Where does Grace come into the picture in Mormonism?

Pro-Truth

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There are so many religions out there...many believe to be "the only true church". Mormonism is certainly one that makes this claim. But, at the very surface of the LDS Church, the flaws are quickly apparent with the existence of the Book of Mormon and it's claim to be "Another Testament".

Biblical Scripture squashes that possibility immediately in Galatians 1:7-9. "Testament" is also a word for "Covenant". This is what Christianity teaches for Mormons trying to understand where Christians are coming from...perhaps you'll understand the absurdity of the possibility of the very claim of "Another Testament":


The Born Again experience is a death sentence. Do I have your attention? Good...when a person becomes a believer in Jesus Christ, their old self dies and is crucified with Christ. They are buried with Christ. Then they are raised to new life in Christ because of His Resurrection and become a new self. The entire nature of a believer is righteous, Holy, and blameless....none of this has anything to do with what we are doing, but rather, by the finished work of Jesus Christ. Believers are partakers of the divine nature and seated in Heavenly places. A new believer is no longer of this world and becomes an eternal creature...all because of the finished work of Jesus Christ....absolutely nothing to do with what we are doing.

Faith in God's Grace, not of works (Ephesians 2:8-9)
 
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There are so many religions out there...many believe to be "the only true church".
Logically, there can be only one true church. Anyone who teaches anything different from that one true church by definition would be a false Church. You can't have one church that teaches it baptism is necessary or you cannot enter into the kingdom of God, and another church that says that baptism is necessary and that is only a symbol, and claim that both churches are true.

The truth is that only one of those things can be true. The other one because it is different from the truth is false. That's pure logic. You can't escape it.

Our job, if we are truly interested in salvation, would be to find that one true church or at least one that we believe teaches the truth until we find one that teaches better truth or more truth.

I find so many born-again Christians that keep bouncing from one Church to the other mostly over an offense that they experienced in the church. Whether it's over Doctrine or not is irrelevant. The idea that you can pick and choose whichever building and preacher that you happen to like and that would be the true church and it really doesn't matter is counter to logic. It is, in my opinion, the definition of illogical.

Picking a church because they have better entertainment or because the preacher has a lot of charisma or he makes you feel good doesn't seem to be the way the church Jesus Christ would have formed would be. Now we have so many charismatic preachers out there and so many people who talk a good line but the doctrines they teach just don't conform to the teachings in the Bible. And that's a problem for anyone who is seriously looking for salvation.
But, at the very surface of the LDS Church, the flaws are quickly apparent with the existence of the Book of Mormon and it's claim to be "Another Testament".
I'm not going to really address how ridiculous this argument is. I'm just going to say that we believe that on the surface the existence of the Book of Mormon as another Testament of Jesus Christ it is the very foundation upon which a true church should be established. Continuing revelation. More of the word of God. How can that be wrong? In a world that is so confusing and so chaotic especially in the Catholic religion with so many different doctrines from the same book. I would beg for someone to give some direction in that chaos. And the Book of Mormon provides that.

Going back to my claims about logic. Mathematically, a point can be approached from any direction and going any direction. You can lay lines anywhere you want over it because there is no direction with only a single point in Infinity. But when you have two points then you can draw a single line from one point to the other and it may wiggle and wobble but you know the direction you're supposed to be going in if you have a second point and you can move towards it. We have two witnesses for a reason. One witness it's just his word but when you have two witnesses then you have someone backing up the first witness and that is the reason why Jesus said that his Doctrine would be established by two or more witnesses. That's the reason why we travel in pairs to preach the gospel. That's the reason why we have a book of Mormon and a Bible. And the challenge has been offered, and no one has taken it up, to show us where the Book of Mormon disagrees where Doctrine is concerned with the Bible. They both claim there is but one God. And they both claimed that God is the god of Israel. And that salvation comes in and through Jesus Christ and only through him. They both teach the baptism is necessary to enter into the kingdom of God. They both teach faith repentance baptism and the gift of the Holy Ghost. They both teach accepting Christ and enduring to the end. So if you really think there's something wrong with that second witness please show us where the Book of Mormon just squeeze with the Bible on Doctrine, especially salvational Doctrine.
 
Biblical Scripture squashes that possibility immediately in Galatians 1:7-9. "Testament" is also a word for "Covenant". This is what Christianity teaches for Mormons trying to understand where Christians are coming from...perhaps you'll understand the absurdity of the possibility of the very claim of "Another Testament
Even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

No it doesn't. It proves that your your religion is under God's curse because you teach another gospel and not one that was preached by the apostles and by Jesus Christ. And we can start with the fact that you have no apostles. None. Not a single one. You guys are part of the confusion and have perverted the gospel to the point that it is no longer even recognizable as being associated with the gospel found in the Bible. And we can wrap that one up with the fact that you expunge the need for baptism even though Jesus Christ said that no one can enter the kingdom of God without it. Your argument is laughable.
 
Even if we or an angel from heaven should preach a gospel other than the one we preached to you, let them be under God’s curse!

No it doesn't. It proves that your your religion is under God's curse because you teach another gospel and not one that was preached by the apostles and by Jesus Christ. And we can start with the fact that you have no apostles. None. Not a single one. You guys are part of the confusion and have perverted the gospel to the point that it is no longer even recognizable as being associated with the gospel found in the Bible. And we can wrap that one up with the fact that you expunge the need for baptism even though Jesus Christ said that no one can enter the kingdom of God without it. Your argument is laughable.
The True Church has Jesus as Apostle and Priest {Hebrews 3:1] and Prophet [Hebrews 1:1-2]
 
Yep, and our church has it and yours does not.
the twelve names here correspond to the original twelve apostles as established after the ascension of Jesus: Peter, John, James, Andrew, Philip, Thomas, Bartholomew, Matthew, James son of Alpheus, Simon, Judas son of James and Matthias (Acts 1:12–14; 1:26). Revelation 21:9–27 presents a description of the New Jerusalem.

:)No LDS Apostles mentioned in Revelations 21:9-27:)


 
The True Church is also built upon the foundation of apostles and prophets (Ephesians 2:20).
The TRUE apostles and TRUE prophets of the Bible--not the fake ones of your church, who masquerade as "angels of light." BUT--the foundation has ALREADY BEEN LAID. ONCE, for all time:

1 Cor. 3:
10 By the grace God has given me, I laid a foundation as a wise builder, and someone else is building on it. But each one should build with care. 11 For no one can lay any foundation other than the one already laid, which is Jesus Christ.
 
The true Church is spiritual, not a building with walls and a ceiling. Christ lives in every born again believer.

This has never been lost...Jesus didn't fail in His mission, as the LDS Church would insist. Jesus said "it is finished". There is no wiggle room.

Salvation is a gift, which, by definition, is not something one earns. Born again believers are Holy, righteous, and blameless because of the finished work of Jesus Christ.

I wonder if Mormons here have ever wondered how born again believers are consistent in their beliefs despite not likely attending the same church building on a weekly basis. It's because the true Church is spiritual! Born again believers ARE the Church.
 
There are so many religions out there...many believe to be "the only true church". Mormonism is certainly one that makes this claim. But, at the very surface of the LDS Church, the flaws are quickly apparent with the existence of the Book of Mormon and it's claim to be "Another Testament".
We shall see....
Biblical Scripture squashes that possibility immediately in Galatians 1:7-9.
Well, let's take a look.
Gal 1:
7 Which is not another; but there be some that trouble you, and would pervert the gospel of Christ.
First, we would need to prove the gospel taught by Protestant Christianity is the original gospel Paul is referring to, and also prove the LDS Church is a perverted gospel. Unfortunately, since neither of us have a time machine, all we have is the teachings of the Bible ALONE as a criteria. If the gospel of Mormonism passes this test, then clearly a possibility exists.
8 But though we, or an angel from heaven, preach any other gospel unto you than that which we have preached unto you, let him be accursed.
Ironically, in verse 12, Paul says "For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ." illustrating that the gospel can be taught by revelation. This opens up many possibilities, not squashing them.
9 As we said before, so say I now again, If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed.
Again, this statement is only good as the claim of the gospel they received. Nothing is squashed or determined from this statement. It merely begs the question "What is the gospel [they] have received?"
"Testament" is also a word for "Covenant". This is what Christianity teaches for Mormons trying to understand where Christians are coming from...perhaps you'll understand the absurdity of the possibility of the very claim of "Another Testament":
Rather than assuming Mormons don't know what "Testament" means, it might be important to identify the reasons why Mormons consider the Book of Mormon another covenant, and address them directly.

The Born Again experience is a death sentence.
Very true!
Omni 1: 26 And now, my beloved brethren, I would that ye should come unto Christ, who is the Holy One of Israel, and partake of his salvation, and the power of his redemption. Yea, come unto him, and offer your whole souls as an offering unto him, and continue in fasting and praying, and endure to the end; and as the Lord liveth ye will be saved
when a person becomes a believer in Jesus Christ, their old self dies and is crucified with Christ. They are buried with Christ. Then they are raised to new life in Christ because of His Resurrection and become a new self.
Yes. Isnt it wonderful?
Mosiah 27: 25 And the Lord said unto me: Marvel not that all mankind, yea, men and women, all nations, kindreds, tongues and people, must be born again; yea, born of God, changed from their carnal and fallen state, to a state of righteousness, being redeemed of God, becoming his sons and daughters; 26 And thus they become new creatures; and unless they do this, they can in nowise inherit the kingdom of God
The entire nature of a believer is righteous, Holy, and blameless....none of this has anything to do with what we are doing, but rather, by the finished work of Jesus Christ.
Yep.
Alma 5: 26 And now behold, I say unto you, my brethren, if ye have experienced a change of heart, and if ye have felt to sing the song of redeeming love, I would ask, can ye feel so now? 27 Have ye walked, keeping yourselves blameless before God? Could ye say, if ye were called to die at this time, within yourselves, that ye have been sufficiently humble? That your garments have been cleansed and made white through the blood of Christ, who will come to redeem his people from their sins?
Believers are partakers of the divine nature and seated in Heavenly places. A new believer is no longer of this world and becomes an eternal creature...all because of the finished work of Jesus Christ....absolutely nothing to do with what we are doing.

Faith in God's Grace, not of works (Ephesians 2:8-9)
Yes. It's by God's power we are able to act in righteousness at all.
Moroni 10:
32 Yea, come unto Christ, and be perfected in him, and deny yourselves of all ungodliness; and if ye shall deny yourselves of all ungodliness, and love God with all your might, mind and strength, then is his grace sufficient for you, that by his grace ye may be perfect in Christ; and if by the grace of God ye are perfect in Christ, ye can in nowise deny the power of God. 33 And again, if ye by the grace of God are perfect in Christ, and deny not his power, then are ye sanctified in Christ by the grace of God, through the shedding of the blood of Christ, which is in the covenant of the Father unto the remission of your sins, that ye become holy, without spot.
The true Church is spiritual, not a building with walls and a ceiling.
By their fruits they are known. Foundation of the Church is apostles and prophets, Christ being the chief cornerstone. There is one Lord, one faith, and baptism.
Christ lives in every born again believer.
True, and yet men have agency to choose that spirit which is in them.
This has never been lost...Jesus didn't fail in His mission, as the LDS Church would insist. Jesus said "it is finished". There is no wiggle room.
Huh? Please reference any LDS source that says Christ failed. Christ's work to pay for our sins was finished on the cross.
Salvation is a gift, which, by definition, is not something one earns. Born again believers are Holy, righteous, and blameless because of the finished work of Jesus Christ.
Yes. Of course.
Alma 5: 10 And now I ask of you on what conditions are they saved? Yea, what grounds had they to hope for salvation? What is the cause of their being loosed from the bands of death, yea, and also the chains of hell? 11 Behold, I can tell you—did not my father Alma believe in the words which were delivered by the mouth of Abinadi? And was he not a holy prophet? Did he not speak the words of God, and my father Alma believe them? 12 And according to his faith there was a mighty change wrought in his heart. Behold I say unto you that this is all true.

I wonder if Mormons here have ever wondered how born again believers are consistent in their beliefs despite not likely attending the same church building on a weekly basis. It's because the true Church is spiritual! Born again believers ARE the Church.
I don't spend my time wondering about the beliefs of others. I trust God will lead them according to His will. His elect will hear his voice, and follow in His footsteps.
 
The TRUE apostles and TRUE prophets of the Bible--not the fake ones of your church, who masquerade as "angels of light." BUT--the foundation has ALREADY BEEN LAID. ONCE, for all time:

1 Cor. 3:
But Protestantism is not built on that foundation. You have no apostles or prophets.
 
But Protestantism is not built on that foundation. You have no apostles or prophets.
I appreciate your passion, but we don't need to tear down the beliefs of others to justify our own. Protestants would say they are built on the foundation of prophets of the Old Testament and Apostles of the New Testament.
 
But Protestantism is not built on that foundation. You have no apostles or prophets.

The Resurrection of Christ​

15 Now, brothers and sisters, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand. 2 By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain.

3 For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance[a]: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, 4 that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures,

This is what Paul defines as the Gospel
 
In Mormonism, grace is mostly just the ability to do something God wants them to do--it isn't God's undeserved favor.

Grace

A word that occurs frequently in the New Testament, especially in the writings of Paul. The main idea of the word is divine means of help or strength, given through the bounteous mercy and love of Jesus Christ.
It is through the grace of the Lord Jesus, made possible by His atoning sacrifice, that mankind will be raised in immortality, every person receiving his body from the grave in a condition of everlasting life. It is likewise through the grace of the Lord that individuals, through faith in the Atonement of Jesus Christ and repentance of their sins, receive strength and assistance to do good works that they otherwise would not be able to maintain if left to their own means. This grace is an enabling power that allows men and women to lay hold on eternal life and exaltation after they have expended their own best efforts.
Divine grace is needed by every soul in consequence of the Fall of Adam and also because of man’s weaknesses and shortcomings. However, grace cannot suffice without total effort on the part of the recipient. Hence the explanation, “It is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do” (2 Ne. 25:23). It is truly the grace of Jesus Christ that makes salvation possible. This principle is expressed in Jesus’ parable of the vine and the branches (John 15:1–11). See also John 1:12–17; Eph. 2:8–9; Philip. 4:13; D&C 93:11–14.


And even then, grace won't kick in, UNTIL the person expends his total efforts first. Which is the opposite of what Biblical grace truly is.
 
In Mormonism, grace is mostly just the ability to do something God wants them to do--it isn't God's undeserved favor.
You mean Mormonism believes grace transforms a person so that their faith causes them walk in the newness of life? Weird. How is that wrong?

And even then, grace won't kick in, UNTIL the person expends his total efforts first. Which is the opposite of what Biblical grace truly is.
So the Biblical grace you speak have NO requirements whatsoever? Can I can unrepentantly live in lasciviousness and claim Jesus as my Savior? This may be the false gospel that talked about so much in the Bible (see Jude 1:4)
Can we deliberately live immoral lives and expect God to save us? Does God save us in our sins, or from our sins?
Between no effort to total effort, what degree of effort is required for us to receive salvation? And how does one know? Can you answer this question using the Bible alone?

Mormons teach that they can know by the gift of Holy Ghost: "For behold, again I say unto you that if ye will enter in by the way, and receive the Holy Ghost, it will show unto you all things what ye should do." (2 Ne 32:5) This is why denying the Holy Ghost is the unpardonable sin:
  • Blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men, Matt. 12:31–32 (Mark 3:29; Luke 12:10).
  • It is impossible for those who were made partakers of the Holy Ghost to renew them again unto repentance, Heb. 6:4–6.
  • If we sin wilfully after we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, Heb. 10:26.
So where is Mormonism getting this wrong?
 
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