Where are the Creeds an abomination ?

The Prophet

Active member
JOSEPH SMITH—HISTORY

EXTRACTS FROM THE HISTORY OF JOSEPH SMITH, THE PROPHET

CHAPTER 1

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

It is interesting how the below section is an almost word for word betrayal of the Nicene Creed

SECTION 20

17 By these things we know that there is a God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable God, the framer of heaven and earth, and all things which are in them;



18 And that he created man, male and female, after his own image and in his own likeness, created he them;



19 And gave unto them commandments that they should love and serve him, the only living and true dGod, and that he should be the only being whom they should worship.



20 But by the transgression of these holy laws man became sensual and devilish, and became fallen man.



21 Wherefore, the Almighty God gave his Only Begotten Son, as it is written in those scriptures which have been given of him.



22 He suffered temptations but gave no heed unto them.



23 He was crucified, died, and rose again the third day;



24 And ascended into heaven, to sit down on the right hand of the Father, to reign with almighty power according to the will of the Father;



25 That as many as would believe and be baptized in his holy name, and endure in faith to the end, should be saved—



26 Not only those who believed after he came in the meridian of time, in the flesh, but all those from the beginning, even as many as were before he came, who believed in the words of the holy prophets, who spake as they were inspired by the gift of the Holy Ghost, who truly testified of him in all things, should have eternal life,



27 As well as those who should come after, who should believe in the gifts and callings of God by the Holy Ghost, which beareth record of the Father and of the Son;



28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.



2 Nephi 31:

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.



Alma 11:

44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.





Mormon 7:

7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.



The Testimony of Three Witnesses

And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.

Oliver Cowdery

David Whitmer

Martin Harris



1 Nephi 13: 41 And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb; wherefore they both shall be established in one; for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth.



Doctrine and Covenants 20 :

28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.



1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one. Joseph Smith translation



Moses 1:6

6 And I have a work for thee, Moses, my son; and thou art in the similitude of mine Only Begotten; and mine Only Begotten is and shall be the Savior, for he is full of grace and truth; but there is no God beside me, and all things are present with me, for I know them all.



COUNSEL GIVEN BY PRESIDENT CHARLES W. PENROSE

Now, some of our brethren have taken up quite a discussion as to the fulness of the everlasting gospel. We are told that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the gospel, that those who like to get up a dispute, say that the Book of Mormon does not contain any reference to the work of salvation for the dead and that there are many other things pertaining to the gospel that are not developed in that book, and yet we are told that the book contains "the fulness of the everlasting gospel." Well, what is the fulness of the gospel? You read carefully the revelation in regard to the three glories, Section 76, in the Doctrine and Covenants, and you find there defined what the gospel is. There God, the Eternal Father, and Jesus Christ, his Son, and the Holy Ghost, are held up as the three Persons in the Trinity—the one God, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, all three being one God. When people believe in that doctrine and obey the ordinances which are spoken of in the same list of principles, you get the fulness of the gospel for this reason: If you really believe so as to have faith in our Eternal Father and in his Son, Jesus Christ, the Redeemer, and will hear him, you will learn ail about what is needed to be done for the salvation of the living and redemption of the dead.

(General Conference Report, April 1922, pp. 27-28.)
 

The Prophet

Active member
Could a Mormon explain what the Creeds of the 4th and 5th-century Creeds say that would be an abomination and where the Book of Mormon disagrees with them :):):)
 

Aaron32

Well-known member
JOSEPH SMITH—HISTORY

EXTRACTS FROM THE HISTORY OF JOSEPH SMITH, THE PROPHET

CHAPTER 1

19 I was answered that I must join none of them, for they were all wrong; and the Personage who addressed me said that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

It is interesting how the below section is an almost word for word betrayal of the Nicene Creed

SECTION 20

17 By these things we know that there is a God in heaven, who is infinite and eternal, from everlasting to everlasting the same unchangeable God, the framer of heaven and earth, and all things which are in them;



18 And that he created man, male and female, after his own image and in his own likeness, created he them;



19 And gave unto them commandments that they should love and serve him, the only living and true dGod, and that he should be the only being whom they should worship.



20 But by the transgression of these holy laws man became sensual and devilish, and became fallen man.



21 Wherefore, the Almighty God gave his Only Begotten Son, as it is written in those scriptures which have been given of him.



22 He suffered temptations but gave no heed unto them.



23 He was crucified, died, and rose again the third day;



24 And ascended into heaven, to sit down on the right hand of the Father, to reign with almighty power according to the will of the Father;



25 That as many as would believe and be baptized in his holy name, and endure in faith to the end, should be saved—



26 Not only those who believed after he came in the meridian of time, in the flesh, but all those from the beginning, even as many as were before he came, who believed in the words of the holy prophets, who spake as they were inspired by the gift of the Holy Ghost, who truly testified of him in all things, should have eternal life,



27 As well as those who should come after, who should believe in the gifts and callings of God by the Holy Ghost, which beareth record of the Father and of the Son;



28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.



2 Nephi 31:

21 And now, behold, my beloved brethren, this is the way; and there is none other way nor name given under heaven whereby man can be saved in the kingdom of God. And now, behold, this is the doctrine of Christ, and the only and true doctrine of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, which is one God, without end. Amen.



Alma 11:

44 Now, this restoration shall come to all, both old and young, both bond and free, both male and female, both the wicked and the righteous; and even there shall not so much as a hair of their heads be lost; but everything shall be restored to its perfect frame, as it is now, or in the body, and shall be brought and be arraigned before the bar of Christ the Son, and God the Father, and the Holy Spirit, which is one Eternal God, to be judged according to their works, whether they be good or whether they be evil.





Mormon 7:

7 And he hath brought to pass the redemption of the world, whereby he that is found guiltless before him at the judgment day hath it given unto him to dwell in the presence of God in his kingdom, to sing ceaseless praises with the choirs above, unto the Father, and unto the Son, and unto the Holy Ghost, which are one God, in a state of happiness which hath no end.



The Testimony of Three Witnesses

And the honor be to the Father, and to the Son, and to the Holy Ghost, which is one God. Amen.

Oliver Cowdery

David Whitmer

Martin Harris



1 Nephi 13: 41 And they must come according to the words which shall be established by the mouth of the Lamb; and the words of the Lamb shall be made known in the records of thy seed, as well as in the records of the twelve apostles of the Lamb; wherefore they both shall be established in one; for there is one God and one Shepherd over all the earth.



Doctrine and Covenants 20 :

28 Which Father, Son, and Holy Ghost are one God, infinite and eternal, without end. Amen.



1 John 5:7 For there are three that bear record in heaven: the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost; and these three are one. Joseph Smith translation



Moses 1:6

6 And I have a work for thee, Moses, my son; and thou art in the similitude of mine Only Begotten; and mine Only Begotten is and shall be the Savior, for he is full of grace and truth; but there is no God beside me, and all things are present with me, for I know them all.



COUNSEL GIVEN BY PRESIDENT CHARLES W. PENROSE

Now, some of our brethren have taken up quite a discussion as to the fulness of the everlasting gospel. We are told that the Book of Mormon contains the fulness of the gospel, that those who like to get up a dispute, say that the Book of Mormon does not contain any reference to the work of salvation for the dead and that there are many other things pertaining to the gospel that are not developed in that book, and yet we are told that the book contains "the fulness of the everlasting gospel." Well, what is the fulness of the gospel? You read carefully the revelation in regard to the three glories, Section 76, in the Doctrine and Covenants, and you find there defined what the gospel is. There God, the Eternal Father, and Jesus Christ, his Son, and the Holy Ghost, are held up as the three Persons in the Trinity—the one God, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost, all three being one God. When people believe in that doctrine and obey the ordinances which are spoken of in the same list of principles, you get the fulness of the gospel for this reason: If you really believe so as to have faith in our Eternal Father and in his Son, Jesus Christ, the Redeemer, and will hear him, you will learn ail about what is needed to be done for the salvation of the living and redemption of the dead.

(General Conference Report, April 1922, pp. 27-28.)
Ironically, in dealing with the current dispute between Elder Holland and the LGBT+ community, I actually came to the realization of what the abomination is in God's sight, and it has nothing to do with creeds IMO - it's priestcraft.

2 Ne 26:29 - priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.

1 Ne 13:
8 Behold the gold, and the silver, and the silks, and the scarlets, and the fine-twined linen, and the precious clothing, and the harlots, are the desires of this great and abominable church.
9 And also for the praise of the world do they destroy the saints of God, and bring them down into captivity

JSH 1:19 ...their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
 

The Prophet

Active member
Ironically, in dealing with the current dispute between Elder Holland and the LGBT+ community, I actually came to the realization of what the abomination is in God's sight, and it has nothing to do with creeds IMO - it's priestcraft.

2 Ne 26:29 - priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.

1 Ne 13:
8 Behold the gold, and the silver, and the silks, and the scarlets, and the fine-twined linen, and the precious clothing, and the harlots, are the desires of this great and abominable church.
9 And also for the praise of the world do they destroy the saints of God, and bring them down into captivity

JSH 1:19 ...their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
So what do the Creeds teach that is an abomination?
 

The Prophet

Active member
Ironically, in dealing with the current dispute between Elder Holland and the LGBT+ community, I actually came to the realization of what the abomination is in God's sight, and it has nothing to do with creeds IMO - it's priestcraft.

2 Ne 26:29 - priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.
Isn't the Mormons the one that teaches humans have the potential to be gods ?

Joseph H. Weston, who joined the Mormon church three days after completing his book, exclaimed:​

Mormons don't grovel before God, prating their unworthiness and imploring mercy. They are not slaves! They are men, made in the image of God! They proudly stand, hold their heads high, and put out their hands to shake that of God in greeting, as any worthy son would be expected to respectfully but proudly stand before a wise and good father (These Amazing Mormons! p. 82).​

1 Ne 13:
8 Behold the gold, and the silver, and the silks, and the scarlets, and the fine-twined linen, and the precious clothing, and the harlots, are the desires of this great and abominable church.
9 And also for the praise of the world do they destroy the saints of God, and bring them down into captivity

JSH 1:19 ...their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”
 

Aaron32

Well-known member
Isn't the Mormons the one that teaches humans have the potential to be gods ?
Yes. But what does "god" mean in Mormonism?

Joseph H. Weston, who joined the Mormon church three days after completing his book, exclaimed:​

Mormons don't grovel before God, prating their unworthiness and imploring mercy. They are not slaves! They are men, made in the image of God! They proudly stand, hold their heads high, and put out their hands to shake that of God in greeting, as any worthy son would be expected to respectfully but proudly stand before a wise and good father (These Amazing Mormons! p. 82).​

Interesting statement. Gotta love the detour into "whataboutism".
Is there a reason Joseph H. Weston's opinion should matter to me?
 

Aaron32

Well-known member
Where is the "priestcraft" in the Creeds?
Sorry, you misunderstand.

Take a step back, and understand the concept of "priestcraft" in general:
2 Ne 26:29 - priestcrafts are that men preach and set themselves up for a light unto the world, that they may get gain and praise of the world; but they seek not the welfare of Zion.

1 Ne 13:
8 Behold the gold, and the silver, and the silks, and the scarlets, and the fine-twined linen, and the precious clothing, and the harlots, are the desires of this great and abominable church.
9 And also for the praise of the world do they destroy the saints of God, and bring them down into captivity

In the Book of Mormon, there's two church only: the church of God, and church of the Devil. The church of the Devil is the "great and abominable" church.

Now connect the two concepts in the answer to JS's question: What's church is true?
JSH 1:19 ...their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt; that: “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me, they teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.”

Do you see any detail regarding the creeds? I don't. They were an abomination BECAUSE the professors were all corrupt BECAUSE their hearts weren't seeking God's glory.

Do we even know which creeds where being taught during the time of the religious revival in the burnt over district? Based on a few sources, it sounds like a lot more extreme than typical Christianity. If you can get access to this through your local library, I'd recommend giving this a read:
Rowe, David L. “A New Perspective on the Burned-over District: The Millerites in Upstate New York.” Church History, vol. 47, no. 4, 1978, pp. 408–420. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/3164316.
 

The Prophet

Active member
Yes. But what does "god" mean in Mormonism?

Interesting statement. Gotta love the detour into "whataboutism".
Is there a reason Joseph H. Weston's opinion should matter to me?
Weston was a Mormon who wrote about Mormonism, I'm sure better credentials than you on Mormonism
 

Aaron32

Well-known member
Does the fact that it was published by "Deseret News Press" give any indication of whether the LDS church considers it accurate?
I don't think so. It's just a publishing company located in Utah. It may have it's origins from Church History, but that doesn't mean the Church endorses all it's activity.
 

Aaron32

Well-known member
Another interesting quote from the book: "And here is a main point of difference between Protestantism and Mormonism - Protestantism seeks to scare a person into being good by holding out the certainty of everlasting punishment for doing otherwise, whereas, Mormonism encourages a person to be good because to do so is not only pleasing to God, but a definite progressive step toward becoming like God."
 

The Prophet

Active member
Another interesting quote from the book: "And here is a main point of difference between Protestantism and Mormonism - Protestantism seeks to scare a person into being good by holding out the certainty of everlasting punishment for doing otherwise, whereas, Mormonism encourages a person to be good because to do so is not only pleasing to God, but a definite progressive step toward becoming like God."
Seems like Satan told Eve she could become like God :)
 
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