Where will you spend eternity?

Then you don't understand Scripture.
Because not only is Scriputre exhaustively clear that Jesus IS deity.

If I were to continue posting to you, harassing you, and telliing you that 2 + 2 isn't 4, like you mistakenly believe, but that 2 + 2 is actually 37, would you accept my claim? Of course not.

And that's why we refuse to accept your denial of the deity of Christ.



Does anyone believe that?
I certainly don't.



That's simply and demonstrably false:

Isa. 9:6 For to us a child is born, [...] and his name shall be called [...] Mighty God,
John 1:1 ... and the Word was God. [...] 14 And the Word became flesh [...]
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
John 20:28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!
Acts 20:28 [...] to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.
Rom. 9:5 [...] is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.
Eph. 5:5 ... has no inheritance in the kingdom of the Christ and God.
Phil. 2:5
[...] Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, [...]
Col. 2:9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
Titus 2:13
[...] the appearing of the glory of our great God and SaviorJesus Christ,
Heb. 1:8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, [...]
2Pet. 1:1 [...] by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

But you don't care what Scripture says. You just want to tear these passages apart, and try to claim they don't teach what they clearly say, just like the Mormons deny all the "only one God" passages.

I understand scripture very well. I have already proven Jesus is not God. Jesus is God's Son and servant. You don't understand any of the verses you have quoted. You have a theology decorated with Bible verses, but the verses don't actually say what your theology says. Your belief system appears to be one giant lie.

Exodus 3
14And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Acts 3
13The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.


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Then you don't understand Scripture.
Because not only is Scriputre exhaustively clear that Jesus IS deity.

If I were to continue posting to you, harassing you, and telliing you that 2 + 2 isn't 4, like you mistakenly believe, but that 2 + 2 is actually 37, would you accept my claim? Of course not.

And that's why we refuse to accept your denial of the deity of Christ.



Does anyone believe that?
I certainly don't.



That's simply and demonstrably false:

Isa. 9:6 For to us a child is born, [...] and his name shall be called [...] Mighty God,
John 1:1 ... and the Word was God. [...] 14 And the Word became flesh [...]
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
John 20:28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!
Acts 20:28 [...] to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.
Rom. 9:5 [...] is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.
Eph. 5:5 ... has no inheritance in the kingdom of the Christ and God.
Phil. 2:5
[...] Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, [...]
Col. 2:9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
Titus 2:13
[...] the appearing of the glory of our great God and SaviorJesus Christ,
Heb. 1:8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, [...]
2Pet. 1:1 [...] by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

But you don't care what Scripture says. You just want to tear these passages apart, and try to claim they don't teach what they clearly say, just like the Mormons deny all the "only one God" passages.
I love the set of scriptures and the emphasized words.
 
Isa. 9:6 For to us a child is born, [...] and his name shall be called [...] Mighty God,
John 1:1 ... and the Word was God. [...] 14 And the Word became flesh [...]
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
John 20:28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!
Acts 20:28 [...] to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.
Rom. 9:5 [...] is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.
Eph. 5:5 ... has no inheritance in the kingdom of the Christ and God.
Phil. 2:5
[...] Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, [...]
Col. 2:9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
Titus 2:13
[...] the appearing of the glory of our great God and SaviorJesus Christ,
Heb. 1:8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, [...]
2Pet. 1:1 [...] by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:

But you don't care what Scripture says. You just want to tear these passages apart, and try to claim they don't teach what they clearly say, just like the Mormons deny all the "only one God" passages.
Strawmen, easily refuted by correct grammar or by common sense.
 
Strawmen, easily refuted by correct grammar or by common sense.
So you really cannot.

Theo's 14 verses are irrefutable. here they are.

Isa. 9:6 For to us a child is born, [...] and his name shall be called [...] Mighty God,
John 1:1 ... and the Word was God. [...] 14 And the Word became flesh [...]
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
John 20:28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!
Acts 20:28 [...] to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.
Rom. 9:5 [...] is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.
Eph. 5:5 ... has no inheritance in the kingdom of the Christ and God.
Phil. 2:5
[...] Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, [...]
Col. 2:9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
Titus 2:13
[...] the appearing of the glory of our great God and SaviorJesus Christ,
Heb. 1:8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, [...]
2Pet. 1:1 [...] by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
 
So you really cannot.

Theo's 14 verses are irrefutable. here they are.

Isa. 9:6 For to us a child is born, [...] and his name shall be called [...] Mighty God,
John 1:1 ... and the Word was God. [...] 14 And the Word became flesh [...]
John 8:58 Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”
John 20:28 Thomas answered him, “My Lord and my God!
Acts 20:28 [...] to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.
Rom. 9:5 [...] is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.
Eph. 5:5 ... has no inheritance in the kingdom of the Christ and God.
Phil. 2:5
[...] Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, [...]
Col. 2:9 For in him the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,
Titus 2:13
[...] the appearing of the glory of our great God and SaviorJesus Christ,
Heb. 1:8 But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever, [...]
2Pet. 1:1 [...] by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:
When they were refuted you shut your ears and eyes tightly. So far I have gone through each of those verses twice and successfully challenged them without a rebuttal or proved them wrong.
 
I understand scripture very well. I have already proven Jesus is not God. Jesus is God's Son and servant. You don't understand any of the verses you have quoted. You have a theology decorated with Bible verses, but the verses don't actually say what your theology says. Your belief system appears to be one giant lie.

Exodus 3
14And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I AM hath sent me unto you. 15And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.

Acts 3
13The God of Abraham, and of Isaac, and of Jacob, the God of our fathers, hath glorified his Son Jesus; whom ye delivered up, and denied him in the presence of Pilate, when he was determined to let him go.

Jesus is called our God and Savior in Titus. Be careful.
 
When they were refuted you shut your ears and eyes tightly. So far I have gone through each of those verses twice and successfully challenged them without a rebuttal or proved them wrong.

You claim you were "successful".
I claim you were NOT.
SbtL claims that you were NOT.

So why is your OPINION more valid than anyone else's?

What you don't seem to understand is that even if you were right (which we don't believe you are), then you are wasting your time if you are incapable of convincing ANYONE.

Falsely claiming we "have shut our eyes and ears" is nothing but a worthless cop-out.
 
Great God and Savior Jesus are two different persons.

You are incorrect.
The Greek grammar in Tit. 2:13 DEMANDS that "great God and Saviour" are speaking of the SAME person, not "two different persons".

It is the exact SAME structure where HF is called, "the God and Father".
It is the exact SAME structure where Jesus is called, "Lord and Saviour".
 
You claim you were "successful".
I claim you were NOT.
SbtL claims that you were NOT.
You aren't a jury of my peers. You have a strong bias toward anything that affirms or assists the survival of the Trinity doctrine and then treats anyone and everyone else that strands contrary to it as hostile.

So why is your OPINION more valid than anyone else's?
My opinions are facts found in the Bible. Your "God Man" doctrine is fiction.

What you don't seem to understand is that even if you were right (which we don't believe you are), then you are wasting your time if you are incapable of convincing ANYONE.

Falsely claiming we "have shut our eyes and ears" is nothing but a worthless cop-out.
It is not you all I am worried about convincing. I will try, but really I am concerned about the generations to come. You people need armies of people to oppose you and make sure your false doctrines don't get much attention. I'll do it until others assist me.
 
You are incorrect.
The Greek grammar in Tit. 2:13 DEMANDS that "great God and Saviour" are speaking of the SAME person, not "two different persons".

It is the exact SAME structure where HF is called, "the God and Father".
It is the exact SAME structure where Jesus is called, "Lord and Saviour".
Person 1 = Great God
Person 2 = Savior Jesus

Grammatically that is two different persons.
 
You aren't a jury of my peers. You have a strong bias toward anything that affirms or assists the survival of the Trinity doctrine and then treats anyone and everyone else that strands contrary to it as hostile.

You have "a strong bias" AGAINST anything regarding the Trinity.
So why should anyone take you seriously?!

My opinions are facts found in the Bible. Your "God Man" doctrine is fiction.

99.9999999% of professing Christians disagree with you.
So why should anyone care in the least about your worthless opinion?
 
Person 1 = Great God
Person 2 = Savior Jesus

Grammatically that is two different persons.

With all due respect, you are 100% IGNORANT of Greek grammar.
The grammar is IRREFUTABLE.

In Greek "article" "substantive" "kai" "substantive" means that BOTH substantives refer to the SAME person.
 
Jesus is called our God and Savior in Titus. Be careful.
No he is not. The Greek word order reads:

The appearing of the glory of the great God and of our Savior Jesus Christ.

It is perfectly intelligible in its word order. Trinitarians break us the close genitive constructs and mangle the construction to make Jesus mean God, but it is uncalled for, both grammatically and theologically, where "the appearing of the glory of Jesus Christ" conflicts with Jesus's own account in the gospels, where he says he will appear with the glory of his Father (rather than in his own glory) Matt 16:27.

In fact there is nowhere else in scripture where the "appearing of the glory of Jesus Christ" is referred to. How Trinitarians can mangle this so is beyond belief.
 
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No he is not. The Greek word order reads:

The appearing of the glory of the great God and of our Savior Jesus Christ.

It is perfectly intelligible in its word order. Trinitarians break us the close genitive constructs and mangle the construction to make Jesus mean God, but it is uncalled for, both grammatically and theologically, where "the appearing of the glory of Jesus Christ" conflicts with Jesus's own account in the gospels, where he says he will appear with the glory of his Father (rather than in his own glory) Matt 16:27.

In fact there is nowhere else in scripture where the "appearing of the glory of Jesus Christ" is referred to. How Trinitarians can mangle this so is beyond belief.
You have a false precept and that is why you err. Remember the scripture cannot be broken. Speaking about the Lord Jesus Christ, God the Word of God made flesh, John wrote:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
 
Great God and Savior Jesus are two different persons.
Read it again.

9 Exhort bondservants to be obedient to their own masters, to be well pleasing in all things, not answering back, 10 not pilfering, but showing all good fidelity, that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things.

11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
 
Read it again.

9 Exhort bondservants to be obedient to their own masters, to be well pleasing in all things, not answering back, 10 not pilfering, but showing all good fidelity, that they may adorn the doctrine of God our Savior in all things.
Titus 2:10 "Not purloining, but shewing all good fidelity; that they may adorn the doctrine of the Saviour of us, God, in all things."

That God is our Savior is standard OT doctrine. Salvation is "of God" (Luke 3:6, Acts 28:28) and "by Christ" (1 Thess 5:9).

11 For the grace of God that brings salvation has appeared to all men, 12 teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly in the present age, 13 looking for the blessed hope and glorious appearing of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ, 14 who gave Himself for us, that He might redeem us from every lawless deed and purify for Himself His own special people, zealous for good works.
The insertion of "Glorious appearing" in Titus 2:13 in place of "appearing of the glory of the great God" is called destroying the grammar to make the sentence mean something other than it says.
 
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You have a false precept and that is why you err. Remember the scripture cannot be broken. Speaking about the Lord Jesus Christ, God the Word of God made flesh, John wrote:

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 The same was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.
4 In him was life; and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shineth in darkness; and the darkness comprehended it not.
6 There was a man sent from God, whose name was John.
7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.
8 He was not that Light, but was sent to bear witness of that Light.
9 That was the true Light, which lighteth every man that cometh into the world.
10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him, and the world knew him not.
11 He came unto his own, and his own received him not.
12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name:
13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
14 And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.
Answer my point with a grammatical and theological argument specific to Titus 2:13. I am not a unitarian and I won't be lectured as if I was.
 
Answer my point with a grammatical and theological argument specific to Titus 2:13. I am not a unitarian and I won't be lectured as if I was.
Here is the passage. The phrase bolded in verse 13 is shown to apply just to one person. Himself is singular. So “the great God and our Saviour“ applies only to Jesus Christ, so Christ is called “the great God”.

13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ;
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works. - Titus 2:13-14
 
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