When They Tell You What Underwear to Use - You Know You're in a Cult:

Oh, so the video has been changed? Or is it the recorded narrator heard during endowment that tells the attendees to do that?

Here is the transcript of the 1990 endowment ceremony:


The Narrator clearly tells the participants to put on their aprons after Satan in the video tells Adam and Eve to make aprons for themselves.



However, I read that the part about Satan talking about his apron and priesthoods was eliminated from the Endowment. Was the part where the Narrator tells the participants to put on their aprons also eliminated?

I read that there is less standing up, and less repetition in the ceremony.
Actually the narrator who is speaking is not acting as Lucifer.... you're wrong again...
 
Actually the narrator who is speaking is not acting as Lucifer.... you're wrong again...
Oh, for crying out loud, Richard! I never said the narrator was acting AS Lucifer! Where on earth did you get THAT idea??? This is what I wrote: "The Narrator clearly tells the participants to put on their aprons after Satan in the video tells Adam and Eve to make aprons for themselves."

LUCIFER: See, you are naked. Take some fig leaves and make you aprons. Father will see your nakedness. Quick! Hide!

ADAM: Come, let us hide.

NARRATOR: Brethren and sisters, put on your aprons.

(The film pauses temporarily and the lights are turned up while the patrons remove their fig-leave aprons from the bundles. All patrons tie the aprons on around their waists. The lights are again turned down and the film resumes. The camera pans down and presents the Gods' perspective as they descend. Adam hides behind foliage.)


Oh, and DO note the plural "Gods" in this quote. That is polytheistic, isn't it?


Now, show me where I wrote that the Narrator was acting AS Lucifer....SHOW ME, RICHARD.

You are just getting desperate here, to try to discredit what I posted, because I proved that I was correct--the Narrator DOES or at least DID tell the participants to put on their aprons AFTER the scene in the video where Satan tells Adam and Eve to make aprons for themselves.

So, I did NOT get it wrong, and you know it!
 
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Oh, for crying out loud, Richard! I never said the narrator was acting AS Lucifer! Where on earth did you get THAT idea??? This is what I wrote: "The Narrator clearly tells the participants to put on their aprons after Satan in the video tells Adam and Eve to make aprons for themselves."




Oh, and DO note the plural "Gods" in this quote. That is polytheistic, isn't it?


Now, show me where I wrote that the Narrator was acting AS Lucifer....SHOW ME, RICHARD.

You are just getting desperate here, to try to discredit what I posted, because I proved that I was correct--the Narrator DOES or at least DID tell the participants to put on their aprons AFTER the scene in the video where Satan tells Adam and Eve to make aprons for themselves.

So, I did NOT get it wrong, and you know it!
Well there is the voice of Lucifer to hide and make aprons.... and the narrator who is telling us to put on aprons which we never made... so obviously not something Lucifer was asking us to do.... hide and make.... my apron is a symbol of worthiness, honored to put on a symbol made by God for Adam and Eve...

Every book of the Bible has something to say about the garment of God. The garment will be worn by those who are anointed and favoured by God. It clothes priests and kings, servants and leaders. Brides and warriors are to be wrapped up in its protection and power.

The Garment Of God​

 
Well there is the voice of Lucifer to hide and make aprons.... and the narrator who is telling us to put on aprons which we never made...

I never said that you guys made the aprons, but you are still told to put them on...correct? Obeying Satan in the video! Is it ever a good idea to obey Satan for any reason?
so obviously not something Lucifer was asking us to do.... hide and make.... my apron is a symbol of worthiness, honored to put on a symbol made by God for Adam and Eve...

But Satan obviously expected Adam and Eve to make those aprons and WEAR THEM, right? Not run them up flagpoles. So.....the narrator at this point tells the participants to put on THEIR aprons. You are quibbling over minutia, Richard.
Every book of the Bible has something to say about the garment of God. The garment will be worn by those who are anointed and favoured by God. It clothes priests and kings, servants and leaders. Brides and warriors are to be wrapped up in its protection and power.

Except the fig leaves weren't good enough for God. He killed animals to put skins on Adam and Eve--the first shedding of blood, all because of their sin.

The Garment Of God​

The true Garments of God Paul enumerates in Ephesians 6:

10 Finally, be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. 11 Put on the full armor of God, so that you can take your stand against the devil’s schemes. 12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. 13 Therefore put on the full armor of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. 14 Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled around your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, 15 and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. 16 In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. 17 Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

This armor really means something. THIS armor is true protection against the wiles of the devil and the evil world. THIS armor is far better than mere undergarments with Masonic symbols on them!
 
So, your undergarments are worthless pieces of material, right?
Generally speaking, people just don't talk about other people's underwear. It's kind of a pathetic argument. And when people do start talking about other people's underwear you know they have really nothing else of any serious consequence to talk about. And that's your problem not ours.
We all have to shutup and accept Mormon occultism as "Christian?" Nope
Yes. If you speak English and you have an English speaking dictionary and you understand what the word Christian means then you ought to accept the meaning. Your personal opinion about what it means is irrelevant. And when you have to start yacking about the underwear that other people wear, one can only come to the conclusion that your arguments are impotent.

I have no problem accepting the definition of a cult as it applies to us. But you're trying to make it out as though it was the occult. And we're not. We are a Christian cult. And yes, our underwear does identify us but only when we take our outer clothes off. And when we do and we're in a bad situation you know that the person who's wearing those underwear is in deep kimchi. You're not, but they are. Even if you don't know about those underwear you know that there's something definitely going on.

Our underwear is an outer expression of an inner belief to be clean and remain clean. And if you get to that layer of clothing (which I don't think happens very often), you know you are in the presence of a person who has made religious commitments to that cleanliness. To a commitment to be completely committed to our marriage relationship, to our family, to God, and to the building of his kingdom on the Earth. That's not something you find in other Christian cults. And they should be ashamed of that.

And many of those religions, only a few make serious commitments like that and they wear their emblem of that commitment on the outside. We tend to believe that commitments that should be worn closer to the heart you should be shown more in our actions rather than in a piece of clothing that way where that everyone can see. In truth, no one should ever get to that level of intimacy with someone who's made that kind of commitment unless it's for medical reasons.

So airing out someone's dirty laundry is literally the level that people get to only when they have nothing concrete to argue about.

Face it. Your argument is lame.
 
I never said that you guys made the aprons, but you are still told to put them on...correct? Obeying Satan in the video! Is it ever a good idea to obey Satan for any reason?

So, what was so wrong with Adam and Eve making aprons of fig leaves? was that a sin? if so can you tell us all what sin they committed. Adam and Eve only complied with Satan's advise, the sin was that they tried to hide from God after being disobedient... in the Temple we don't hide and we don't make our aprons, we are asked to wear them as a symbol of our covenants we make to God.... Adam and Eve made no covenants to Satan.




But Satan obviously expected Adam and Eve to make those aprons and WEAR THEM, right? Not run them up flagpoles. So.....the narrator at this point tells the participants to put on THEIR aprons. You are quibbling over minutia, Richard.
Why did Satan want them to hide, was it their nakedness or because of their disobedience. Your stretching any semblance of truth and you know it...




Except the fig leaves weren't good enough for God. He killed animals to put skins on Adam and Eve--the first shedding of blood, all because of their sin.

Among the saints none is naked,
for they have put on glory,
nor is any clad in those leaves,
or standing in shame,
for they have found, through our Lord,
the robe that belonged to Adam and Eve.[62]
Jeffrey M. Bradshaw.


The true Garments of God Paul enumerates in Ephesians 6:






Adam and Eve- Garments of Sacrificed Lambs​

“Shamed by their nakedness after the Fall, they tried unsuccessfully to cover their shame with garments of their own devising, aprons made of fig leaves (Gen. 3:7). God made them coats of skins,” which involved the sacrifice of life – something they could never forget— “and clothed them” with redemptive garments that covered their shame and allowed them to come into his presence with fear (Gen. 3:21).

After Adam and Eve had partaken of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, after they had blood flowing in their veins, after all things in the world of which they were a part had become subject to death, the God of Heaven taught them the law of sacrifice. This law required the death –by the shedding of blood – of two lambs whose skins were then placed on Adam and Eve. Those special garments were worn by them when they went out into the lone and dreary world. The garments constituted a constant reminder of the protection they would enjoy (through the shed blood of the Lamb, even the Son of God) from all the effects of the Fall.”
(Joseph Fielding McConkie and Craig J. Ostler, Revelations of the Restoration, [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 2000], 223)

.
 
So, what was so wrong with Adam and Eve making aprons of fig leaves? was that a sin?

You don't know your Bible very well, do you? WHY did they suddenly feel the need to cover their nakedness? After they disobeyed God?
if so can you tell us all what sin they committed. Adam and Eve only complied with Satan's advise, the sin was that they tried to hide from God after being disobedient

Why did they suddenly feel the need to cover their nakedness after disobeying God?
... in the Temple we don't hide and we don't make our aprons, we are asked to wear them as a symbol of our covenants we make to God.... Adam and Eve made no covenants to Satan.

THEY are TOLD to wear them by the narrator. If the participants refuse, then can they continue to go through the rest of the Endowment?
Why did Satan want them to hide, was it their nakedness or because of their disobedience. Your stretching any semblance of truth and you know it...

This is utterly false, Richard, and YOU know it! I am stretching nothing! The fact is, in the video, Adam and Eve obeyed Satan, and the participants watching the video also obey Satan, by putting on their aprons at the moment in the video when Satan tells Adam and Eve to make aprons for themselves.
Jeffrey M. Bradshaw.









Adam and Eve- Garments of Sacrificed Lambs​

“Shamed by their nakedness after the Fall, they tried unsuccessfully to cover their shame with garments of their own devising, aprons made of fig leaves (Gen. 3:7). God made them coats of skins,” which involved the sacrifice of life – something they could never forget— “and clothed them” with redemptive garments that covered their shame and allowed them to come into his presence with fear (Gen. 3:21).

After Adam and Eve had partaken of the fruit of the tree of knowledge of good and evil, after they had blood flowing in their veins, after all things in the world of which they were a part had become subject to death, the God of Heaven taught them the law of sacrifice. This law required the death –by the shedding of blood – of two lambs whose skins were then placed on Adam and Eve. Those special garments were worn by them when they went out into the lone and dreary world. The garments constituted a constant reminder of the protection they would enjoy (through the shed blood of the Lamb, even the Son of God) from all the effects of the Fall.”
(Joseph Fielding McConkie and Craig J. Ostler, Revelations of the Restoration, [Salt Lake City: Deseret Book, 2000], 223)

.
So? But the participants don't wear animal skins, but aprons that represent fig leaves--plants. Which God considered inadequate for Adam and Eve.
 
You don't know your Bible very well, do you? WHY did they suddenly feel the need to cover their nakedness? After they disobeyed God?


Why did they suddenly feel the need to cover their nakedness after disobeying God?


THEY are TOLD to wear them by the narrator. If the participants refuse, then can they continue to go through the rest of the Endowment?


This is utterly false, Richard, and YOU know it! I am stretching nothing! The fact is, in the video, Adam and Eve obeyed Satan, and the participants watching the video also obey Satan, by putting on their aprons at the moment in the video when Satan tells Adam and Eve to make aprons for themselves.

So? But the participants don't wear animal skins, but aprons that represent fig leaves--plants. Which God considered inadequate for Adam and Eve.
You’re right. The aprons Adam and Eve put on were made from fig leaves, the way satan told them to. They actually did make a covenant with him when they ate the fruit, made the aprons and disobeyed God.

The temple aprons are green, and they used to be in the shape of leaves. I don’t know if they are anymore. I think they might be square with leaves embroidered on them now. And people wear them thru the whole rest of the ceremony, including into the celestial room. And they’re buried with them on.

They represent the fig leaf aprons, not the clothing God made for Adam and Eve. So why would they wear them into the Celestial Kingdom? And why does satan want them to be obedient to their temple covenants?

I think it’s because they’re still under covenant to him, and he wants to keep them on the wrong path. Knowing that the false prophets will lead them away from Christ. They’ve been duped into thinking they’re following Christ and doing God’s will.
 
You’re right. The aprons Adam and Eve put on were made from fig leaves, the way satan told them to. They actually did make a covenant with him when they ate the fruit, made the aprons and disobeyed God.

The temple aprons are green, and they used to be in the shape of leaves. I don’t know if they are anymore. I think they might be square with leaves embroidered on them now. And people wear them thru the whole rest of the ceremony, including into the celestial room. And they’re buried with them on.

They represent the fig leaf aprons, not the clothing God made for Adam and Eve. So why would they wear them into the Celestial Kingdom? And why does satan want them to be obedient to their temple covenants?

I think it’s because they’re still under covenant to him, and he wants to keep them on the wrong path. Knowing that the false prophets will lead them away from Christ. They’ve been duped into thinking they’re following Christ and doing God’s will.
Good points. I think the aprons are square now, with leaf shapes on them.

We have discussed this before on here, but it is ludicrous that Satan, at the end of the video, tells the participants HOW to stay out of his power--by obeying all of the covenants they made in the temple. Satan is a lot of things, but stupid isn't one of them. Why would he tell the participants how to stay out of his power? Wouldn't he want them to BE in his power? I mean, how....dumb is that?
 
This criticism illustrates the darkened mindset of our critics. They have a cult complex. As if no other groups or organizations have special clothing.

Titus 1:15 Unto the pure all things are pure: but unto them that are defiled and unbelieving is nothing pure;...

Religious clothing is normal. Judaism have small and large tallits, the roman catholic church has a scapular, the the clergy has special clothing. The buddists have kaysayas, the sikhs have turbans, muslims have hijabs, etc.

Jews wore phylacteries for the purpose of remembering the words God gave them.(Deut 6:8)
Our garments serve essentially the same purpose, but because they are under the clothes, it prevents the problem of people doing so "to be seen of men". (Matt 23)

School uniforms or work uniforms? Are those cults, too?

Can you explain why the special clothing Mormons wear make them 'a cult', and not other organizations or religious groups?

The Article
The Article you linked to states "where we spend the afterlife is a matter of a personal commitment to follow Jesus Christ."
This is absolutely correct. Temple garments help remind us of our Christian standards and principles, and where we can turn for spiritual strength.

It goes on to say "It’s not something a church or a temple can promise or 'seal.'" This is true. Simply going through the motions doesn't accomplish anything. It's not the temple worker, "per se" that seals us. The sealing comes by "the Holy Spirit of Promise". (see Doctrine and Covenants 76:53; 132:7)

The article then uses the concepts of Protestant Christianity to explain why temple worship is wrong. In essence, to anyone that can see beyond their protestant lens can see that the reasoning is "you're wrong because your religion is different than mine".
 
You’re right. The aprons Adam and Eve put on were made from fig leaves, the way satan told them to. They actually did make a covenant with him when they ate the fruit, made the aprons and disobeyed God.
What a perfect example of someone leaving the Church, believing that anything they say is true doctrine, on the credentials of them once being a Mormon, and the Christians accepting it hook, line and sinker.

Do tell, what "two-way promise" was made to Satan? I don't see any. If that were true, why would she later say "the serpent beguiled me"? It simply doesn't follow.
They represent the fig leaf aprons, not the clothing God made for Adam and Eve. So why would they wear them into the Celestial Kingdom? And why does satan want them to be obedient to their temple covenants?
Gen 3:7 And the eyes of them both were opened, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves apron.

Satan is "the great accuser". He's the one that would cause us to hide from the Lord, and use our own means to justify our inadequate ability to justify ourselves before God. In similar fashion, he's the one selling "philosophies of men, mingled with scripture."

Yet, we know “[God] can pierce you, and with one glance of his eye he can smite you to the dust!” (Jacob 2:15). His “all-seeing eye” pierces our every self-deception and all the excuses with which we cover our sins like fig leaves." (John S. Tanner, Responding to the Lord’s Questions, Ensign, April 2002)

"Adam and Eve tried to cover themselves with simple aprons made of fig leaves. But the aprons were not enough, so the Lord made them more modest coats of skins. (See Genesis 3:7, 21.)" (Silvia H. Allred, former First Counselor in the Relief Society General Presidency, Ensign, July 2009)

Thus, I believe the fig leaves are symbolic of our agency the spawns from our knowledge. Like it or not, gaining knowledge of good and evil was progression toward godhood: "And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil." (Genesis 3:22)

God would not take away our knowledge and force us to become innocent again. God wants us to learn by experience. Rather, our innocence before God comes through the redemption through Christ. (D&C 93:38) Hence, when describing the celestial kingdom in D&C 76 is says "Wherefore, let no man glory in man, but rather let him glory in God, who shall subdue all enemies under his feet."

Describing the "armor of God" Paul says "[have our] loins girt about with truth". This would be consistent referring to knowledge.

They’ve been duped into thinking they’re following Christ and doing God’s will.
What a classic case of projection. From the Mormon perspective, this statement could be applied to a person who rejected their covenants and started following "the philosophies of men, mingled with scripture." Hence, "judge not, that ye be not judged."
 
No, but making it mandatory IS.
It is not mandatory. 🙄

I mean, it's not like we're going to throw you out of the church. Who checks your underwear anyway except your spouse? It is a question that is ask during the temple recommend interview if you're not wearing a garments and apparently you don't have faith and the gospel of Jesus Christ. In other words you're just one of those clueless Mormons that are more interested in fashion than you are in the covenants that you made with your God.
 
No, but making it mandatory IS.
This statement is so egregiously wrong. There is nothing in place in the church to enforce the wearing of the garment. That is not our job. As always, the gospel is voluntary. You may believe it's true, but you don't have to accept it. Nothing in the gospel is mandatory unless you seek salvation. And then, the price for entrance is faith, repentance and baptism. You don't ever even have to go to the temple. You may be too old, or handicapped, or too young, and you may not want to go. But those three things obtains the celestial kingdom so long as you follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Garments are not mandatory.
 
This statement is so egregiously wrong. There is nothing in place in the church to enforce the wearing of the garment. That is not our job. As always, the gospel is voluntary. You may believe it's true, but you don't have to accept it. Nothing in the gospel is mandatory unless you seek salvation. And then, the price for entrance is faith, repentance and baptism. You don't ever even have to go to the temple. You may be too old, or handicapped, or too young, and you may not want to go. But those three things obtains the celestial kingdom so long as you follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Garments are not mandatory.
Mandatory: required by law or rules

Bonnie is right! In order to be blessed according to Mormonism, requirements have to be met. If you don't meet the requirements, you are told you will suffer the consequences of your disobedience. Those consequences include being assigned to a lower kingdom.

All mankind can be saved by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel.

Wearing the garments is mandatory. Obedience is mandatory.

"… The Lord expects us to do all we can to save ourselves, and … after we have done all we can to save ourselves, then we can lean upon the mercies of the grace of our Heavenly Father. He gave his Son that through obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel we might gain our salvation, but not until we have done all we can do for ourselves.

"He gave his Son that through obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel we might gain our salvation, but not until we have done all we can do for ourselves. The Lord gives us, each one, a lamp to carry, but whether or not we shall have oil in our lamps depends solely upon each one of us. Whether or not we keep the commandments and supply the needed oil to light our way and to guide us on our way depends upon each of us individually. We cannot borrow from our Church membership. We cannot borrow from an illustrious ancestry. Whether or not we have oil in our lamps, I repeat, depends solely upon each one of us; it is determined by our faithfulness in keeping the commandments of the Living God.
Teachings of Harold B. Lee, Chapter 4

If you want salvation in the fullest, that is exaltation in the kingdom of God, so that you may become his sons and daughters, you have go to go into the temple of the Lord and receive these holy ordinances which belong to that house, which cannot be had elsewhere. No man shall receive the fullness of eternity, of exaltation, alone; no woman shall receive that blessing alone; but man and wife, when they receive the sealing power in the temple of the Lord, if they thereafter keep all the commandments, shall pass on to exaltation, and shall continue and become like the Lord.
Joseph fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Volume 2, p. 44


D&C 130
20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.
 
This statement is so egregiously wrong. There is nothing in place in the church to enforce the wearing of the garment. That is not our job. As always, the gospel is voluntary. You may believe it's true, but you don't have to accept it. Nothing in the gospel is mandatory unless you seek salvation. And then, the price for entrance is faith, repentance and baptism.

...and tithing so one can be "worthy" to get into your temples to perform all of the ordinances therein, and to keep a "temple recommend" for the rest of one's life, so one may be "exalted" to "godhood" in the CK after death.....right?
You don't ever even have to go to the temple. You may be too old, or handicapped, or too young, and you may not want to go. But those three things obtains the celestial kingdom so long as you follow the teachings of Jesus Christ.

Huh?
Garments are not mandatory.
So, if a person refuses to wear the temple undergarments, after going through the endowment ceremony, he or she can still get and keep a temple recommend? Just wondering....

As for the "Gospel" being mandatory, I never said participating in the temple ordinances was forced upon your membership. But aren't Mormons who have gone through the endowment supposed to wear their temple undergarments at all times afterwards, except when showering/bathing or swimming?
 
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