Which Generation?

robycop3

Well-known member
Strongs say generation can mean...race, family, generation
Right-and I believe that when Jesus said "This generation shall not pass away..." I believe he was referring to the Jewish people, as He was addressing only Jews & the events didn't occur while that body of Jews was alive.
 

robycop3

Well-known member
The oracle concerning Egypt.
Behold, the Lord is riding on a swift cloud and is about to come to Egypt;
The idols of Egypt will tremble at His presence,
And the heart of the Egyptians will melt within them. “So I will incite Egyptians against Egyptians;
And they will each fight against his brother and each against his neighbor,
City against city and kingdom against kingdom. “Then the spirit of the Egyptians will be demoralized within them;
And I will confound their strategy,
So that they will resort to idols and ghosts of the dead
And to mediums and spiritists. “Moreover, I will deliver the Egyptians into the hand of a cruel master,
And a mighty king will rule over them,” declares the Lord God of hosts.
[Isaiah 19:1:1-4]

Did He literally come on a cloud here or is this apocalyptic language used by Isaiah to describe impending judgment upon the nation of Egypt? It was the latter.
He could've come invisibly. I believe that came to pass when the Assyrian empire was crumbling & some Egyptians fought for them & others against them, sometimes pitting Egyptian against Egyptian. And the mighty king who ruled them was nebuchadnezzar. The cruel master was likely one of Nebby's generals who stayed in Egypt to actually run their show.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
He could've come invisibly. I believe that came to pass when the Assyrian empire was crumbling & some Egyptians fought for them & others against them, sometimes pitting Egyptian against Egyptian. And the mighty king who ruled them was nebuchadnezzar. The cruel master was likely one of Nebby's generals who stayed in Egypt to actually run their show.
But He didnt come literally in the cloud, but was apocalyptic language used by those writers.

In Isaiah 10, God said the Assyrian nation was His axe He wielded to punish the Jews. But they weren’t literally an axe, but the instrument employed by God.
 

robycop3

Well-known member
Nowhere in the Olivet Discourse is there a lapse in timing. ALL OF IT was fulfilled in AD 70.
No, it WASN'T. The only things that occurred then was the destruction of J & the temple. There was no great trib worldwide, and Jesus hasn't yet returned.

Look at the times in the OT the day of the Lord was used as language of judgment upon a nation. There are a few times of “Him coming in the clouds” but that was apocalyptic language used to describe His coming judgment upon that particular nation.

Draw near, O nations, to hear; and listen, O peoples!
Let the earth and all it contains hear, and the world and all that springs from it. For the Lord’s indignation is against all the nations,
And His wrath against all their armies;
He has utterly destroyed them,
He has given them over to slaughter. So their slain will be thrown out,
And their corpses will give off their stench,
And the mountains will be drenched with their blood. And all the host of heaven will wear away,
And the sky will be rolled up like a scroll;
All their hosts will also wither away
As a leaf withers from the vine,
Or as one withers from the fig tree. For My sword is satiated in heaven,
Behold it shall descend for judgment upon Edom
And upon the people whom I have devoted to destruction. The sword of the Lord is filled with blood,
It is sated with fat, with the blood of lambs and goats,
With the fat of the kidneys of rams.
For the Lord has a sacrifice in Bozrah
And a great slaughter in the land of Edom. Wild oxen will also fall with them
And young bulls with strong ones;
Thus their land will be soaked with blood,
And their dust become greasy with fat. For the Lord has a day of vengeance,
A year of recompense for the cause of Zion.
[Isaiah 34:1-8]
Those events haven't yet occurred, either.
The sky did not literally roll up like a scroll, and that same apocalyptic language is used in Revelation 6:14.

“And when I extinguish you,
I will cover the heavens and darken their stars;
I will cover the sun with a cloud
And the moon will not give its light. “All the shining lights in the heavens
I will darken over you
And will set darkness on your land,”
Declares the Lord God.
[Ezekiel 32:7-8]

Again, this is apocalyptic language used to express God’s impending judgment upon a nation(Egypt).


Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
Cruel, with fury and burning anger,
To make the land a desolation;
And He will exterminate its sinners from it. For the stars of heaven and their constellations
Will not flash forth their light;
The sun will be dark when it rises
And the moon will not shed its light. Thus I will punish the world for its evil
And the wicked for their iniquity;
I will also put an end to the arrogance of the proud
And abase the haughtiness of the ruthless. I will make mortal man scarcer than pure gold
And mankind than the gold of Ophir. Therefore I will make the heavens tremble,
And the earth will be shaken from its place
At the fury of the Lord of hosts
In the day of His burning anger. And it will be that like a hunted gazelle,
Or like sheep with none to gather them,
They will each turn to his own people,
And each one flee to his own land. Anyone who is found will be thrust through,
And anyone who is captured will fall by the sword. Their little ones also will be dashed to pieces
Before their eyes;
Their houses will be plundered
And their wives ravished.
[Isaiah 13:9-16]
Actually, the nation that was punished then was BABYLON. You stopped to soon.
Please learn a little history. The king of Babylon had gone forth from the city of Babylon with his army to fight the medes & Persians elsewhere, leaving his son Belshazzar in charge. During that time, a big earthquake hit the land, but not the city itself, producing widespread destruction & clouds of smoke & dust that obscured the heavens. In many places, it came as a huge dust storm, making the sky appear to have rolled up.(I know you've seen documentary films of similar dust storms before) An army of Medes had quietly approached the city, & when they were ready to strike, God wrote the handwriting on the wall for Belshazzar & his homies who were having a big party. The Medes entered the city thru its aqueducts & captured it, killing Belshazzar & crew. (while sparing Daniel)
Again, another clear reference to judgment coming upon a nation(Babylon) and apocalyptic language was used. The same apocalyptic language used in the Olivet Discourse.
Nowhere in the Olivet Discourse is there a lapse in timing. ALL OF IT was fulfilled in AD 70. Look at the times in the OT the day of the Lord was used as language of judgment upon a nation. There are a few times of “Him coming in the clouds” but that was apocalyptic language used to describe His coming judgment upon that particular nation.

Draw near, O nations, to hear; and listen, O peoples!
Let the earth and all it contains hear, and the world and all that springs from it. For the Lord’s indignation is against all the nations,
And His wrath against all their armies;
He has utterly destroyed them,
He has given them over to slaughter. So their slain will be thrown out,
And their corpses will give off their stench,
And the mountains will be drenched with their blood. And all the host of heaven will wear away,
And the sky will be rolled up like a scroll;
All their hosts will also wither away
As a leaf withers from the vine,
Or as one withers from the fig tree. For My sword is satiated in heaven,
Behold it shall descend for judgment upon Edom
And upon the people whom I have devoted to destruction. The sword of the Lord is filled with blood,
It is sated with fat, with the blood of lambs and goats,
With the fat of the kidneys of rams.
For the Lord has a sacrifice in Bozrah
And a great slaughter in the land of Edom. Wild oxen will also fall with them
And young bulls with strong ones;
Thus their land will be soaked with blood,
And their dust become greasy with fat. For the Lord has a day of vengeance,
A year of recompense for the cause of Zion.
[Isaiah 34:1-8]

The sky did not literally roll up like a scroll, and that same apocalyptic language is used in Revelation 6:14.

“And when I extinguish you,
I will cover the heavens and darken their stars;
I will cover the sun with a cloud
And the moon will not give its light. “All the shining lights in the heavens
I will darken over you
And will set darkness on your land,”
Declares the Lord God.
[Ezekiel 32:7-8]

Again, this is apocalyptic language used to express God’s impending judgment upon a nation(Egypt).


Behold, the day of the Lord is coming,
Cruel, with fury and burning anger,
To make the land a desolation;
And He will exterminate its sinners from it. For the stars of heaven and their constellations
Will not flash forth their light;
The sun will be dark when it rises
And the moon will not shed its light. Thus I will punish the world for its evil
And the wicked for their iniquity;
I will also put an end to the arrogance of the proud
And abase the haughtiness of the ruthless. I will make mortal man scarcer than pure gold
And mankind than the gold of Ophir. Therefore I will make the heavens tremble,
And the earth will be shaken from its place
At the fury of the Lord of hosts
In the day of His burning anger. And it will be that like a hunted gazelle,
Or like sheep with none to gather them,
They will each turn to his own people,
And each one flee to his own land. Anyone who is found will be thrust through,
And anyone who is captured will fall by the sword. Their little ones also will be dashed to pieces
Before their eyes;
Their houses will be plundered
And their wives ravished.
[Isaiah 13:9-16]

Again, another clear reference to judgment coming upon a nation(Babylon) and apocalyptic language was used. The same apocalyptic language used in the Olivet Discourse.
Sir, Jesus didn't mgive the details in the Olivet Discourse that He did in the Revelation. For instance, He didn't mention the antichrist, nor mark of the beast. But He DID mention the "abomination of desolation", in which the antichrist will enter a new Jewish temple in Jerusalem, set up his statue in it, & declare himself God. Obviously, that hasn't yet happened.

Sorry, Sir; preterism is phony as a Ford Corvette.
 

robycop3

Well-known member
But He didnt come literally in the cloud, but was apocalyptic language used by those writers.

In Isaiah 10, God said the Assyrian nation was His axe He wielded to punish the Jews. But they weren’t literally an axe, but the instrument employed by God.
The Assyrians didn't punish the Jews; they punished the ten tribes of the other Israelis. The main punisher of the Jews was Babylon.
 

Reformedguy

Well-known member
They didn't, and it didn't matter anyway, as the only ones that will affect them are, for the Christians, being called out of paradise by Jesus at the rapture, or being brought out of 'torments' at the Great White Throne judgment.
And it didn't matter anyway? So it was irrelevant to them then?
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
No, it WASN'T. The only things that occurred then was the destruction of J & the temple. There was no great trib worldwide, and Jesus hasn't yet returned.


Those events haven't yet occurred, either.

Actually, the nation that was punished then was BABYLON. You stopped to soon.
Please learn a little history. The king of Babylon had gone forth from the city of Babylon with his army to fight the medes & Persians elsewhere, leaving his son Belshazzar in charge. During that time, a big earthquake hit the land, but not the city itself, producing widespread destruction & clouds of smoke & dust that obscured the heavens. In many places, it came as a huge dust storm, making the sky appear to have rolled up.(I know you've seen documentary films of similar dust storms before) An army of Medes had quietly approached the city, & when they were ready to strike, God wrote the handwriting on the wall for Belshazzar & his homies who were having a big party. The Medes entered the city thru its aqueducts & captured it, killing Belshazzar & crew. (while sparing Daniel)


Sir, Jesus didn't mgive the details in the Olivet Discourse that He did in the Revelation. For instance, He didn't mention the antichrist, nor mark of the beast. But He DID mention the "abomination of desolation", in which the antichrist will enter a new Jewish temple in Jerusalem, set up his statue in it, & declare himself God. Obviously, that hasn't yet happened.

Sorry, Sir; preterism is phony as a Ford Corvette.
You can say no it wasn’t all day long, but you can’t escape ”Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.”[Matthew 24:34] And ”this generation“ is not referring to another generation, let alone one still in out future.
 

shnarkle

Well-known member
Which Generation was Jesus speaking to in Matthew, Mark, and Luke? Jesus is quoted 28 times in those books using the Word "Generation"...
The generation he was speaking to. That generation would see the destruction of the Temple. Jesus points out that he did not come to condemn, but to save. However, he also points out that his words will judge those who do not heed his teachings. So when the destruction occurs, it is his words/ judgment coming to pass. This is the return he foretold. He explicitly points out that it is his words which have eternal life as well as the power to judge those who deny him and his teachings.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
Where does it say only "some"?
In Luke 21:12-13 Jesus says “But before all these things, they will lay their hands on you and will persecute you, delivering you to the synagogues and prisons, bringing you before kings and governors for My name’s sake. It will lead to an opportunity for your testimony.” They can read all through Acts of the Apostles of this very thing coming to fruition.

Then there is Luke 21:14-19 where Christ said, “So make up your minds not to prepare beforehand to defend yourselves; for I will give you utterance and wisdom which none of your opponents will be able to resist or refute. But you will be betrayed even by parents and brothers and relatives and friends, and they will put some of you to death, and you will be hated by all because of My name. Yet not a hair of your head will perish. By your endurance you will gain your lives.” Again, this is clearly referring to “this generation” from around AD 35 and moving forward.

Then we can read this in Luke 21:20-22, “But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then recognize that her desolation is near. Then those who are in Judea must flee to the mountains, and those who are in the midst of the city must leave, and those who are in the country must not enter the city; because these are days of vengeance, so that all things which are written will be fulfilled.” This is a localized event in Jerusalem not a worldwide persecution our dispensationialist Brethern are making it out to be.
 

robycop3

Well-known member
So those ten tribes aren’t Jews?
No; they're Israelis. All Jews are Israelis, but not all Israelis are Jews. The Jews are only the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, & Levi. Once the 10 tribes & Judah separated in Rehoboam's time, they became separate nations. In Israel, when Jeroboam fired the Levites from being priests, they migrated to Judah. Scripture maintains that separation.
 

robycop3

Well-known member
You can say no it wasn’t all day long, but you can’t escape ”Truly I say to you, this generation will not pass away until all these things take place.”[Matthew 24:34] And ”this generation“ is not referring to another generation, let alone one still in out future.
You can read that verse all you like, but you can't escape the FACT that THOSE EVENTS HAVEN'T YET OCCURRED. You cannot show us from history when they occurred. And such spectacular events would not have been missed in history! No, you can't show them to us because THEY HAVEN'T YET HAPPENED!

I suggest you study the several meanings of "genea" as Crowcross mentioned above.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
You can read that verse all you like, but you can't escape the FACT that THOSE EVENTS HAVEN'T YET OCCURRED. You cannot show us from history when they occurred. And such spectacular events would not have been missed in history! No, you can't show them to us because THEY HAVEN'T YET HAPPENED!

I suggest you study the several meanings of "genea" as Crowcross mentioned above.
The apocalyptic language used in the Olivet Discourse is used throughout the OT when used to explain God’s judgment upon a nation. That was not the first time it was used. I went through Luke 21:12-22 and showed all that was to take place in Jerusalem and not a worldwide event. You can fracture that discourse into some of it then and some of it millennia later. It was a discourse that was fulfilled in ”this generation”.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
No; they're Israelis. All Jews are Israelis, but not all Israelis are Jews. The Jews are only the tribes of Judah, Benjamin, & Levi. Once the 10 tribes & Judah separated in Rehoboam's time, they became separate nations. In Israel, when Jeroboam fired the Levites from being priests, they migrated to Judah. Scripture maintains that separation.
Show me via scripture these 10 tribes are no longer considered Jews. I’ve never heard this before.
 

robycop3

Well-known member
The apocalyptic language used in the Olivet Discourse is used throughout the OT when used to explain God’s judgment upon a nation. That was not the first time it was used. I went through Luke 21:12-22 and showed all that was to take place in Jerusalem and not a worldwide event. You can fracture that discourse into some of it then and some of it millennia later. It was a discourse that was fulfilled in ”this generation”.
The events in J & surrounding area in 66-70 AD were the fulfillment of the "days of vengeance" which Jesus pronounced upon that generation of Jews. The eschatological prophecies were not then fulfilled.
 

robycop3

Well-known member
Show me via scripture these 10 tribes are no longer considered Jews. I’ve never heard this before.
Please show me where they ARE!

To answer your question: 2 Samuel 20:2 So every man of Israel deserted David, and followed Sheba the son of Bichri. But the men of Judah, from the Jordan as far as Jerusalem, remained loyal to their king.

1 Kings 15:17 And Baasha king of Israel came up against Judah, and built Ramah, that he might let none go out or come in to Asa king of Judah.

So you see, Israel and Judah warred against each other several times.

Ezekiel 37:16 As for you, son of man, take a stick for yourself and write on it: ‘For Judah and for the children of Israel, his companions.’ Then take another stick and write on it, ‘For Joseph, the stick of Ephraim, and for all the house of Israel, his companions.’

Ezekiel 37:19 say to them, ‘Thus says the Lord God: “Surely I will take the stick of Joseph, which is in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel, his companions; and I will join them with it, with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they will be one in My hand.” ’

This hasn't yet happened.

There are scores of other verses that read "Israel and Judah". But there's NOT ONE that reads "a Jew from the tribe of Dan" or similar.
 

SovereignGrace

Well-known member
The events in J & surrounding area in 66-70 AD were the fulfillment of the "days of vengeance" which Jesus pronounced upon that generation of Jews. The eschatological prophecies were not then fulfilled.
Show me where He goes from “this generation” to a future generation, one that hasn’t even come into existence yet. Where in the Olivet Discourse does He go from one to the other.
 
Top