Where are the corpses?

Authentic Nouveau

Well-known member
You are still just trying to rationalize your conspiracy.

The vaccine is safe and effective. Millions of people have gotten it. The CDC recommends those that have had COVID to get the vaccine. The prudent thing to do is get it.

Kind of like Pascal’s Wager, but without the logical fallacies.
Conspiracy is your canned rebuttal.

200 million died he says.

 

Bob1

Well-known member
Where are the 2 Million dead in America from Chiner Fru predicted by Fao Chi?

Why did he make a false claim? Why do dishonest left wingers prop up his false claims?

6% of the 600,000 deaths labeled as pertaining to Chiner Fru ( developed by your atheist bros in Wuhan) died because of the flu and no other health issues.
Dishonest misrepresentation. You are trying to misrepresent the danger by claiming only a small number died of covid ALONE. It's inaccurate and dishonest not to acknowledge the fact that covid killed plenty of people already weakened by other conditions. It's still covid that killed them. But I wouldn't expect a fake doctor to grasp that fact.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
NB: The term for "Pascal's Wager without the logical fallacies" is Decision Theory. Pascal's Wager was an early, primitive application of this branch of economics.
Thanks, I'd forgotten this. It is 40 years plus since I studied economics. I kept thinking of opportunity cost, which is related and part of decision theory.
 

Backup

Well-known member
What conspiracy are you on about?
the one you state below

That's nice. And there is no reason to get it when you've already had covid.

No, the prudent thing to do is listen to the actual science as well as my medical doctor, who has stated I should not get the vaccine. The CDC got caught in 4k admitting the info on their site regarding natural immunity is not accurate, and has yet to amend it.

Actual science, like the studies of Israel, as well as the Cleveland Clinic's massive study show NO statistical benefit from taking the vaccine if you have already had the virus. Other studies indicate an increased risk of experiencing vaccine side effects in those who take it after having had the virus. And at least one study indicates that getting the vaccine can actually inhibit the extant t-cell capabilities of those who had the virus (which is the OPPOSITE of what you want to do).

Only if one ignores the science that says you're full of shit.
Anyone can see what the qualified scientists say, but the conspiracy theorists always think they know better.
 

Torin

Well-known member
Thanks, I'd forgotten this. It is 40 years plus since I studied economics. I kept thinking of opportunity cost, which is related and part of decision theory.
I'm glad my post was of use.

I find the decision theory concept of "expected utility" helpful for thinking clearly about certain things. Pascal's Wager is a kind of expected utility calculation, so it is interesting to reflect on how it goes wrong.

If there's any reason at all for an unbeliever to study the case for God's existence, I think part of the reason is that the arguments for God's existence can sometimes point to gaps in our existing conceptual schema. And I think this is one of those times.
 

BMS

Well-known member
Indeed there was no idea there might be deformities with Thalidomide. Perhaps the corpses haven't occurred yet.

On balance, even though the vaccines were rapidly developed and not tested over the time usually taken, and even though they arent your usual vaccine but a spike protein, I am extremely grateful for them because they do seem to be mostly protecting people from awful death.
Whether there are long term consequences or not remains to be seen, but even in that case we live to discover them.

The main problem with all this is misinformation is not necessarily misinformation. Most discussions probably have some truth, but we also live in a society where the right takes extreme positions and the left has lost touch with reality
 

Temujin

Well-known member
I'm glad my post was of use.

I find the decision theory concept of "expected utility" helpful for thinking clearly about certain things. Pascal's Wager is a kind of expected utility calculation, so it is interesting to reflect on how it goes wrong.

If there's any reason at all for an unbeliever to study the case for God's existence, I think part of the reason is that the arguments for God's existence can sometimes point to gaps in our existing conceptual schema. And I think this is one of those times.
The problem with expected utility theory in this context is that it is impossible to even guess the probabilities involved, let alone the utility. What is the probability of God existing? Of going to hell? At the end of the day economics is a way of obfuscation guesses by surrounding them with numbers, that when you look closely at them are also guesses. The probability of being wildly out is high.
 

Torin

Well-known member
The problem with expected utility theory in this context is that it is impossible to even guess the probabilities involved, let alone the utility. What is the probability of God existing? Of going to hell? At the end of the day economics is a way of obfuscation guesses by surrounding them with numbers, that when you look closely at them are also guesses. The probability of being wildly out is high.
Good points! :)

The reason I like expected utility as a concept is more that it ensures I think about all the possible outcomes and the likelihood and desirability of each. There's a subjective element to this that we should not hide from ourselves with spurious pretences of numerical precision though, as you say.
 

Algor

Well-known member
the one you state below


Anyone can see what the qualified scientists say, but the conspiracy theorists always think they know better.
I think Gondawana land is just saying that if you have had Covid, there's no point in vaccination. That isn't conspiracy theory: that's reasonable biology.
 

Gondwanaland

Active member
I think Gondawana land is just saying that if you have had Covid, there's no point in vaccination. That isn't conspiracy theory: that's reasonable biology.
Exactly. Denying natural immunity and its effectiveness straight up denies the basic biological processes by which vaccines themselves work.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
I think Gondawana land is just saying that if you have had Covid, there's no point in vaccination. That isn't conspiracy theory: that's reasonable biology.
As an anecdote, my son had long Covid, which improved markedly after his first jab and has gone completely (as far as we know) after the second. I don't know if this is a plausible biological effect or placebo, but it has worked in his case.
 

Bonnie

Super Member
As an anecdote, my son had long Covid, which improved markedly after his first jab and has gone completely (as far as we know) after the second. I don't know if this is a plausible biological effect or placebo, but it has worked in his case.
I have read about that happening in some cases. Quite fascinating, really. Glad it worked for your dear son!
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Exactly. Denying natural immunity and its effectiveness straight up denies the basic biological processes by which vaccines themselves work.
Actually, that is a good point. MedPageToday that I get in my email every day had an article about that some weeks ago, that said natural immunity should not be overlooked or dismissed.
 

Algor

Well-known member
As an anecdote, my son had long Covid, which improved markedly after his first jab and has gone completely (as far as we know) after the second. I don't know if this is a plausible biological effect or placebo, but it has worked in his case.
Yeah, that's fair. It is a complicated beast.

Long Covid can be rough.
 

Torin

Well-known member
As an anecdote, my son had long Covid, which improved markedly after his first jab and has gone completely (as far as we know) after the second. I don't know if this is a plausible biological effect or placebo, but it has worked in his case.
I'm glad to hear your son is doing better. :)
 

Bonnie

Super Member
As an anecdote, my son had long Covid, which improved markedly after his first jab and has gone completely (as far as we know) after the second. I don't know if this is a plausible biological effect or placebo, but it has worked in his case.
Temujin, if I may ask, what long covid symptoms did your son have?
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Temujin, if I may ask, what long covid symptoms did your son have?
Mostly fatigue and brain fog. He was a lot more ill than he let us know. (He lives in Ireland). It was a month before he could walk 500 yards. All well now though, and back at work after six weeks off. He is a microbiologist working in a testing lab near Dublin.
 

Torin

Well-known member
Mostly fatigue and brain fog. He was a lot more ill than he let us know. (He lives in Ireland). It was a month before he could walk 500 yards. All well now though, and back at work after six weeks off. He is a microbiologist working in a testing lab near Dublin.
The brain fog aspect of some COVID cases was one of the scariest symptoms to me before I was vaccinated. The name is not very scary, but if you think about all the ways your life and happiness depend on the ability to think clearly, neverending brain fog is an alarming prospect. Perhaps you remember Feyaway. Anyway, I am glad that wasn't your son's fate.
 
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