Where is “the heart of the earth”?

Bob Dobbalina

Active member
I’ve always understood the “heart of the earth” to mean the grave but have come to question such reasoning for reasons that I expect will be revealed through this exercise. Your thoughts?
 

SteveB

Well-known member
I’ve always understood the “heart of the earth” to mean the grave but have come to question such reasoning for reasons that I expect will be revealed through this exercise. Your thoughts?
Well, taking into account other passages which say where Jesus was during the 3 days/nights he was dead, I'd say that he was in hell, preaching to prisoners.

I'm guessing you're referring to Jesus' comment regarding where he'll go, in relation to Jonah's time in the belly of the great fish.
“For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

1 Peter 3:18 For Christ also suffered once for sins, the just for the unjust, that He might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh but made alive by the Spirit, 19 by whom also He went and preached to the spirits in prison, 20 who formerly were disobedient, when once the Divine longsuffering waited in the days of Noah, while the ark was being prepared, in which a few, that is, eight souls, were saved through water.​

Although, there are some pretty interesting ideas out there which have absolutely nothing to do with God, or Jesus.

 

Hawkeye

Active member
I’ve always understood the “heart of the earth” to mean the grave but have come to question such reasoning for reasons that I expect will be revealed through this exercise. Your thoughts?
The "Heart of the Earth" is simply a metaphor describing Yeshua's ordeal from being arrested in the garden, taken to the Sanhedrin, beaten and insulted....on to Pilate and Herod with more beatings and insults..... and finally to the tree on Golgotha..... crucifixion, death and resurrection. Three days and three nights.



"Heart of the Earth" simply meant.....under the temporary command and control of wicked mankind.
 

Hawkeye

Active member
The "Heart of the Earth" is simply a metaphor describing Yeshua's ordeal from being arrested in the garden, taken to the Sanhedrin, beaten and insulted....on to Pilate and Herod with more beatings and insults..... and finally to the tree on Golgotha..... crucifixion, death and resurrection. Three days and three nights.



"Heart of the Earth" simply meant.....under the temporary command and control of wicked mankind.
Since it been three days since I posted my response to this thread with no comments yet......I'll go ahead and provide the passages which will explain my reasoning regarding the "Three days and three nights" of scripture.

There are 10 passages in scripture that speak of the third day....so it should not be very difficult to find out what is meant by His original statement in [Matthew 12:4 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

I'll list them in the order they appear in each book for reference using the KJV.

[Matthew 16:21] From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

We are told He must go to the city and suffer, be killed and raise again the 3rd day. Does it say from the time He entered the tomb? No!

[Matthew 17:22-23] And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men: And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.

Again....He mentions being betrayed, killed and raising the 3rd day. No mention of the days beginning when He is entombed.

[Matthew 20:18-19] Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.

He goes to the city and is betrayed, mocked, scourged and condemned to death....and crucified....and raised the 3rd day. The 3rd day from what?

If you count the time He spent in the tomb (enters at sundown on the day of preparation for the High Sabbath [John 19:31] and comes out shortly before sunrise)....this does not equal three full days but only a half of one of the days. So....it looks as if there were more things involved than just reposing in the tomb.

[Mark 8:31] And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

Three days from what? He suffered; was rejected; was killed and rose again.

[Mark 9:31] For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.

He was delivered to men, killed and rose the 3rd day. The 3rd day from what?

[Mark 10:33-34] Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles: And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again.

Goes to the city; is delivered; is mocked, scourged and spit upon; is killed and raises the 3rd day. It appears that many things are happening during these three days and not once are we being told it is from the time He enters the tomb.

[Luke 9:22] Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.

He suffers; is rejected; is killed and raises the 3rd day. The 3rd day from what?

[Luke 18:31-33] Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

Many things here to consider transpiring during the three days.

[Luke 24:7] Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

The 3rd day from what?

[Luke 24:20-21] And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

Cleopas is saying to Yeshua that today is the 3rd day since ALL THESE THINGS were done! All what things?

It is beginning to indeed look like the three days and three nights includes more than just the time in the tomb.

 

Dant01

Member
.
Jonah 1:17 . .The Lord provided a great fish to swallow Jonah, and Jonah was inside
the fish three days and three nights.


FAQ: Was Jonah alive in the fish?

A: Yes. (Jonah 2:1)

FAQ: The whole time?

A: No; and in point of fact; unless Jonah was deceased at some point, then his
adventure would relate very little of any real significance to Christ's death, burial, and
resurrection.


FAQ: So you think Jonah died in the fish?

A: Jonah 2:5-7 strongly suggests that he drowned prior to being swallowed by the big
fish; which fits perfectly with the fact that Jesus was dead before his body was
entombed; viz: neither man was buried alive.

At some point in his nautical adventure Jonah went to a place called sheol (Jonah 2:2)
which he sited at the roots of the mountains. (Jonah 2:6)

Well; the roots of the mountains aren't located in the tummies of fish, no; they're located
down deep in the Earth. So, the only way that Jonah could possibly be at the roots of
the mountains while simultaneously in the belly of a fish was for the man and his body
to part company and go their separate ways. This is not impossible because according
to Matt 10:28 people's souls don't always die along with their body.

And then there's Jesus . . .

Matt 12:39-40 . . As Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish,
so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the Earth.

Now when you think about it; Jesus' corpse was never in the heart of the Earth. It wasn't
even in the Earth's soil. His corpse was laid to rest on the surface of the Earth in a rock
hewn tomb.

So the only way that Jesus could possibly be in a tomb on the surface of the Earth while
simultaneously in the heart of the Earth; was for the man and his body to part company
and go their separate ways.

Now according to Matt 10:28, Jesus' soul didn't cease to exist when he passed away on
the cross. In point of fact, his soul went to a place called hades, which is the Greek
equivalent of sheol. (Acts 2:27 and Ps 16:10)

So then, if sheol and hades are the same place, then when Jesus passed away on the
cross his soul went down to the roots of the mountains the same as Jonah's did when
he passed away.


NOTE: According to Luke 16:23-26 and Luke 23:43, hades isn't only a place of
suffering, but also a place of comfort. This may not jibe with modern thinking, but
according to the thinking in Jesus' day, hades was an afterlife where all the dead went
regardless of age, race, gender and/or religious preference: the young and the old, the
good and the bad, the pious and the impious. So Abraham and Lazarus were in hades
too; although their side of it was far more tolerable than the rich man's.
_
 

Bob Dobbalina

Active member
Since it been three days since I posted my response to this thread with no comments yet......I'll go ahead and provide the passages which will explain my reasoning regarding the "Three days and three nights" of scripture.

There are 10 passages in scripture that speak of the third day....so it should not be very difficult to find out what is meant by His original statement in [Matthew 12:4 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

I'll list them in the order they appear in each book for reference using the KJV.

[Matthew 16:21] From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

We are told He must go to the city and suffer, be killed and raise again the 3rd day. Does it say from the time He entered the tomb? No!

[Matthew 17:22-23] And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men: And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.

Again....He mentions being betrayed, killed and raising the 3rd day. No mention of the days beginning when He is entombed.

[Matthew 20:18-19] Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.

He goes to the city and is betrayed, mocked, scourged and condemned to death....and crucified....and raised the 3rd day. The 3rd day from what?

If you count the time He spent in the tomb (enters at sundown on the day of preparation for the High Sabbath [John 19:31] and comes out shortly before sunrise)....this does not equal three full days but only a half of one of the days. So....it looks as if there were more things involved than just reposing in the tomb.

[Mark 8:31] And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

Three days from what? He suffered; was rejected; was killed and rose again.

[Mark 9:31] For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.

He was delivered to men, killed and rose the 3rd day. The 3rd day from what?

[Mark 10:33-34] Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles: And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again.

Goes to the city; is delivered; is mocked, scourged and spit upon; is killed and raises the 3rd day. It appears that many things are happening during these three days and not once are we being told it is from the time He enters the tomb.

[Luke 9:22] Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.

He suffers; is rejected; is killed and raises the 3rd day. The 3rd day from what?

[Luke 18:31-33] Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

Many things here to consider transpiring during the three days.

[Luke 24:7] Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

The 3rd day from what?

[Luke 24:20-21] And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

Cleopas is saying to Yeshua that today is the 3rd day since ALL THESE THINGS were done! All what things?

It is beginning to indeed look like the three days and three nights includes more than just the time in the tomb.
This is very similar to something I read previously- perhaps it was your post,Hawkeye- and I’m persuaded. This makes sense and does nothing to distort the gospel narrative.

Nonetheless, there will be those who adamantly oppose the theory because it does dismantle the lazy tradition of man that reads into scripture what isn’t there. I understood the phrases to mean the grave because it’s a cheap and easy metaphor.
 

Hawkeye

Active member
.


That's not a valid excuse for hijacking a thread and changing its subject. You're
acting like a cow bird.
_
The "subject" of this thread was............Bob always thought the "Heart of the Earth" meant the grave.....but he had doubts later on in life..........

I agreed with him that to doubt the grave as the meaning of "Heart of the Earth" was very correct. Physically....the actual heart of the Earth is in a very fiery, liquid, molten (we're told by science) location and to imagine a grave being there is just silly. So....it's more likely a metaphor for something else and my original post suggested it meant simply......"Under the temporary command and control of evil mankind"..... and followed with the second post showing the other things that occurred during this "Three Days and Three Nights" according to scripture. This would show the temporary command and control of evil mankind and their cruel efforts to eliminate Yeshua's teachings by shutting Him up.

Just how would that be construed as "Hijacking" this thread? Where was the subject changed? What is a "Cow Bird"?
 

Bob Dobbalina

Active member
.


That's not a valid excuse for hijacking a thread and changing its subject. You're
acting like a cow bird.
? No one has hijacked anything. Do you have anything to offer re the subject at hand or is this non sequitur the best you can come up with?
I am considering putting “ You’re acting like a cowbird” on T-shirts. I think it would sell well so your post is not a total waste of time.
 

Hawkeye

Active member
? No one has hijacked anything. Do you have anything to offer re the subject at hand or is this non sequitur the best you can come up with?
I am considering putting “ You’re acting like a cowbird” on T-shirts. I think it would sell well so your post is not a total waste of time.
Well.....I still don't know what a "Cow bird" is. Do you?

I think maybe the poster was confusing this thread with another similar thread and posted his statement regarding hijacking before realizing it was different.

'Quien Sabe..........
 

Bob Dobbalina

Active member
Well.....I still don't know what a "Cow bird" is. Do you?

I think maybe the poster was confusing this thread with another similar thread and posted his statement regarding hijacking before realizing it was different.

'Quien Sabe..........
Iirc, cowbirds are known as such because they feed on the detritus and insects that collect on bovine backs.
 

Bob Dobbalina

Active member
Well.....I still don't know what a "Cow bird" is. Do you?

I think maybe the poster was confusing this thread with another similar thread and posted his statement regarding hijacking before realizing it was different.

'Quien Sabe..........
So I’m in agreement with you regarding your thesis. It’s quite likely a prior post of yours where I first encountered the idea that the “heart of the earth” began with the incarceration/submission.
 

E Thrower II

New Member
Since it been three days since I posted my response to this thread with no comments yet......I'll go ahead and provide the passages which will explain my reasoning regarding the "Three days and three nights" of scripture.

There are 10 passages in scripture that speak of the third day....so it should not be very difficult to find out what is meant by His original statement in [Matthew 12:4 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

I'll list them in the order they appear in each book for reference using the KJV.

[Matthew 16:21] From that time forth began Jesus to shew unto his disciples, how that he must go unto Jerusalem, and suffer many things of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be killed, and be raised again the third day.

We are told He must go to the city and suffer, be killed and raise again the 3rd day. Does it say from the time He entered the tomb? No!

[Matthew 17:22-23] And while they abode in Galilee, Jesus said unto them, The Son of man shall be betrayed into the hands of men: And they shall kill him, and the third day he shall be raised again. And they were exceeding sorry.

Again....He mentions being betrayed, killed and raising the 3rd day. No mention of the days beginning when He is entombed.

[Matthew 20:18-19] Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death, And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify him: and the third day he shall rise again.

He goes to the city and is betrayed, mocked, scourged and condemned to death....and crucified....and raised the 3rd day. The 3rd day from what?

If you count the time He spent in the tomb (enters at sundown on the day of preparation for the High Sabbath [John 19:31] and comes out shortly before sunrise)....this does not equal three full days but only a half of one of the days. So....it looks as if there were more things involved than just reposing in the tomb.

[Mark 8:31] And he began to teach them, that the Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders, and of the chief priests, and scribes, and be killed, and after three days rise again.

Three days from what? He suffered; was rejected; was killed and rose again.

[Mark 9:31] For he taught his disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill him; and after that he is killed, he shall rise the third day.

He was delivered to men, killed and rose the 3rd day. The 3rd day from what?

[Mark 10:33-34] Saying, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be delivered unto the chief priests, and unto the scribes; and they shall condemn him to death, and shall deliver him to the Gentiles: And they shall mock him, and shall scourge him, and shall spit upon him, and shall kill him: and the third day he shall rise again.

Goes to the city; is delivered; is mocked, scourged and spit upon; is killed and raises the 3rd day. It appears that many things are happening during these three days and not once are we being told it is from the time He enters the tomb.

[Luke 9:22] Saying, The Son of man must suffer many things, and be rejected of the elders and chief priests and scribes, and be slain, and be raised the third day.

He suffers; is rejected; is killed and raises the 3rd day. The 3rd day from what?

[Luke 18:31-33] Then he took unto him the twelve, and said unto them, Behold, we go up to Jerusalem, and all things that are written by the prophets concerning the Son of man shall be accomplished. For he shall be delivered unto the Gentiles, and shall be mocked, and spitefully entreated, and spitted on: And they shall scourge him, and put him to death: and the third day he shall rise again.

Many things here to consider transpiring during the three days.

[Luke 24:7] Saying, The Son of man must be delivered into the hands of sinful men, and be crucified, and the third day rise again.

The 3rd day from what?

[Luke 24:20-21] And how the chief priests and our rulers delivered him to be condemned to death, and have crucified him. But we trusted that it had been he which should have redeemed Israel: and beside all this, to day is the third day since these things were done.

Cleopas is saying to Yeshua that today is the 3rd day since ALL THESE THINGS were done! All what things?

It is beginning to indeed look like the three days and three nights includes more than just the time in the tomb.
This is interesting indeed! I'll look into this further. Thank you!
 

Hawkeye

Active member
Iirc, cowbirds are known as such because they feed on the detritus and insects that collect on bovine backs.
I looked up "Cowbirds" and found that they are birds who "brood' (hatch their eggs) in the nests of other birds.

Perhaps the poster thought I was laying an egg............in your nest?
 

Dant01

Member
.
The particulars regarding Jesus' three days and three nights in the heart of the
earth belong in a discussion related to Good Friday because this thread's focus is
supposed to be upon the heart of the earth (a.k.a. the netherworld) rather than
days and nights.

I've noticed over the years that quite a few posters assume that tangential thoughts
spun off an OP are "on topic" when in reality they're a complete change of subject
and very effective at redirecting a thread.

An interesting experiment sometime is to visit a thread that has a hundred or more
postings and see if it's still focused on the original OP. It's not uncommon to visit a
busy thread and find that many of the comments are related to subjects other than
the OP.
_
 

Hawkeye

Active member
So I’m in agreement with you regarding your thesis. It’s quite likely a prior post of yours where I first encountered the idea that the “heart of the earth” began with the incarceration/submission.
Do you have any idea what "Dant01" is talking about in post #15?
 

Bob Dobbalina

Active member
.
The particulars regarding Jesus' three days and three nights in the heart of the
earth belong in a discussion related to Good Friday because this thread's focus is
supposed to be upon the heart of the earth (a.k.a. the netherworld) rather than
days and nights.

I've noticed over the years that quite a few posters assume that tangential thoughts
spun off an OP are "on topic" when in reality they're a complete change of subject
and very effective at redirecting a thread.

An interesting experiment sometime is to visit a thread that has a hundred or more
postings and see if it's still focused on the original OP. It's not uncommon to visit a
busy thread and find that many of the comments are related to subjects other than
the OP.
_
So you’ve already decided that the “heart of the earth” is the netherworld- why?
 

Hawkeye

Active member
Not sure. I know that many threads get lost in tangents but i don’t see that happening here yet. 🤔
I think what he means is that you posted "Your" thread incorrectly because there was another ongoing thread that differed from your hypothesis......but was similar. He says you should have noticed that and not opened a new thread but instead participated in that thread even though its main point was totally different from yours.

Now.....I'm really not sure of this ....but for the life of me cannot figure out what he is getting at.....beginning with calling me a "Cowbird" and hijacking a thread I knew nothing about!
 

e v e

Well-known member
I’ve always understood the “heart of the earth” to mean the grave but have come to question such reasoning for reasons that I expect will be revealed through this exercise. Your thoughts?
its eden, currently sheol in the other world, as it has been since the fall.
 
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