In a discussion in another forum I stated that the Jewish people in the Galilee and Judea region discussed religious matters using Hebrew. I did studies years ago and this information came up. I cannot remember all the details about it. Also, that the book of Matthew was originally written in Hebrew. If you have any information on this discussion, I would appreciate it as I do not want to have to drag my folders out of boxes in the garage.
Where religious things discussed in Hebrew
- Thread starter balshan
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Hawkeye
Active member
Some information for you.........
"Matthew collected the oracles (ta logia) in the Hebrew language, and each interpreted them as best he could." - Papias (Eusebius, H.E. 3.39.16)
"Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect while Peter and Paul were preaching at Rome and laying the foundations of the church." - Irenaeus, Adv. Haer. 3.1.1
"As having learnt by tradition concerning the four Gospels, which alone are unquestionable in the Church of God under heaven, that first was written according to Matthew, who was once a tax collector but afterwards an apostle of Jesus Christ, who published it for those who from Judaism came to believe, composed as it was in the Hebrew language." - Origen (Eusebius, H.E. 6.25.4)
https://www.essene.com/B'nai-Amen/shemtov.htm
You must have a very well stocked garage.
"Matthew collected the oracles (ta logia) in the Hebrew language, and each interpreted them as best he could." - Papias (Eusebius, H.E. 3.39.16)
"Matthew also issued a written Gospel among the Hebrews in their own dialect while Peter and Paul were preaching at Rome and laying the foundations of the church." - Irenaeus, Adv. Haer. 3.1.1
"As having learnt by tradition concerning the four Gospels, which alone are unquestionable in the Church of God under heaven, that first was written according to Matthew, who was once a tax collector but afterwards an apostle of Jesus Christ, who published it for those who from Judaism came to believe, composed as it was in the Hebrew language." - Origen (Eusebius, H.E. 6.25.4)
https://www.essene.com/B'nai-Amen/shemtov.htm
You must have a very well stocked garage.
No as well as it used to be we downsized and I cried as I gave a truckload of books away to friends, charity shops, etc.
Hawkeye
Active member
Yes....that's always sad to see old friends go. But know that many folks will probably get immense enjoyment from your sacrifice............
I love that thought. My husband isn't a reader and he could not understand my sadness for seeing them go. I mean he is great but just sees books as taking up too much room. You thought will help me not be so sad as I still need to reduce the number I have. I love remembering something and finding where I read it. My memory isn't what it was.
Hawkeye
Active member
What was your interest regarding the "Hebrew" Matthew.....if I may.........
Oh something came up in the RC threads about all NT being in Greek. I have no doubt it was translated in Greek but I had recollection of Matthew being first in Hebrew. I even have a vague memory of a small fragment of the gospel in Hebrew being found. I know that Hebrew was considered the language in which to speak of religious matters in the Galilee/Judea region. There are a lot who belief the gospels were all in Greek and there was the LXX in the Temple and that the Greek LXX was written.
So I thought people who used to post here would have more knowledge than my poor memories from doing my course. I always like to check my memory.
SteveB
Well-known member
Check out John 14:26, and Matthew 13:52.
It's not about how good our memories are.
It's about the Holy Spirit's ability to bring it to our remembrance.
Thank you. I had to laugh now that I am so much older He is having a harder time bringing it to remembrance.
En Hakkore
Active member
There is no solid evidence that the New Testament gospel attributed to Matthew was penned in anything but Greek, the opinions of several writers in the first few Christian centuries notwithstanding. This is the mainstream position in New Testament scholarship and is based on internal considerations of the language, as well as the large portions of Mark incorporated near verbatim into its text. The existence of an earlier collection of Jesus' sayings in Aramaic, subsequently translated into Greek and used by the various New Testament authors (whether we call this Q or something else is immaterial), is certainly possible...
Kind regards,
Jonathan
And of course that makes it right. I tend to think he would write in Hebrew and there is some evidence to support that fact. Q is just a thought without evidence. It is a is a postulated lost textual source (https://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Q_Document). There is more evidence for a Hebrew version of Matthew than there is for Q.
But thank you for your input.
En Hakkore
Active member
Makes what right?
Aside from the musings of later writers who weren't there when the gospel was written, what actual evidence is there?
You don't think there was a collection of Jesus' sayings in Aramaic and/or Greek that predates the writing of the gospels? When do you think Matthew was written and do you think it was based purely on oral tradition?
Kind regards,
Jonathan
No proof of these writings existing just musings of later theologians.
En Hakkore
Active member
The same can be said for the gospel of Matthew being written in Hebrew and later translated into Greek. That said, are you going to answer the several questions I asked or continue to ignore them?
Kind regards,
Jonathan
I am not interested in interacting with you. You go for in for pontifications without facts that suit your beliefs. I wanted to have a civil discussion about Matthew being written in Hebrew. My op was clear. Your question take it off track. The one thing about the earlier writings is that they were closer to the time Matt was written, whereas you go to writers who have thousands of years between Matt and them.
So my conclusion is that your have no evidence for your assumptions.
En Hakkore
Active member
How is challenging the idea that Matthew was written in Hebrew taking your thread off track? Do you want to explore the topic and both sides of the argument or just solicit confirmations of your existing view?
Not close enough to have infallible opinions as to what language this gospel was written in. As I've already pointed out, contemporary scholars analyze the text itself and from that determine it was composed in Greek and was not a translation of a Semitic original. If you have evidence to the contrary, aside from the opinions of a handful of ancient authors, by all means present it...
Kind regards,
Jonathan
SteveB
Well-known member
Ok.
I'm 60 now, and I suppose that I'll get to see when I get older.
Until then, I'll stick with John 14:26, and Matthew 13:52.
I am 68 and my husband 73 and sometimes we need both of us to get the recall we want. But I accept both passages and eventually it comes just slower. I particularly hate knowing a word and it will not come when I need it.
SteveB
Well-known member
Isn't that part of being the One flesh?
And did it ever occur to you that when we think we need something isn't actually when we need it? I agree not getting something I want, when I think I want it is frustrating..... but isn't that just a matter of the flesh wanting what it wants, when it wants it?
Oh.... I suppose I should say this too.....
I use BLB.org regularly for my verse searches, because I don't remember everything I read. I do however recall words, ideas, themes, etc.... BLB has an awesome search engine, and it helps a lot. A whole LOT!
So..... if your struggle is dealing with the stuff you post online--- don't feel ashamed to use blb.org.
Here's an example of a search....
Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
"grac*" primary search results are listed below along with dictionary aides, FAQs, and Lexiconc.
www.blueletterbible.org
I selected Grace. But because there are numerous variations of grace--- grace, gracious, graciously, etc...., and I wanted them all--- I used the asterisk as a wildcard symbol at the end of grac*.
So, it picks up every variation of grace. I got back 176 instances in the NKJV. It has different translations too you can use.
Enjoy.
We are coming up to our 50th Anniversary in March.Isn't that part of being the One flesh?
And did it ever occur to you that when we think we need something isn't actually when we need it? I agree not getting something I want, when I think I want it is frustrating..... but isn't that just a matter of the flesh wanting what it wants, when it wants it?
Oh.... I suppose I should say this too.....
I use BLB.org regularly for my verse searches, because I don't remember everything I read. I do however recall words, ideas, themes, etc.... BLB has an awesome search engine, and it helps a lot. A whole LOT!
So..... if your struggle is dealing with the stuff you post online--- don't feel ashamed to use blb.org.
Here's an example of a search....
Genesis 1:1 (NKJV)
"grac*" primary search results are listed below along with dictionary aides, FAQs, and Lexiconc.
I selected Grace. But because there are numerous variations of grace--- grace, gracious, graciously, etc...., and I wanted them all--- I used the asterisk as a wildcard symbol at the end of grac*.
So, it picks up every variation of grace. I got back 176 instances in the NKJV. It has different translations too you can use.
View attachment 130
Enjoy.
I agree sometimes that is true other times I want the word when I am speaking not later. Especially when speaking with our sons.
I use the BLB as well, for verses. But thanks for the help on more in depth searches. I think of themes, concepts and then I need to find out verses that I need etc. But this started because I had a vague memory when I was doing a course of a fragment of Matt being found written in Hebrew. I did not want to go through the boxes in the garage, so I was trying to see if anyone else could help with support for my recall of this fact. I was struggling to refine my search on the net to get the info.
I always forget the * wildcard application. My struggle is I remember something but cannot always recall the evidence to support what I remember. It is not all the time, it is something different that I remembered.