Which came first in the logical order…

Sketo said:
Is your existence due to first your parents choice to come together and have you, then God reacts to their choice by creating you?

…or…

Is your existence due to first Gods choice to create you, and Gods determined means to bring you into existence was your parents choosing to come together and have you?


Bonus question: Where does your grandparents choice, to have your parents, fall in the logical order of your existence?

CCP​
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Simplest thing in the world!!!! In all things: GOD MOVES FIRST. God never "Reacts".
 
Sketo said:
Is your existence due to first your parents choice to come together and have you, then God reacts to their choice by creating you?

…or…

Is your existence due to first Gods choice to create you, and Gods determined means to bring you into existence was your parents choosing to come together and have you?


Bonus question: Where does your grandparents choice, to have your parents, fall in the logical order of your existence?

CCP​
Click to expand...

How did God create you?…In other words How did God determine you to come into existence?

Did he just snap his fingers and there you were… or was it by means including your parents coming together to have you?

How does God create your thoughts?… in other words How does God determine your thoughts to come into existence?

Does he just snap his fingers and there your thought is, for no antecedent reason, or was it by means of me typing these words on this post?

You did not choose to think about how God created you to come into existence just like you did not choose to think about how these words caused you to think in the first place.

…
 
Sketo said:
How did God create you?…In other words How did God determine you to come into existence?

Did he just snap his fingers and there you were… or was it by means including your parents coming together to have you?

How does God create your thoughts?… in other words How does God determine your thoughts to come into existence?

Does he just snap his fingers and there your thought is, for no antecedent reason, or was it by means of me typing these words on this post?

You did not choose to think about how God created you to come into existence just like you did not choose to think about how these words caused you to think in the first place.
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We can't change the past. But we are shaped by the influences in our past. But we will be judged with the moral libertarian choices we made so far.
 
Kampioen said:
We can't change the past. But we are shaped by the influences in our past. But we will be judged with the moral libertarian choices we made so far.
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Ditto. If our choices are not freely made they are no choices at all , just an illusion and delusion .
 
Christian said:
Ditto. If our choices are not freely made they are no choices at all , just an illusion and delusion .
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So if your choices are an “illusion and delusion” because you did not “freely” (independent from God) make them…

…that would mean you yourself are an “illusion and delusion” because you did not “freely” (independent from God) make yourself… correct?

…
 
Christian said:
Ditto. If our choices are not freely made they are no choices at all , just an illusion and delusion .
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So "will" has to mean "free will"...
And "choice" has to mean "free choice", or "unlimited/unrestricted choice".

I love how anti-Calvinists are constantly REDEFINING terms to try to match their false theology...
 
Sketo said:
Is your existence due to first your parents choice to come together and have you, then God reacts to their choice by creating you?

…or…

Is your existence due to first Gods choice to create you, and Gods determined means to bring you into existence was your parents choosing to come together and have you?


Bonus question: Where does your grandparents choice, to have your parents, fall in the logical order of your existence?

CCP​
Click to expand...
Second one
 
Theo1689 said:
So "will" has to mean "free will"...
And "choice" has to mean "free choice", or "unlimited/unrestricted choice".

I love how anti-Calvinists are constantly REDEFINING terms to try to match their false theology...
Click to expand...

This is the problem with them adding the unjustified term “free” without a reference point. What is it “free” from?

In the context of my OP the question would be: Is your will or choice “free” from your parents choice to have you?

Could your choice have “freely” come into existence apart from your parents choice to have you?

Another Bonus Question:
In the “free” will view, How would God know your choice if your grandparents instead chose not to come together and have your parents?

…
 
Sketo said:
This is the problem with them adding the unjustified term “free” without a reference point. What is it “free” from?

In the context of my OP the question would be: Is your will or choice “free” from your parents choice to have you?

Could your choice have “freely” come into existence apart from your parents choice to have you?

Another Bonus Question:
In the “free” will view, How would God know your choice if your grandparents instead chose not to come together and have your parents?
Click to expand...

We are not free from previous choices dealt to us, including if it leads to our nonexistence.

Our choices are libertarianly **free from God** within the niche that He creates for us within His omni-attributes.

Nonetheless God exhaustively knows an open future.
 
Kampioen said:
We are not free from previous choices dealt to us, including if it leads to our nonexistence.
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a.k.a. Determinism

Kampioen said:
Our choices are libertarianly **free from God** within the niche that He creates for us within His omni-attributes.
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In order for you hold to your view, and remain consistent, then you must also hold that your coming into existence, to “make those choices”, is also **free from God**… or you contradict your first statement above.
…
 
Kampioen said:
Our choices are libertarianly **free from God** within the niche that He creates for us within His omni-attributes.
Click to expand...

Do you believe God only creates us then we continue to live, move, and have our being independent from God?

Or do you agree with scripture that, after creating us, God must also continue to sustain every aspect of our existence moment by moment?

…
 
Sketo said:
a.k.a. Determinism
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Yes, by the parents, not necessarily determinism by God.

In order for you hold to your view, and remain consistent, then you must also hold that your coming into existence, to “make those choices”, is also **free from God**… or you contradict your first statement above.
Click to expand...

Our coming into existence is subject to our parents' "free from God" choices just as our own choices are "free from God" ie libertarian. So there is no contradiction.
 
Sketo said:
a.k.a. Determinism



In order for you hold to your view, and remain consistent, then you must also hold that your coming into existence, to “make those choices”, is also **free from God**… or you contradict your first statement above.
…
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In any case you are lasboring under the assumption there is a one to one correspondance between physical birth and regeneration

In other words you beg the question and assume what you need to prove
 
fltom said:
In any case you are lasboring under the assumption there is a one to one correspondance between physical birth and regeneration
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What are you talking about? This conversation has nothing to do with regeneration. It’s a conversation on the logical order of how you came into existence.

Thread 'Which came first in the logical order…'
https://forums.carm.org/threads/which-came-first-in-the-logical-order….10352/

fltom said:
In other words you beg the question and assume what you need to prove
Click to expand...

There is nothing to prove unless you deny the current cause and effect reality that we all live, move, and have our being in.

…
 
Kampioen said:
Yes, by the parents, not necessarily determinism by God.

Our coming into existence is subject to our parents' "free from God" choices just as our own choices are "free from God" ie libertarian. So there is no contradiction.
Click to expand...

Do you have any justification for any of this or are you just making this stuff up on the fly?

…
 
Sketo said:
What are you talking about? This conversation has nothing to do with regeneration. It’s a conversation on the logical order of how you came into existence.

Thread 'Which came first in the logical order…'
https://forums.carm.org/threads/which-came-first-in-the-logical-order….10352/



There is nothing to prove unless you deny the current cause and effect reality that we all live, move, and have our being in.

…
Click to expand...
Fine

If there is no attempt to compare physical birth to spiritual birth so be it
 
fltom said:
Fine

If there is no attempt to compare physical birth to spiritual birth so be it
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So be what?

Care to answer the OP before you run…

Is your existence due to first your parents choice to come together and have you, then God reacts to their choice by creating you?

…or…

Is your existence due to first Gods choice to create you, and Gods determined means to bring you into existence was your parents choosing to come together and have you?


Bonus question: Where does your grandparents choice, to have your parents, fall in the logical order of your existence?

…
 
Sketo said:
Do you have any justification for any of this or are you just making this stuff up on the fly?
Click to expand...

A person doesn't choose to come into existence. So your attempt to relate it to our libertarian present choice is meaningless.
 
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