Where can the truth and reality be known to exist?

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
If you are referring to the "Spirit of truth" when you say "Holy Spirit",
They are one and the same.
and all truth still requires a believing mind in order to be known and experienced, then you have said nothing to refute this truth Bob.
When The Holy Spirit CONVICTS of SIN, and of Judgement, then you WILL KNOW who it is that's dealing with you, and your pre-conceived beliefs/theologies/"Expert opinions" simply go out the window.

Simple as that.
 

SteveB

Well-known member

Tercon

Well-known member
I doubt it.... the rather curious thing about philosophy is that you have to believe what you're philsophizing about to believe that it's true.
Actually I believe that is a feature of the truth; one has "to believe it" in order to know "that it's true" in reality.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
They are one and the same.

When The Holy Spirit CONVICTS of SIN, and of Judgement, then you WILL KNOW who it is that's dealing with you, and your pre-conceived beliefs/theologies/"Expert opinions" simply go out the window.

Simple as that.
How can you conceive or know anything about any truth including the Spirit of truth without a belief in reality? About the only thing that God commends man for is when we believe and trust in Him, and that's a little hard to do without believing Him.
 

Tercon

Well-known member
That is not the question. The question is, can they exist outside of a believing mind? Being known or unknown is beside the point.
Actually you are referring to what isn't knowable to you or in other words you are denoting nothing, because we cannot know anything to exist outside of a believing mind, including the truth and reality. So, if the truth and reality exists, then they are completely belief based and you are unable to know or show otherwise.
 

Temujin

Well-known member
Actually you are referring to what isn't knowable to you or in other words you are denoting nothing, because we cannot know anything to exist outside of a believing mind, including the truth and reality. So, if the truth and reality exists, then they are completely belief based and you are unable to know or show otherwise.
Garbage. Every day I come across something that was previously unknown to me. It is a commonplace occurance. It is idiotic to suppose that the currently unknown is therefore unknowable.
 

Bob Carabbio

Well-known member
How can you conceive or know anything about any truth including the Spirit of truth without a belief in reality? About the only thing that God commends man for is when we believe and trust in Him, and that's a little hard to do without believing Him.
I answered this completely, but it went right over your head. To put it a different way, let's say you didn't believe in cars, and decided to walk down the middle of the street. How long to you suppose it would be until you were forced by circumstances to "believe in cars"???

When the Holy Spirit CONVICTS of SIN, and of Judgement, what you "believed" about your "Reality" goes out the window in a millisecond.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
Actually I believe that is a feature of the truth; one has "to believe it" in order to know "that it's true" in reality.

Another of those features of Truth is--- that to know it's true, that belief requires acting on the truth.
Eg., I can believe that the key on my keyring will unlock my the door to my house, garage, car, mailbox, and storage lock, but until I actually use those keys, to unlock/lock those specific locks, I won't actually KNOW.....

It'll be nothing more than an opinion-belief.
Another example, I can indeed believe that the mini-oreo cookies I have in the little cup container I bought for a dollar taste good.... but until I do what I did, eat them, I won't actually KNOW they taste good.

This too is a basis of knowledge.....

That belief requires action for the knowledge we speak of to be experienced. Otherwise, it's nothing but an opinion.
This is why I say that atheism is nothing but a belief based on the lack of knowledge.
Btw.... those mini-oreos really tasted great! :cool:
 

SteveB

Well-known member
You have it backwards.

Atheism is the absence of a belief-based-on-the-lack-of-knowledge.
and you're choosing to refuse that knowledge based on your lack of belief that you have a clue what you're talking about.

So.... no. In fact, I have it exactly correct.

Your lack of knowledge is because you don't want to know.
 

Whatsisface

Well-known member
and you're choosing to refuse that knowledge based on your lack of belief that you have a clue what you're talking about.

So.... no. In fact, I have it exactly correct.

Your lack of knowledge is because you don't want to know.
What knowledge?
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
and you're choosing to refuse that knowledge based on your lack of belief that you have a clue what you're talking about.

So.... no. In fact, I have it exactly correct.

Your lack of knowledge is because you don't want to know.
You're not offering any knowledge. What I lack is the lack of knowledge your belief is based on.

As usual, you have no idea what atheists think or why, and show no interest in learning.
 

SteveB

Well-known member
You're not offering any knowledge. What I lack is the lack of knowledge your belief is based on.

As usual, you have no idea what atheists think or why, and show no interest in learning.

Here's a collection of articles, from which you can start.
When you finish them, let me know. We can discuss them. Document whatever questions you have. furthermore, I've posted an op on this in the bible/History section, so feel free to post there.
 

Nouveau

Well-known member
Here's a collection of articles, from which you can start.
When you finish them, let me know. We can discuss them. Document whatever questions you have. furthermore, I've posted an op on this in the bible/History section, so feel free to post there.
Choose ONE that YOU'VE READ and can summarize. Start a thread on it, and I'll read it too and discuss it with you. If that goes well, we can look at the rest.
 
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