Who did Jesus give Himself a ransom for ?

L

LeeH

Well-known member
Reformedguy said:
I know what you told me. I need you to answer why Christ would pay a ransom for those who prefer to remain captive? Your dodging
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Well death is the wages of sin, so Jesus can't over come a bit of death for this person or that, he has to overcome it all, doesn't he? So by default all the debt is paid, he can't choose to pay a little bit here for that person or none for another, because they refuse to come and receive it, it can't work that way.

Ask yourself the question, is mankind under the power of death, yes or no, yes, they are.
Did Jesus over come the power of death, yes or no? Yes, so it'a ll paid for. The debt is paid in full.

This is biblical, your argument that Jesus can pay that persons debt, but not another, simply doesn't work that way, you misunderstand what the debt is that's got to be paid.
 
Christian

Christian

Well-known member
LeeH said:
Well death is the wages of sin, so Jesus can't over come a bit of death for this person or that, he has to overcome it all, doesn't he? So by default all the debt is paid, he can't choose to pay a little bit here for that person or none for another, because they refuse to come and receive it, it can't work that way.

Ask yourself the question, is mankind under the power of death, yes or no, yes, they are.
Did Jesus over come the power of death, yes or no? Yes, so it'a ll paid for. The debt is paid in full.

This is biblical, your argument that Jesus can pay that persons debt, but not another, simply doesn't work that way, you misunderstand what the debt is that's got to be paid.
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lets see if he answers your ?
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Well-known member
LeeH said:
Well death is the wages of sin, so Jesus can't over come a bit of death for this person or that, he has to overcome it all, doesn't he? So by default all the debt is paid, he can't choose to pay a little bit here for that person or none for another, because they refuse to come and receive it, it can't work that way.

Ask yourself the question, is mankind under the power of death, yes or no, yes, they are.
Did Jesus over come the power of death, yes or no? Yes, so it'a ll paid for. The debt is paid in full.

This is biblical, your argument that Jesus can pay that persons debt, but not another, simply doesn't work that way, you misunderstand what the debt is that's got to be paid.
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^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Pelagianism has taken. Universalism is in progress. Next stop, Open Theism.
 
Christian

Christian

Well-known member
LeeH said:
When you was a Calvinist, I tried to explain this to you, but you didn't get it, do you understand what I am saying about what the debt is?

If you do, how can it be paid in part? lol.
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yes I was blind to it then because I was defending calvinism , not scripture. its what we see here all of the time

I'm 100 % convinced its defective theology/Christology in here between the A/C . Both come from the same premise about God with augustine thought on God/Christ and depravity. pagan concepts and also both adhere to the doctrine of divine simplicity which is another issue since both hold to that as well. So at its core both parties cannot resolve their differences. I will tag you in another thread and you will see this clearly. :)
 
R

Reformedguy

Well-known member
Kampioen said:
It doesn't have to be a car. It could be a tractor. It can still be rejected.



Well death is the wages of sin, so Jesus can't over come a bit of death for this person or that, he has to overcome it all, doesn't he? So by default all the debt is paid, he can't choose to pay a little bit here for that person or none for another, because they refuse to come and receive it, it can't work that way.



Ask yourself the question, is mankind under the power of death, yes or no, yes, they are.

Did Jesus over come the power of death, yes or no? Yes, so it'a ll paid for. The debt is paid in full.



This is biblical, your argument that Jesus can pay that persons debt, but not another, simply doesn't work that way, you misunderstand what the debt is that's got to be paid.
Click to expand...

LeeH said:
Well death is the wages of sin, so Jesus can't over come a bit of death for this person or that, he has to overcome it all, doesn't he? So by default all the debt is paid, he can't choose to pay a little bit here for that person or none for another, because they refuse to come and receive it, it can't work that way.

Ask yourself the question, is mankind under the power of death, yes or no, yes, they are.
Did Jesus over come the power of death, yes or no? Yes, so it'a ll paid for. The debt is paid in full.

This is biblical, your argument that Jesus can pay that persons debt, but not another, simply doesn't work that way, you misunderstand what the debt is that's got to be paid.
Click to expand...
Still have not addressed my question

Why would Christ pay the ransom for those who prefer to remain captive?
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Christian said:
Yes God resists the proud but gives His grace to the humble. Jesus tell us the same in Matt 5:3 and 11:25.
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This one here thinks James 4:6 is a "how to get saved" verse. Not even close. The other texts? They don't support his works/merited grace "gospel" either.
 
Christian

Christian

Well-known member
preacher4truth said:
This one here thinks James 4:6 is a "how to get saved" verse. Not even close. The other texts? They don't support his works "gospel" either.
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its your gospel that is of works not mine lol. projecting again. already refuted you below here

There is One True Gospel in Scripture

and there are false gospels, Do you know the True Gospel that saves one from sin and without that Gospel no on can be saved ? Who agrees or disagrees ? Gospel literally means " good news ". What is the good news ? the Greek word is where we get our English word from evangelism euaggelion...
forums.carm.org
 
L

LeeH

Well-known member
Reformedguy said:
Still have not addressed my question

Why would Christ pay the ransom for those who prefer to remain captive?
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I have gone out of my way to accommodate you and you have not moved an inch. I have explained in great detail why it must all be paid in full and can't be paid in part.
You appear to be frozen to the spot, no amount of blowtorch applied to your tootsies will move you, but I have tried, really I have.

Have a good night RG, I have to knock off now, God bless everyone.
 
Christian

Christian

Well-known member
LeeH said:
I have gone out of my way to accommodate you and you have not moved an inch. I have explained in great detail why it must all be paid in full and can't be paid in part.
You appear to be frozen to the spot, no amount of blowtorch applied to your tootsies will move you, but I have tried, really I have.

Have a good night RG, I have to knock off now, God bless everyone.
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take care and let me know what you think of the video brother
 
R

Reformedguy

Well-known member
LeeH said:
I have gone out of my way to accommodate you and you have not moved an inch. I have explained in great detail why it must all be paid in full and can't be paid in part.



You appear to be frozen to the spot, no amount of blowtorch applied to your tootsies will move you, but I have tried, really I have.







Have a good night RG, I have to knock off now, God bless everyone.
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K

Kampioen

Well-known member
Reformedguy said:
No Lee. When my question is adressed I will gladly address yours. Your simply dodging/

Why would He pay a ransom for those who prefer to remain captive?
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There's no reason to think He didn't. And what harm does it do?

But Libertarian means they could have accepted. So Christ died for all. God didn't work off of Foreknowledge, let alone foreknowledge of those who would reject. Foreknowledge only reveals that God didn't work off of Foreknowledge.
 
L

Ladodgers6

Well-known member
John 10: 25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”
 
Carbon

Carbon

Well-known member
Ladodgers6 said:
John 10: 25Jesus answered them, “I told you, and you do not believe. The works that I do in my Father’s name bear witness about me, 26but you do not believe because you are not among my sheep. 27My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. 28I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand. 29My Father, who has given them to me, is greater than all, and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. 30I and the Father are one.”
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Oh there must be some way to deny these truths and explain it away.

Watch and see.
 
preacher4truth

preacher4truth

Well-known member
Christian said:
its your gospel that is of works not mine lol.
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False charges all you got? Nothing in my Gospel is works.

And you have zero answer for the passages you alluded to, nor the ones you quoted which I addressed you on, showing your error.

You've misused James 4:6 as a "how to get saved" verse when you alluded to it. Sorry, that's written to believers. Did you know believers are already saved?

The other texts are descriptive, not prescriptive, so you misused God's holy word. You need a lesson in 2 Timothy 2:15.

What is truly alarming is you misused them to support your works/merited "grace" "gospel" message that you picked up on your apostatizing journey.

Now I'll wait for you to show me where anything I TRULY believe is a works Gospel. Get to it, let's see the absurd charges you try to bring out of nada.
Christian said:
projecting again.
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Nope. Sorry. I nailed you. Shooting fish in a barrell. Taking candy from a baby.
Christian said:
already refuted you below her
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Never happened. Showing me your one of your threads links doesn't show or prove any refutation, it just shows you made a thread. Only the naive would believe giving a link proves your false charges.
 
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