SavedByTheLord
Well-known member
Yes the Bible says that I AM means God Almighty and Christ said he was I AM in John 8:58.
Where will you spend eternity?
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Runningman
Well-known member
According to Exodus 3:14,15, YHWH is not Jesus. It doesn't even say that. At all. Therefore I don't believe it. God supports my decision.
SavedByTheLord
Well-known member
But according to John 8:58, the Lord Jesus Christ is I AM. So Jesus Christ is God.
Runningman
Well-known member
I disagree with your insertion of "Christ is God" into John 8:58. For one, it doesn't plainly say Chris is God. Two, there is more than one way to understand John 8:58 so it doesn't contradict Exodus 3:14,15.
SavedByTheLord
Well-known member
Jesus is not called the Alpha and Omega at all. Here is what he said of himself and his God that you do not believe him is all.
John 12:49 KJV: For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
John 7:16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
John 5:19. “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”
No -- Here is what Jesus said of himself and his God.
John 12:49 KJV: For I have not spoken of myself; but the Father which sent me, he gave me a commandment, what I should say, and what I should speak.
John 7:16. Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me.
John 5 :17 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
John 5:19. “Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.”
SavedByTheLord
Well-known member
Rubbish.
Heb 1:8 says, “But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne O God”. Thus, Christ is called God.
In Heb 1:6, it says of Christ, “let all the angles of God worship him”. The angels only worship God, so Christ is God.
In Heb 1:2, it says of Jesus Christ, “by whom also he made the worlds”. So, Christ is the Creator, that is, God Almighty.
In Isa 9:6, it refers to Christ as “The Mighty God”. Again, this proves Jesus Christ is God.
Runningman
Well-known member
"I am" in John 8:58 translates to "ego eimi" in Greek. This phrase is use hundreds times in the New Testament where not one single time does it mean someone is God. You don't have a point.
Jesus said he's a man within the immediate context of John 8:58
John 8
40But now you are trying to kill Me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham never did such a thing
SavedByTheLord
Well-known member
Yes Christ is God and man, so John 8:40 is fine with that. But this destroys your false belief.
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. - John 8:58
Runningman
Well-known member
Your "I am" argument is so weak because Exodus 3:14,15 contradicts it and it's provable Jesus isn't YHWH.
SavedByTheLord
Well-known member
My I Am agreement is irrefutable.
Game set match
Runningman
Well-known member
Oh it's irrefutable? I have refuted every single last word that has come out of your brain every day for weeks now.
"Ego eimi" in John 9:9 when a man is talking says “I am the man.”
Therefore, since John 8:58 also contradicts Exodus 3:14,15 your "Jesus is God" belief has been proven false.
Tell me where you see a mention of Jesus in the below passage.
Exodus 3
14God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”
15God also told Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The LORD,[YHWH] the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered in every generation.
SavedByTheLord
Well-known member
I have it in English. God the Almighty provides His word to people in their own language.
24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I am he, ye shall die in your sins.
58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I AM. - John 8:24, 58
Runningman
Well-known member
The "I AM" is YHWH.
Psalm 110:1 proves Jesus is not YHWH.
1The LORD[YHWH] said to my Lord:[Jesus]
“Sit at My right hand
until I make Your enemies
a footstool for Your feet.”
Jesus denied being God:
“Why do you call Me good?” Jesus replied. “No one is good except God alone” – Luke 18:19
“Why do you ask Me about what is good?” Jesus replied. “There is only One who is good.” – Matthew 19:17
God is greater than Jesus:
“the Father is greater than I.” – John 14:28
“My Father who has given them to Me is greater than all.” – John 10:29
Jesus worshipped the Only True God:
"that they may know You, the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom You have sent.” John 17:3
“He went out to the mountain to pray, and continued all night in prayer to God.” – Luke 6:12
“the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve,” – Matthew 20:28
The disciples did not believe Jesus is God:
“Jesus of Nazareth, a Man attested by God to you by miracles, wonders, and signs which God did through Him in your midst, as you yourselves also know” – Acts 2:22
“The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, glorified His Servant Jesus, “ – Acts 3:13
“God, having raised up His Servant Jesus” – Acts 3:26
SavedByTheLord
Well-known member
Not one of the has Jesus Christ saying He is not God.
Now you are seeing things.
The gospel of John declares that Jesus Christ is God in its first verse. Referring to Christ, John wrote:
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. - John 1:1
The Bible is quite clear that God created all things. This is clearly shown in Genesis 1 and other parts of the Old Testament (Exo 20:11, Exo 31:17, et al).
In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. - Gen 1:1
But the New Testament declares that Jesus Christ created all things. So, the following verses prove that Jesus Christ is God Almighty.
All things were made by him; and without him was not anything made that was made. - John 1:3
He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not. - John 1:10
For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him: - Col 1:16
In the following verse Jesus declares Himself as “I am”.
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am. - John 8:58
God used the same phrase about himself in the Old Testament. That phrase means always existed, always will exist. That means Christ is God.
And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you. - Exo 3:14
In the following verse, Thomas calls Jesus Christ, “God”. Christ did not correct him.
And Thomas answered and said unto him, My Lord and my God. - John 20:28
Runningman
Well-known member
YHWH is the I AM, the only God, creator of the universe, and the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob.
Exodus 3
14God said to Moses, “I AM WHO I AM. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: ‘I AM has sent me to you.’ ”
15God also told Moses, “Say to the Israelites, ‘The LORD[YHWH], the God of your fathers—the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob—has sent me to you.’ This is My name forever, and this is how I am to be remembered in every generation.
Jesus is the servant of the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. Therefore Jesus is not God. You have no idea what you're talking about.
Acts 3
13The God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified His servant Jesus. You handed Him over and rejected Him before Pilate, even though he had decided to release Him.
SavedByTheLord
Well-known member
You have already been shown that you err.
Runningman
Well-known member
I have no errors on this point. Let's be clear, this is outreach for your sake.
SavedByTheLord
Well-known member
I am here as an outreach to you and others who deny the deity of Christ. You are eternally wrong.