Who came up with the idea that Mormons have to earn eternal life?

Janice Bower

Well-known member
DoctrIne and Covenants 130

Items of instruction given by Joseph Smith the Prophet, at Ramus, Illinois, April 2, 1843.

20–21, All blessings come by obedience to law;

Is eternal life a blessing?

20 There is a law, irrevocably decreed in heaven before the foundations of this world, upon which all blessings are predicated—

How many blessings are exempt from that law?

21 And when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated.
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
Why can't we be blessed by God without obedience to some of those laws?

Revelation given to Joseph Smith the Prophet, in Independence, Jackson County, Missouri, April 26, 1832.
; 8–13, The Lord is bound when we do what He says;

9 Or, in other words, I give unto you directions how you may act before me, that it may turn to you for your salvation.

10 I, the Lord, am bound when ye do what I say; but when ye do not what I say, ye have no promise.
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Why can't we be blessed by God without obedience to some of those laws?

The LDS believe God offered His Atonement for all of mankind--independent of any man's obedience--and justified all men of life--as a free gift to all men:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

No obedience, faith, endurance, or belief necessary. Free gift to all men.

EDITED--Rule 22
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
The LDS believe God offered His Atonement for all of mankind--independent of any man's obedience--and justified all men of life--as a free gift to all men:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

1) Your proof-text doesn't say "offered".

2) The meaning of the phrase, "all men" is dependent on the CONTEXT of the entire chapter.

No obedience, faith, endurance, or belief necessary. Free gift to all men.

Correct.
Salvation is not "by" faith.
Salvation is "through" faith.

Salvation is "by" grace.

So, Janice--stick that into your candy bag and enjoy.

EDITED--rule 12
 
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Janice Bower

Well-known member
“The gospel teaches us that relief from torment and guilt can be earned through repentance.”
Boyd K. Packer, The Brilliant Morning of Forgiveness, General Conference, October 1995
Boyd K. Packer, The Savior’s Selfless and Sacred Sacrifice, Ensign, April 2015


"Each of us has been sent to earth by our Heavenly Father to merit eternal life."
Robert D. Hales, "Personal Revelation: The Teachings and Examples of the Prophets", October 2007 General Conference

Jesus said, “I am the way, the truth and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” (John 14:6.) He said, “… no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.” This is the Lord’s way, and coming unto the Father is a divine and sacred gift that must be merited.
Bernard P. Brockbank, “Entrance into the Kingdom of God,” Ensign, Jan 1973, 44

Immortality connotes life without end. Eternal life, on the other hand, connotes quality of life — exaltation, the highest type of immortality, the kind of life enjoyed by God himself. It is in the attainment of eternal life, which man must earn in mortality, that he reaches his full potentiality.
- Marion G. Romney, of the First Presidency, at General Conference, October 1978, Ensign, November, 1978, p. 14

Individual salvation is "...that which man merits through his own acts
through life and by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the gospel."
- Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 1 p. 134

“There will be a wise and just God to sit in judgment on all men. … The wicked may prosper for a time, the rebellious may seem to profit by their
transgressions, but the time is coming when, at the bar of justice, all men will be judged, ‘every man according to their works’ (Rev. 20:13). No one will ‘get by’ with anything. On that day no one will escape the penalty of his deeds, no one will fail to receive the blessings he has earned. Again, the parable of the sheep and the goats gives us assurance that there will be total justice.”
Spencer W. Kimball, The Miracle of Forgiveness, p. 304–5

"Let us make our homes sanctuaries of righteousness, places of prayer, and abodes of love that we might merit the blessings that can come only from our Heavenly Father... How might we merit this promise [spoken of in Ezekiel 36]? What will qualify us to receive this blessing?"
Thomas S. Monson, "To Learn, to Do, to Be", General Conference, October 2008

It is the celestial glory which we seek. It is in the presence of God we desire to dwell. It is a forever family in which we want membership. Such blessings are earned through a lifetime of striving, seeking, repenting, and finally succeeding.
Thomas S. Monson, The Race of Life, General Conference, April 2012
(cf. “To Learn, To Do, To Be,” Ensign, May 1992, 47)

“Ordinances instituted in the heavens before the foundation of the world, in the priesthood, for the salvation of men, are not to be altered or changed. All must be saved on the same principles. If a man gets a fullness of the Priesthood of God he has to get it in the same way that Jesus Christ obtained it, and that was by keeping all the commandments and obeying all the ordinances of the house of the Lord …” (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p. 308)
________________________


LDS Scriptures:

D&C 25: 15.
15 Keep my commandments continually, and a crown of righteousness thou shalt receive. And except thou do this, where I am you cannot come.

D&C 76: 112 (51-112)
112 And they shall be servants of the Most High; but where God and Christ dwell they cannot come, worlds without end.
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
The LDS believe God offered His Atonement for all of mankind--independent of any man's obedience--and justified all men of life--as a free gift to all men:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life.

No obedience, faith, endurance, or belief necessary. Free gift to all men.

So, Janice--stick that into your candy bag and enjoy.
I know the LDS interpretation of the word life in Romans 5:18 is "resurrection to one of the lowest Mormon kingdoms in the after life."

Two of he Mormon gods, i. e. heavenly father and jesus dwell in the highest heaven of the three heavens in the celestial kingdom where only those with eternal life (a reward for those who earned it) are allowed.

My personal opinion of that interpretation is to pull the wool over thousands, if not millions, of eyes. It is diabolically dishonest!
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
I know the LDS interpretation of the word life in Romans 5:18 is "resurrection to one of the lowest Mormon kingdoms in the after life."

The "life" found in Romans5:18 is a reference to eternal life--which isn't the "lowest kingdoms".

Two of he Mormon gods, i. e. heavenly father and jesus dwell in the highest heaven of the three heavens in the celestial kingdom where only those with eternal life (a reward for those who earned it) are allowed.

My personal opinion of that interpretation is to pull the wool over thousands, if not millions, of eyes. It is diabolically dishonest!

So--is this a "dishonest" example?

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

So--did those who "have done good" earn the "resurrection of life"?
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
An act that is justified by the Spirit is one that is sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise, or in other words, ratified and approved by the Holy Ghost. This law of justification is the provision the Lord has placed in the gospel to assure that no unrighteous performance will be binding on earth and in heaven, and that no person will add to his position or glory in the hereafter by gaining an unearned blessing.
Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 408

Some blessings are earned; unearned ones are not allowed!
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
An act that is justified by the Spirit is one that is sealed by the Holy Spirit of Promise, or in other words, ratified and approved by the Holy Ghost. This law of justification is the provision the Lord has placed in the gospel to assure that no unrighteous performance will be binding on earth and in heaven, and that no person will add to his position or glory in the hereafter by gaining an unearned blessing.
Bruce R. McConkie, Mormon Doctrine, p. 408

Some blessings are earned; unearned ones are not allowed!

Janice--as has already been explained--the LDS believe the Atonement of Jesus Christ--for the sins of the whole world--was a free gift to all men. No obedience required. Christ alone. Done. Over. Nailed to the cross.

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
The "life" found in Romans5:18 is a reference to eternal life--which isn't the "lowest kingdoms".



So--is this a "dishonest" example?

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

So--did those who "have done good" earn the "resurrection of life"?
Sorry. One of the Mormon posters quoted justification of life in the wrong context (was it you?) so I thought he was referring to immortality only. But you are pretending that Christians earn eternal life when they absolutely don't! No one can earn eternal life! It isn't for sale. It's a gift of God. Jesus paid for it with His blood.

No one can earn eternal life --- not Mormons, JWS, Eastern Orthodox, Protestants, or anyone else on earth.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
Janice--as has already been explained--the LDS believe the Atonement of Jesus Christ--for the sins of the whole world--was a free gift to all men. No obedience required. Christ alone. Done. Over. Nailed to the cross.

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life
That’s obviously not true because you harp about obedience being necessary for salvation.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
Sorry. One of the Mormon posters quoted justification of life in the wrong context (was it you?) so I thought he was referring to immortality only. But you are pretending that Christians earn eternal life when they absolutely don't!
They absolutely do. There must be something different about those who will be saved from those who will not be. That difference is what every person must do to merit God's grace. Those that don't will be damned with the damned. It's as simple as that.
No one can earn eternal life!
Everyone must earn it or they cannot have it... Again, eternal life is not simply living forever - everyone gets that.
It isn't for sale
No one said it was. If it was, then there would be some people who simply couldn't afford it, but that's not the issue. Those who don't earn it, don't want it.
It's a gift of God.
Grace is a gift to every man, but they have to do something to get it. It's not free.
Jesus paid for it with His blood.
No one is arguing that point, but he didn't pay for the unrepentant sinner.
No one can earn eternal life --- not Mormons, JWS, Eastern Orthodox, Protestants, or anyone else on earth.
None of those religions can make that concession for any of their members. That is something that is personal between God and the individual and the choices the individual makes. If the person chooses to follow Christ, regardless of the religion he belongs to, he can be saved in the kingdom of God.

Following Christ requires that as soon as the person learns what is necessary to obtain eternal life, then he must do those things or he cannot have it.
 

brotherofJared

Well-known member
That’s obviously not true because you harp about obedience being necessary for salvation.
The problem isn't with the scriptures, it's with the redefinition that our critics have given words. The free gift is free. Everyone got it no matter what they do. The atonement covered all of mankind, but that's where "free" ended. Those who wish to receive the reward of salvation must do something different than those who won't receive it. Whatever that is, that's what is required to obtain salvation. We can't do it any other way. Only in and through Christ can we obtain eternal life.
 

Magdalena

Well-known member
The problem isn't with the scriptures, it's with the redefinition that our critics have given words. The free gift is free. Everyone got it no matter what they do. The atonement covered all of mankind, but that's where "free" ended. Those who wish to receive the reward of salvation must do something different than those who won't receive it. Whatever that is, that's what is required to obtain salvation. We can't do it any other way. Only in and through Christ can we obtain eternal life.
So what was Christ’s gift?
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
Janice--as has already been explained--the LDS believe the Atonement of Jesus Christ--for the sins of the whole world--was a free gift to all men. No obedience required. Christ alone. Done. Over. Nailed to the cross.

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life
That wasn't free! The devil and his angels weren't allowed the privilege of a resurrection to damnation.
 

Janice Bower

Well-known member
They absolutely do. There must be something different about those who will be saved from those who will not be. That difference is what every person must do to merit God's grace. Those that don't will be damned with the damned. It's as simple as that.

Everyone must earn it or they cannot have it... Again, eternal life is not simply living forever - everyone gets that.

No one said it was. If it was, then there would be some people who simply couldn't afford it, but that's not the issue. Those who don't earn it, don't want it.

Grace is a gift to every man, but they have to do something to get it. It's not free.

No one is arguing that point, but he didn't pay for the unrepentant sinner.
Wrong answers, brotherofJared.

Ephesians 2
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)
 

dberrie2020

Well-known member
Sorry. One of the Mormon posters quoted justification of life in the wrong context (was it you?) so I thought he was referring to immortality only.

You might want to consider the critics here don't have a very good grasp on what the LDS believe. All LDS don't either.

But you are pretending that Christians earn eternal life when they absolutely don't!

Is this an example of that?

John 5:28-29---King James Version
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.

No one can earn eternal life! It isn't for sale. It's a gift of God. Jesus paid for it with His blood.

Jesus did pay for it with His Blood. That means He owns it. Is this who He gives it to?

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Janice--just so Jesus bought eternal life for man with His Blood--doesn't prove God doesn't require anything for Him to extend that grace to man. Life is God's, to give to whoever He chooses to give it to:

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

Or--is that just another example of earning eternal life?
 
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