Who came up with the idea that Mormons have to earn eternal life?

[dberrie2020]

dberrie2020 said: Janice--as has already been explained--the LDS believe the Atonement of Jesus Christ--for the sins of the whole world--was a free gift to all men. No obedience required. Christ alone. Done. Over. Nailed to the cross.

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life

That wasn't free! The devil and his angels weren't allowed the privilege of a resurrection to damnation.

It most certainly is free--for all men:

Romans 5:18---King James Version
18 Therefore as by the offence of one judgment came upon all men to condemnation; even so by the righteousness of one the free gift came upon all men unto justification of life

What has the devil and his angles got to do with that?

"came upon"--past tense.

Janice--I believe one of the problems with the critic's assumptions here is--they really don't believe God gave His Atonement as a free gift to mankind. They believe one has to have faith in it, or it really wasn't a free gift to all men. That's a false belief, IMO. God freely gave His Blood to the wicked and the righteous--all men--as a free gift to all men, in His Atonement--and that released all men from the condemnation of the Fall--which befell all men--and opened the doors of eternal life to all men, as an opportunity.

To receive His Blood unto the forgiveness of our personal sins--is where the condition of walking in the light becomes conditional:

1 John 1:7---King James Version
7 But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

For mankind to receive eternal life, first--they had to be delivered from the condemnation of the Fall. The Atonement of Christ did that, as a free gift to all men. All men are now justified of life, or--absolved from the condemnation of the Fall, as a free gift to all men.

To receive the forgiveness of our personal sins--one has to walk in the light.

 

[Theo1689]

Everyone must earn it or they cannot have it... Again, eternal life is not simply living forever - everyone gets that.

As usual, you have no clue what you're talking about, and you demonstrate that you reject the Bible:

John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Only BELIEVERS attain "eternal life".
And since not all believe, not all have eternal life.

Following Christ requires that as soon as the person learns what is necessary to obtain eternal life, then he must do those things or he cannot have it.

You just contradicted yourself.
If EVERYONE gets eternal life, no matter what, then how can anything be "necessary" for it?

 

[Theo1689]

You might want to consider the critics here don't have a very good grasp on what the LDS believe. All LDS don't either.

You might want to consider the LDS here don't have a very good grasp of what the Bible teaches. You prove this yourself with your incapability of understanding James 2. You prove this yourself by your constant running away from Eph. 2:8-9, 2 Tim. 1:9, Tit. 3:5, Rom. 4:1-6, 11:5-6, etc. etc.

 

[brotherofJared]

That wasn't free!

Really? How much did you have pay? How much work did you have to do to get it?

The devil and his angels weren't allowed the privilege of a resurrection to damnation.

You have it backwards. They weren't allowed the privilege of being born. That's gotta happen first. The other part wasn't automatic. Someone had to work for that.

 

[brotherofJared]

Wrong answers, brotherofJared.

I'm not going to depend on you for the right ones.

Ephesians 2
4 But God, who is rich in mercy, for his great love wherewith he loved us, 5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Christ, (by grace ye are saved)

That's what I've been saying. Anyone who is saved is saved by grace. That is the free gift. After that, it's up to us.

 

[brotherofJared]

DITTO. brotherofJared, what is the meaning of Romans 6:23, IYO?

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

Looks to me like if you sin, you die. Period.

if one follows Christ, the free gift is eternal life.

You don't seem to understand that the first 7 words of that line is a statement of fact. Everything that follows it is an exception to the fact. Once you get the gift, if you sin, YOU DIE.

Let's see the context. 21. For the end of those things is DEATH. PERIOD.
22. But now that you have been set free from sin and become slaves of God, the fruit you get LEADS to sanctification and its end, eternal life.

In other words, it is a process that the saved person is drawn to. it LEADS one to sanctification, it doesn't MAKE them sanctified. Let's get this straight, this is the fact that if you sin you DIE. It doesn't get any clearer than that. The way out is defined in this way, the word "get" from "the fruit you get" is a bad translation. Actually, the word "leads" isn't there either. 6:22 should read something like this, focusing on the word "now" as a point of where you are and "end" as a point of where you want to be.

Now having been set free from sin
Now having become slaves to God
You have the fruit of you (your works) unto sanctification
Now the end is life eternal.

In other words, you have to WORK for it.

The context is to forsake one's past life and improve our time in this life - there is a clear correlation between this passage and Alma 34. The entire passage from 15 to the end talks about the direction one travels in. First, there is no such thing as doing nothing, standing still. It's like treading water in a flowing river. Just staying afloat means flowing with the current - downstream. Sin is flowing with the ways of the world. Sin is death, working against the stream is the way to life.

"Just as you once presented your members as slaves to impurity and to lawlessness leading to more lawlessness, so now present your members as leading to righteousness leading to sanctification."

I know you're not going to agree with my assessment. You have your ways and I have mine. I happen to believe that the Bible teaches us to walk in a path that is separate from the world and to actually move towards God and his ways. I also believe that if one doesn't do that, they have no hope of salvation. The resurrection was the free gift to all men. Salvation is another story. That will require lots of work and a constant effort to swim against the flow even though our natural abilities will prevent us from getting upstream, the effort still needs to be applied because to stop means death.

 

[brotherofJared]

Janice--I believe one of the problems with the critic's assumptions here is--they really don't believe God gave His Atonement as a free gift to mankind. They believe one has to have faith in it, or it really wasn't a free gift to all men. That's a false belief, IMO. God freely gave His Blood to the wicked and the righteous--all men--as a free gift to all men, in His Atonement--and that released all men from the condemnation of the Fall--which befell all men--and opened the doors of eternal life to all men, as an opportunity.

Thank you for saying that and putting the wicked first in that sentence. I got a sense of love for all mankind when I read it. I know that's what he did, but never had it put quite this way.

 

[Janice Bower]

Really? How much did you have pay? How much work did you have to do to get it?

You have it backwards. They weren't allowed the privilege of being born. That's gotta happen first. The other part wasn't automatic. Someone had to work for that.

I haven't been resurrected. Eternal life is free to those of us who are being saved, but Mormons claim it has to be earned by keeping a whole slew of commandments and ordinances.

They that are not tithed shall be burned at his coming and "And now, my dearly beloved brethren and sisters, let me assure you that these are principles in relation to the dead and the living that cannot be lightly passed over, as pertaining to our salvation. For their salvation is necessary and essential to our salvation, as Paul says concerning the fathers—that they without us cannot be made perfect—neither can we without our dead be made perfect."

Paul didn't teach that nonsense.

 

[Janice Bower]

As usual, you have no clue what you're talking about, and you demonstrate that you reject the Bible:

John 3:15 That whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have eternal life.

Only BELIEVERS attain "eternal life".
And since not all believe, not all have eternal life.



You just contradicted yourself.
If EVERYONE gets eternal life, no matter what, then how can anything be "necessary" for it?

Mormonism is a plot to deny truth. Everyone does not get eternal life according to Mormonism. Mormon leaders have always differentiated between everlasting and eternal life. Eternal life has to be earned. You and I and others know what is taught; these Mormons are denying it.

As far as resurrection goes, even sons of perdition will be resurrected and end up with those sons of perdition who were cast out without ever becoming mortals.

brotherofJared uses ad hominems a lot, but I haven't made up lies. Bishops aren't available whenever members need them; unless they are retired, they are working fulltime jobs.

 

[brotherofJared]

I haven't been resurrected.

Everyone does not get eternal life according to Mormonism.

Everyone doesn't get eternal life, period.

Mormon leaders have always differentiated between everlasting and eternal life.

So, tell me, does everyone get eternal life? Yes or no?

Eternal life has to be earned.

Salvation has to be earned.

You and I and others know what is taught; these Mormons are denying it.

Nope. I don't think you guys know what is taught.

As far as resurrection goes, even sons of perdition will be resurrected and end up with those sons of perdition who were cast out without ever becoming mortals.

So, does the atonement cover all mankind or just some of mankind?

brotherofJared uses ad hominems a lot

Janice Bower likes twisting Mormon doctrine a lot. See how that works?

but I haven't made up lies.

I didn't say you did. I said I didn't believe your story.

Bishops aren't available whenever members need them; unless they are retired, they are working fulltime jobs.

As I said before, to me, this is post has no point, it's just a sudden outburst that makes no sense and has NOTHING to do with the topic. It's like saying, well, well, you suck your thumb, so there.

 

[brotherofJared]

Hmmm. I slipped over posts.

Eternal life is free to those of us who are being saved

No, it's not. No matter what church you belong to, no matter what religion you practice, those who will obtain eternal life will only obtain it if they do something different than those who won't be saved. If that weren't true, then everyone would be saved regardless of what they believe. That is a fact. You choose to ignore it all you want, but it doesn't change the truth.

but Mormons claim it has to be earned by keeping a whole slew of commandments and ordinances.

No, we don't. I told you and quoted the source and gave you the reference for the source about what it takes to be saved. Marriage in the temple isn't in that quote and I didn't say anything about keeping the commandments or ordinances. And for the record, we're not the ones who came up with baptism. Jesus did that and he said that no one can enter the kingdom of God without it. I believe him. If you want to ignore him, then you do so at your own peril.

Here it is again, 2 Nephi 25:23: “For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”

I explained that "all we can do" is be "reconciled to God". That's what we teach. It's not difficult. Reconciling oneself to God is the process of repenting and doing better. Or, as I pointed out from Alma 34, doing better means improving one's self in this life.

So, for those who don't understand that, let's say that we decide that we don't honor God enough and so we choose to raise the bar. Instead of going to church once a year at Christmas or Easter, we decide we're going to go to church every Sunday. That's an improvement. People usually do that when they are in trouble, but how much more honorable would it be one the person did it before trouble started brewing? Can he stop there? What if, while he's attending church one Sunday, he hears a sermon about honoring parents and he feels that that is an area that he needs to improve on. Is he obligated to improve on that as a follower of Christ? Why, yes he is. Can he ever stop improving? Why not he can't. He can't say, I will not steal, but it's okay to bear false witness.

Now, the question is, will any of those prevent the person from getting into heaven? I personally don't know. That's between God and the person. Was that person reconciled to God? If he was, then I don't think he has anything to worry about. Would such a person, one who strived to draw closer to God and further away from the world, object to being baptized if he learned that it was absolutely necessary to enter the kingdom of God? I would say that if he objected, then either he didn't understand its necessity or he really doesn't care.

But we don't have a list of "to-dos" that will guarantee one's place in heaven and we certainly aren't bypassing the work that Christ did for us (that's not possible anyway). We do expect a lot from our members. Some people might not like that, but we do it because we believe we are all members of the family of God and that no one gets into heaven alone. Ministering, teaching, obtaining the priesthood, members preaching the word instead of some paid minister... all these things go into the family and if everything worked the way it is supposed to, we would all be of one heart and one mind and every member would watch out for every other member and those around them. We have a long way to go before we get to that point but we're working on it. Will not participating mean that we missed the opportunity for salvation? No. I don't think so. Not everyone can give a talk. Not everyone is comfortable with giving a prayer in a meeting or even introducing themselves in a meeting. God isn't going to condemn anyone to hell because they didn't want to go to church or failed to pay a perfect tithing or didn't have morning and evening prayer every day or failed to read the scriptures, but all those things are important. What will earn condemnation is cheating on one's wife, murder, fornication, lying or stealing (God will judge. Not every sin is worthy of capital punishment and I think God recognizes that hell is not an appropriate punishment for stealing a bag of chips when the person was 10-years-old.)

The commandments are a guide to living in happiness and harmony with God and man. No one who violates them without repenting and forsaking the actions which violate those commandments can not expect to be saved in the kingdom of God. It's not a long list. There are 10 of them and, if one believes the Bible, then keeping those 10 commandments will "earn" one the right to life. God really did say that, not some apostle. Jesus himself said that. I believe him. This is a lifelong endeavor and should anyone fail on ANY point of those commandments as they understand them will need to repent or suffer the consequences.

 

[Magdalena]

Hmmm. I slipped over posts.

No, it's not. No matter what church you belong to, no matter what religion you practice, those who will obtain eternal life will only obtain it if they do something different than those who won't be saved. If that weren't true, then everyone would be saved regardless of what they believe. That is a fact. You choose to ignore it all you want, but it doesn't change the truth.

No, we don't. I told you and quoted the source and gave you the reference for the source about what it takes to be saved. Marriage in the temple isn't in that quote and I didn't say anything about keeping the commandments or ordinances. And for the record, we're not the ones who came up with baptism. Jesus did that and he said that no one can enter the kingdom of God without it. I believe him. If you want to ignore him, then you do so at your own peril.

Here it is again, 2 Nephi 25:23: “For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do.”

I explained that "all we can do" is be "reconciled to God". That's what we teach. It's not difficult. Reconciling oneself to God is the process of repenting and doing better. Or, as I pointed out from Alma 34, doing better means improving one's self in this life.

So, for those who don't understand that, let's say that we decide that we don't honor God enough and so we choose to raise the bar. Instead of going to church once a year at Christmas or Easter, we decide we're going to go to church every Sunday. That's an improvement. People usually do that when they are in trouble, but how much more honorable would it be one the person did it before trouble started brewing? Can he stop there? What if, while he's attending church one Sunday, he hears a sermon about honoring parents and he feels that that is an area that he needs to improve on. Is he obligated to improve on that as a follower of Christ? Why, yes he is. Can he ever stop improving? Why not he can't. He can't say, I will not steal, but it's okay to bear false witness.

Now, the question is, will any of those prevent the person from getting into heaven? I personally don't know. That's between God and the person. Was that person reconciled to God? If he was, then I don't think he has anything to worry about. Would such a person, one who strived to draw closer to God and further away from the world, object to being baptized if he learned that it was absolutely necessary to enter the kingdom of God? I would say that if he objected, then either he didn't understand its necessity or he really doesn't care.

But we don't have a list of "to-dos" that will guarantee one's place in heaven and we certainly aren't bypassing the work that Christ did for us (that's not possible anyway). We do expect a lot from our members. Some people might not like that, but we do it because we believe we are all members of the family of God and that no one gets into heaven alone. Ministering, teaching, obtaining the priesthood, members preaching the word instead of some paid minister... all these things go into the family and if everything worked the way it is supposed to, we would all be of one heart and one mind and every member would watch out for every other member and those around them. We have a long way to go before we get to that point but we're working on it. Will not participating mean that we missed the opportunity for salvation? No. I don't think so. Not everyone can give a talk. Not everyone is comfortable with giving a prayer in a meeting or even introducing themselves in a meeting. God isn't going to condemn anyone to hell because they didn't want to go to church or failed to pay a perfect tithing or didn't have morning and evening prayer every day or failed to read the scriptures, but all those things are important. What will earn condemnation is cheating on one's wife, murder, fornication, lying or stealing (God will judge. Not every sin is worthy of capital punishment and I think God recognizes that hell is not an appropriate punishment for stealing a bag of chips when the person was 10-years-old.)

The commandments are a guide to living in happiness and harmony with God and man. No one who violates them without repenting and forsaking the actions which violate those commandments can not expect to be saved in the kingdom of God. It's not a long list. There are 10 of them and, if one believes the Bible, then keeping those 10 commandments will "earn" one the right to life. God really did say that, not some apostle. Jesus himself said that. I believe him. This is a lifelong endeavor and should anyone fail on ANY point of those commandments as they understand them will need to repent or suffer the consequences.

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

 

[dberrie2020]

Eternal life is free to those of us who are being saved,

Is this the evidence of that?

Hebrews 5:9---King James Version
9 And being made perfect, he became the author of eternal salvation unto all them that obey him;

but Mormons claim it has to be earned by keeping a whole slew of commandments and ordinances.

Paul had quite a long list himself:

Galatians 5:19-21---King James Version
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Could anyone explain how one could avoid Paul's condemnation above--without obeying the ten commandments?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10---King James Version
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

That's a whole slew of things--is it not? Sounds a lot different than the claims made by the critics here, IMO.

 

[dberrie2020]

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

There seems to be a qualifier of those who believe:

John 3:16-21---King James Version
16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.
18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God.
19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil.
20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved.
21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God.

That qualifies those who are believers from the unbelievers--by their deeds. It is also interesting to note-- But he that doeth truth cometh to the light,

 

[brotherofJared]

They that are not tithed shall be burned at his coming

You are aware that the wicked will be in that group that will be burned at his coming, right? This statement that you are referring to simply categorizes those who cheat the church, God's church, of a voluntary tithe will be numbered in that group. It's not a commandment, not one of the 10 anyway, but cheating is something the wicked do. It's not something the righteous will do.

On the day that Jacob discovered the gate to heaven, his last exclamation was that he would pay his tithe to God. Abraham did it. We can assume that Isaac taught Jacob the principle and it was important enough that Jacob commemorated that day with this personal obligation, again, not a commandment but a personal commitment, voluntarily returning to God a tenth of all that God gave him. It was later, much later, that a prophet made the point that not paying that tithe was robbing God. That hasn't changed. No one, not God or a prophet of God has rescinded that statement. And no one knows this better than members of our church. Will you all be held accountable for that? Probably not, but we would be because we knew better.

"And now, my dearly beloved brethren and sisters, let me assure you that these are principles in relation to the dead and the living that cannot be lightly passed over, as pertaining to our salvation. For their salvation is necessary and essential to our salvation, as Paul says concerning the fathers—that they without us cannot be made perfect—neither can we without our dead be made perfect."

This is completely unrelated to tithing. It's another one of those outbursts that has no point to make.

Paul didn't teach that nonsense.

Paul did teach it. It's telling that you all haven't a clue what he was talking about..

 

[brotherofJared]

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

The key here is what do people do when they believe in someone? If a person doesn't do that, then they don't believe - no matter how much they say otherwise. Jesus made even clearer when people who apparently did do something about that belief and he still told them to depart that He never knew them.

Once u have the answer to that question, then and only then, depending on what you do with it, can you be saved.

 

[Richard7]

John 3:16 “For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.”

Except those who were not predestined to believe... chuckle

 

[dberrie2020]

Janice Bower said:
but Mormons claim it has to be earned by keeping a whole slew of commandments and ordinances.

"Paul had quite a long list himself:

Galatians 5:19-21---King James Version
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Could anyone explain how one could avoid Paul's condemnation above--without obeying the ten commandments?

1 Corinthians 6:9-10---King James Version
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

That's a whole slew of things--is it not? Sounds a lot different than the claims made by the critics here, IMO."

Anyone like to engage this?

 

[Theo1689]

"Paul had quite a long list himself:

Galatians 5:19-21---King James Version
19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,
20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,
21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told you in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

First of all, you don't seem to understand the difference between "avoiding sinful behaviour" on the one hand, an "positively doing obeisance" on the other hand.

Secondly, you conflate causation with correlation. We aren't saved "because" we obrey commandments, we obey commandments BECAUSE we are already saved. Mormons are unable to understand this, because they hate God, and can't understand doing good works simply out of a love for God. They only understand doing good works to selfishly receive something for themselves.

1 Corinthians 6:9-10---King James Version
9 Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,
10 Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God.

Third, Mormons don't understand that the above describes people who live in the PRACTICE of sin. One cannot be "sinless" on this side of the veil, and so according to dberrie's false theology, NOBODY can be saved.

Anyone like to engage this?

John 1:12 But to all who did receive him, who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

Rom. 3:19 Now we know that whatever the law says it speaks to those who are under the law, so that every mouth may be stopped, and the whole world may be held accountable to God. 20 For by works of the law no human being will be justified in his sight, since through the law comes knowledge of sin.

Eph. 2:8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast.

2Tim. 1:9 who saved us and called us to a holy calling, not because of our works but because of his own purpose and grace, which he gave us in Christ Jesus before the ages began,

Titus 3:5 he saved us, not because of works done by us in righteousness, but according to his own mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewal of the Holy Spirit,

Rom. 4:5 And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6 just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works:

Rom. 9:11 though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad—in order that God’s purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of him who calls— 12 she was told, “The older will serve the younger.” 13 As it is written, “Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated.”

Rom. 11:5 So too at the present time there is a remnant, chosen by grace. 6 But if it is by grace, it is no longer on the basis of works; otherwise grace would no longer be grace.

Any Mormons want to engage THESE?
(Yeah, I didn't think so...)

 

[Janice Bower]

Everyone doesn't get eternal life, period.

So, tell me, does everyone get eternal life? Yes or no?

Salvation has to be earned.

Nope. I don't think you guys know what is taught.

So, does the atonement cover all mankind or just some of mankind?

Janice Bower likes twisting Mormon doctrine a lot. See how that works?

I didn't say you did. I said I didn't believe your story.

As I said before, to me, this is post has no point, it's just a sudden outburst that makes no sense and has NOTHING to do with the topic. It's like saying, well, well, you suck your thumb, so there.

You can't even understand Mormonism. You can't explain it properly to a non-Mormon.

In Mormonism, eternal life has to be earned. Resurrection is free to everyone. After getting a free resurrection, the individual is judged and sent to the place he earned: outer darkness, telestial kingdom, terrestrial kingdom, celestial kingdom, Church of the Firstborn. Outer darkness is for those who have no salvation at all, but have resurrected bodies regardless. The only ones who earned eternal life go to the highest level of the celestial kingdom which is the "Church of the Firstborn" where your "heavenly father" and "christ" are.

I don't expect Mormons to believe me. I'm not obligated to make you believe me. The apostle Paul couldn't bring about conversion and he acknowledged that. Faith is a gift of God. So if you don't know what is taught and you don't think we know what is taught, why are you here?