and they will experience drought as a result.
Zec 14:16-19 WEB 16 It will happen that everyone who is left of all the nations that came against Jerusalem will go up from year to year to worship the King, Yahweh of Armies, and to keep the feast of booths. 17 It will be that whoever of all the families of the earth doesn’t go up to Jerusalem to worship the King, Yahweh of Armies, on them there will be no rain. 18 If the family of Egypt doesn’t go up and doesn’t come, neither will it rain on them. This will be the plague with which Yahweh will strike the nations that don’t go up to keep the feast of booths. 19 This will be the punishment of Egypt and the punishment of all the nations that don’t go up to keep the feast of booths.
Furthermore, at the end of the millennium, the devil is released, gathers a massive number of people who rebel against God, and he puts it down. Revelation 20:7-9.
as such (yes, I'm premil too), sin will exist in the millennium.
Which is why I say it'll stop at Revelation 20:14-15-
After the millennium.
I think your timing with Joel is off.It sounds to me like we're pretty much in agreement here! I don't have a problem with anything that you've said. I am curious if you disagree with my use of the passages from Joel? I consider Joel one of the most misunderstood books in the "minor" prophets.
Furthermore, at the end of the millennium, the devil is released, gathers a massive number of people who rebel against God, and he puts it down. Revelation 20:7-9.
as such (yes, I'm premil too), sin will exist in the millennium.
Which is why I say it'll stop at Revelation 20:14-15-
After the millennium.
I have a few questions for you both.It sounds to me like we're pretty much in agreement here! I don't have a problem with anything that you've said. I am curious if you disagree with my use of the passages from Joel? I consider Joel one of the most misunderstood books in the "minor" prophets.
What is it, specifically, that would lead you to think Daniel 9:24 has anything to do with the "1000 years" of Revelation 20? Is there something specific in Daniel 9:24 that leads you directly to Revelation 20? If not specifically verse 24, then is there something specific in the verses surrounding Daniel 9:24 that leads you to Revelation 20? How about the reverses? What in Revelation 20:1-7 leads yo to conclude Daniel 9:24 is specifically about the premillennial view of the millennium?and how does your millennial view fit in to this passage?
24 “Seventy weeks have been determined
concerning your people and your holy city
to put an end to rebellion,
to bring sin to completion,
to atone for iniquity,
to bring in perpetual righteousness,
to seal up the prophetic vision,
and to anoint a Most Holy Place.
You opened the door. Nobody was looking for your opinion.You're being rude, disrespectful, dismissive, and off-topic again.
And unloving.
Have a great day.I would ask you to show me which of those words above is loving but that would be off-topic.
I completely agree. So how about you discuss the op and show some love? Be true to your word and don't debate or argue.
I think your timing with Joel is off.
I've always been taught, and have viewed that passage of God pouring out his Spirit on all flesh as a pre-millennium occurrence.
It's possible...In my post, I asserted that the invasion of Israel described in Joel is the same Gog-Magog invasion described in Ezekiel 38-39 and Revelation 20. And that is absolutely crucial to my answer to the OP If you disagree, then when do you assert that this invasion has or will occur?
It's possible...
I'd always thought that particular invasion was the Babylonian invasion of Nebuchadnezzar.
But, there is that possibility.
We read in numerous studies of prophecy that they have a multiple stage of fulfillment.
Kind of like a near future and a distant future fulfillment. I think that's why doubters get caught up in doubting prophecy.