Where have all the Christians gone?
- Thread starter Caroljeen
- Start date
stiggy wiggy
Well-known member
Maybe because they find no need to defend it to atheists. Perhaps they feel it's a pearls before swine thing. I've been coming here for years now, but can't for the life of me tell you exactly why. I guess it might be something analogous to sharpening a knife on the roughest surface possible. My faith is strengthened even more than it already is by hearing the shallow nature of even the best arguments against it.
I don't have any expectations of being able to bring someone to the faith on an impersonal internet forum like this where we never meet eye to eye. The best I can hope for is that an atheist might at least recognize the flaws in his or her prejudicial arguments against Christianity. But since being a believer requires submitting to a living Person as opposed to giving mere mental assent to a doctrine, regardless of how true that doctrine may be, I can only hope to prepare the way, and not introduce the Way. But I'm no John the Baptist. I can hardly bring myself to eat snails, much less locusts. And a shirt made from camel's hair sounds way too itchy.
mikeT
Well-known member
We know this to be false. Christians routinely come to the Atheism forum, prepared to tell atheists how wrong they are, and assert the divinity of the god of the bible. They post stuff highlighting the correctness of Christian doctrine, and the evilness of a rejection of that same doctrine.
The problem is that the vast majority of them either leave, or revert to trolling 100% of the time they spend here in the Secular forums.
There are exceptions, though; @Caroljeen may be one of the few.
You're definitely not.
Eightcrackers
Well-known member
They come here to tell us what they believe, but never seem to explain why we should believe it.
Mainly, it's because Christianity is harder to defend than atheism on a debate forum.
Atheism is usually just a position like "I lack belief in God because there's no evidence." That's very simple and straightforward to defend, because you just have to keep batting away arguments for God's existence. Plausible rebuttals to most of those arguments can be found on Wikipedia, which is just a Google search away. So a basic case for atheism is easy to make.
Christianity, by contrast, can encompass hundreds of propositions. For example, a Christian may believe that the Bible is inerrant, in which case they're on the hook for everything the Bible says! In addition, some of these propositions, like the Trinity, involve rather tricky metaphysics. I would wager that most Christians simply aren't interested in putting in the work necessary to defend Christianity plausibly in debate.
So Christians, if they're laymen and not professional apologists, will usually be playing defense on a forum like this. Most Christians aren't going to enjoy that.
I would add that I think some atheists here, some of the time, have a bit of an issue with civility. That could also deter Christian participants, in conjunction with the above.
stiggy wiggy
Well-known member
And you're Mr. Congeniality, right?
I would suggest that that is because atheism is true, and Christianity is not. It is far easier to defend a true claim than a false one.
You do not think some Christians do too? Or are you saying atheists have thicker skins?
I tried to phrase things neutrally in my post because Caroljeen is a civil participant here. But that is a possible inference to draw.
I do think some Christians also have what we might call "civility issues."
Temujin
Well-known member
I would take issue with this. There are more cases of Christians being uncivil than atheists. What's more when debate descends into bickering, it is more often than not the Christian side that initiates the descent. There may be some gentler souls who avoid this hurly-burly, but as @Caroljeen shows, it is perfectly possible to conduct civil debate, and I would hope that she very rarely experiences uncivil behaviour from atheists, or anyone else, directly.
There is no biblical command to "defend Christianity" against those who attack it from the outside. The command of Jesus was to "let the dead bury their dead," which is to say, let atheists rot in their sins, which I see no problem with, especially with hardened atheists, as repentance can only come from the inside. Most atheists have secret sins and lead sinful and depraved lifestyles that they don't reveal online, and which they are addicted to. It is pointless discussing anything with them, because they aren't interested in religion, but only in maintaining their freedom to sin.
In any case, much of the "debate" nowadays consists in de-platforming opponents to make one's point. Thus the atheist Richard Dwarkins has recently been deplatformed for Islamophobia by pseudo-religious bigots, and also by feminists, whilst he himself deplatformed William Lane Craig for defending "genocide" (so-termed) in the bible; although there was no "genocide" as such because (a) there was no law of genocide in those promitive times, (b)the Canaanites nations declined to surrender or negotiate and chose to make war on the Israelites, (c) if you didn't destroy your enemies, they would destroy you.
Whatsisface
Well-known member
If their sins are secret, how do you know they have them?
Temujin
Well-known member
The demons tell him.
docphin5
Well-known member
The moral requirements of christianity are not hard to defend. The love your neighbor as yourself precept is universally recognized.
On the other hand, the myths and superstitious beliefs are indefensible. I am not talking about the belief in a single creator for all souls and matter (a belief supported by science) but the myths that break the laws of nature: talking animals, elijah flying in a chariot to heaven, yehova slaying dragons, moses parting the sea, turning a staff into a snake, jesus ascending in the clouds, reassembling a decomposing body, etc. Making arguments for these STORIES being historical events (rather than allegory, figure, or types) is indefensible.
Given that a secular forum has an audience who insists upon evidence, then no surprise christians avoid this forum. They would much rather argue how many angels can dance on a pinhead in the apologetics forum where mere belief reigns supreme. If anyone can find a verse in the Bible which supports their position then it becomes a belief, no matter how absurd it is. There is no reality check on anything when it comes to mere belief.
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Because I have discovered some of them, after relentless questioning: some or many atheists here are homosexuals, but they very seldom disclose it. Frankly, there is no need to "defend" Christianity against such sinners: they know where their sins are leading them, i.e. eternal death, but they don't care. Fine.
But is it universally practised? I think not.
Were you even there at the time? Who are you to accuse another of being a liar? Many people are healed of serious diseases by faith, even to this day, but you don't know about it, because you don't investigate.
That Jesus fulfilled numerous prophecies written before he was born is not in any evidential doubt, but is always disregarded by atheists.
Whatsisface
Well-known member
Really? But they're only sins because Christianity says so. It's rather perverse that God creates some "sick" and commands them to be well. As for eternal death, well atheists don't think there is an alternative so can't think that's where any sin is leading them.
Eightcrackers
Well-known member
How do you know that they know this?
Eightcrackers
Well-known member
Which is why Christians maintain that people are not created gay.
Whatsisface
Well-known member
I would think there are many gay Christians who would disagree. A lot of them quietly.
Matthew 8:21-23 Jesus was not speaking about atheists in those verses. Jesus died for all men.That includes atheists.
1Peter 15-16 Always be ready to make your defense to anyone who demands from you an accounting for the hope that is in you, 16 yet do it with gentleness and respect.
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