Who do you say that I Am ?

civic

Well-known member
Jesus asked that question and lets here the testimony of Jesus, the Apostles and scripture.

Jesus said He was the I Am who existed before Abraham was born. He says He is the Savior, Lord, Christ, The Alpha and Omega the First and the Last. The names and titles of YHWH for sure

John calls Him God, YHWH and true God in his writings

Peter call Him God and Savior in his writings

Jude calls Him the only Lord to the exclusion of all others.

Paul calls Him God, Lord, Lord over all, YHWH in his writings

Thomas called Him God.

Now the question remains today? Can you confess like those above that Jesus is YHWH(God) ?

If not then you deny the Son. Remember Jesus also said those who deny the Son the Father will also deny !

Lets see what the Apostles who were inspired by God to record in Scripture

Matthew
Matthew said He was Immanuel, God with us- Matthew 1:23

John
John said the Word was God and the Word became flesh John 1:1,14
John said Jesus is the True God and Eternal Life- 1 John 5:20
John said Jesus is the I AM ( YHWH) the Alpha and Omega, The First and the Last- Revelation 22:12-13
John said Jesus is the Lord God Almighty, the Alpha and Omega- Revelation 1:8

Thomas
Thomas said Jesus was His Lord and His God- John 20:28

Peter
Peter said Jesus is our God and Savior- 2 Peter 1:1

James
James said Jesus is the Lord that elders call upon to heal the sick- James 5-14
James said the Prophets spoke in His name YHWH- James 5-10

Jude
Jude said He is YHWH, the Only Sovereign and Lord- Jude 1:4
Jude said Jesus is the Lord( YHWH) who delivered his people out of Egypt- Jude 1:8

Paul
Paul says Jesus is our God and Savior- Titus 2:13
Paul says Jesus is YHWH( Lord)- Romans 10:13 and Joel 2:32

Author of Hebrews
He said Jesus is the Creator who is YHWH that made everything and called Him God- Hebrews 1:8-10

Jesus
Jesus said He is the I Am ( YHWH)- John 8:58
Jesus said he who has seen Me has seen the Father- John 14:9
Jesus said He was EQUAL with the Father- John 5:17-18

So my question is since all these who were inspired to write these TRUTHS down concerning the Person of Christ, why do people not share this with others ?

Why do people in the church not share this with others when they witness ?

Why are people afraid to tell others who the REAL JESUS is ? God Incarnate

No one can say Jesus is LORD (YHWH) except by the Spirit !

hope this helps !!!
 

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Now the question remains today? Can you confess like those above that Jesus is YHWH(God) ?

Yes!!! I confess “Jesus is YHWH (God)”!!!

Do YOU?

Whereas Trinitarians confess “Jesus is one of three called YHWH (God)”.

And Unitarians confess “Jesus was adopted by YHWH (God)”.
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
Yes!!! I confess “Jesus is YHWH (God)”!!!
Do YOU?
Whereas Trinitarians confess “Jesus is one of three called YHWH (God)”.
And Unitarians confess “Jesus was adopted by YHWH (God)”.
You deliberately misrepresent what Trinitarians believe. Does that give you a feeling of superiority over them?
Here succinctly is what Trinitarian believe and it speaks for itself in does not require all that phony "Which person did this, that or the other etc. etc. etc."
There is one God. The Father is God but He is not the Son or the Holy Spirit. The Son is God but He is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God but He is not the Son or the Father. There is one God.
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
You deliberately misrepresent what Trinitarians believe. Does that give you a feeling of superiority over them?
Here succinctly is what Trinitarian believe and it speaks for itself in does not require all that phony "Which person did this, that or the other etc. etc. etc."
There is one God. The Father is God but He is not the Son or the Holy Spirit. The Son is God but He is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God but He is not the Son or the Father. There is one God.

You said:
"There is one God. The Father is God but He is not the Son or the Holy Spirit. The Son is God but He is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God but He is not the Son or the Father. There is one God."

You are likely aware that others are called Elohim and θεός who are not the one God. Paul says

1 Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or on earth; as there are gods many, and lords many;

But note that Paul says the "one God" is the Father, all by Himself!

6 yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him.

In Greek, the phrase "one God, the Father" is a convertible proposition.

Of this construction, Wallace says:
'But there is another, less frequent semantic relationship between S and PN. Sometimes called a convertible proposition, this construction indicates an identical exchange. That is to say, both nouns have an identical referent. The mathematical formulas of A=B, B=A are applicable in such instances. A statement such as “Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player in NBA history” means the same thing as “the greatest player in NBA history is Michael Jordan.” There is complete interchange between the two.' (The Basics of New Testament Syntax Copyright © 2000 by Daniel B. Wallace)

It's not enough to say that in some contexts θεός is predicated to the Son of God. That does not make him the "one God" to Paul and Christians.

You end with "There is one God" and you are correct, but the inspired Bible writers identify that one God as the Father.

In fact "There is complete interchange between" the term "one God" and the "Father" according to the Greek grammar by Dan Wallace (who I quote as a hostile witness.)
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
You said:
"There is one God. The Father is God but He is not the Son or the Holy Spirit. The Son is God but He is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. The Holy Spirit is God but He is not the Son or the Father. There is one God."
You are likely aware that others are called Elohim and θεός who are not the one God. Paul says
1 Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or on earth; as there are gods many, and lords many;
But note that Paul says the "one God" is the Father, all by Himself!
6 yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him.
In Greek, the phrase "one God, the Father" is a convertible proposition.
Of this construction, Wallace says:
'But there is another, less frequent semantic relationship between S and PN. Sometimes called a convertible proposition, this construction indicates an identical exchange. That is to say, both nouns have an identical referent. The mathematical formulas of A=B, B=A are applicable in such instances. A statement such as “Michael Jordan is the greatest basketball player in NBA history” means the same thing as “the greatest player in NBA history is Michael Jordan.” There is complete interchange between the two.' (The Basics of New Testament Syntax Copyright © 2000 by Daniel B. Wallace)
It's not enough to say that in some contexts θεός is predicated to the Son of God. That does not make him the "one God" to Paul and Christians.
You end with "There is one God" and you are correct, but the inspired Bible writers identify that one God as the Father.
In fact "There is complete interchange between" the term "one God" and the "Father" according to the Greek grammar by Dan Wallace (who I quote as a hostile witness.)
I am surprised that you quoted 1 Cor 8:5. Those many were not "called gods" by any Christians or Jews. What unbelievers might have called "gods" that has no bearing on this topic.
It would be interesting to know what Wallace said about John 1:1, John 1:8, John 20:27, Acts 20:28, 2 Peter 1:1, et al
I have both bound and digital GGBB. I might look those up some day.
When that day comes I will say to the father I honored the Son exactly the same I did the Father.

John 5:23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.
 

Justword

Member
You are likely aware that others are called Elohim and θεός who are not the one God. Paul says

1 Co 8:5 For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or on earth; as there are gods many, and lords many;

But note that Paul says the "one God" is the Father, all by Himself!

6 yet to us there is one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we unto him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom are all things, and we through him.

In Greek, the phrase "one God, the Father" is a convertible proposition.
So very interesting, how if just simply reading into the Chapter , the clarity and vindication of the message, God interprets His own Word. Yet the worldly theological deconstructionists, try to fit their agenda,
this Word is for the fisherman not of private interpretation. Read it as written in the context of the instruction of Paul!
“Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. But if any man love God, the same is known of him. As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭8:1-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
I am surprised that you quoted 1 Cor 8:5. Those many were not "called gods" by any Christians or Jews. What unbelievers might have called "gods" that has no bearing on this topic.

That sidesteps the point I made. You apparently use the term "one God" differently that does Paul.

At Ephesians 4:6 it's "One God and Father of all."

To a Trinitarian the one God is three. But to Paul it's


It would be interesting to know what Wallace said about John 1:1, John 1:8, John 20:27, Acts 20:28, 2 Peter 1:1, et al

I am sure you know as I do. That's why I said I quote him as a hostile w

I have both bound and digital GGBB. I might look those up some day.
When that day comes I will say to the father I honored the Son exactly the same I did the Father.

John 5:23 that all may honor the Son just as they honor the Father. Whoever does not honor the Son does not honor the Father, who sent him.

Look at why Jesus said this. Verse 23 starts with ίνα and gives verse 22 as the reason why we honor the Son like this. It's because the Father delegated judgement to the Son. And notice in 23b that this honors the Father who sent him.

This reminds me of what Jesus said at John 13:20 that to receive the disciples sent by Jesus is to receive him and to receive Jesus is to receive his Father.
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
So very interesting, how if just simply reading into the Chapter , the clarity and vindication of the message, God interprets His own Word. Yet the worldly theological deconstructionists, try to fit their agenda,
this Word is for the fisherman not of private interpretation. Read it as written in the context of the instruction of Paul!
“Now as touching things offered unto idols, we know that we all have knowledge. Knowledge puffeth up, but charity edifieth. And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. But if any man love God, the same is known of him. As concerning therefore the eating of those things that are offered in sacrifice unto idols, we know that an idol is nothing in the world, and that there is none other God but one. For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.”
‭‭1 Corinthians‬ ‭8:1-6‬ ‭KJV‬‬

This discussion is about why the Father can be called the one God all by Himself, when the Son is not and when the one God to Trinitarians is the Trinity.
 

Justword

Member
This discussion is about why the Father can be called the one God all by Himself, when the Son is not and when the one God to Trinitarians is the Trinity.
Jesus and God are indistinguishable.
Jesus is God tabernacled in the flesh and blood body of the man Lord Jesus Christ.
When you see Jesus you see God in the flesh.
“Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:9-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Jesus is Born of the Holy Ghost
“Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Don't get caught up with titles and offices , by doing so you will be making God into pieces and multiple fathers. One God many offices and Titles.
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
This discussion is about why the Father can be called the one God all by Himself, when the Son is not and when the one God to Trinitarians is the Trinity.
Most folks would miss that subtle little twisting of words. Wrong! Most Trinitarians do NOT consider the one God is the the Trinity.
Most Trinitarians believe that God has revealed Himself as Triune. God is God "Trinity" is a description.
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
That sidesteps the point I made. You apparently use the term "one God" differently that does Paul.
At Ephesians 4:6 it's "One God and Father of all."
To a Trinitarian the one God is three. But to Paul it's
I am sure you know as I do. That's why I said I quote him as a hostile w
Look at why Jesus said this. Verse 23 starts with ίνα and gives verse 22 as the reason why we honor the Son like this. It's because the Father delegated judgement to the Son. And notice in 23b that this honors the Father who sent him.
This reminds me of what Jesus said at John 13:20 that to receive the disciples sent by Jesus is to receive him and to receive Jesus is to receive his Father.
Something I would consider very helpful if you refer to a vs. please quote it so I don't have to go elsewhere to read the verse and try to figure out what you are talking about. TYIA
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
Something I would consider very helpful if you refer to a vs. please quote it so I don't have to go elsewhere to read the verse and try to figure out what you are talking about. TYIA
I presumed you recognized the verse you led with in the post to which I responded. It included your quotation of John 5:23 and I was discussing the same verse 23 and the one that preceded it. But of course you already knew that.

Do you have a response that deals with the text?
 

Roger Thornhill

Well-known member
Most folks would miss that subtle little twisting of words. Wrong! Most Trinitarians do NOT consider the one God is the the Trinity.
Most Trinitarians believe that God has revealed Himself as Triune. God is God "Trinity" is a description.
Did you take a poll of most Trinitarians?

Let me break this down for you. Many Trinitarians are familiar with the three "who's"'and one "what."

The three "who's" are the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. The one "what" is the Divine substance, what God is, not who He is.

Whenever there is one of something to the Trinitarian it is not a person.

Do you disagree?
 

Justword

Member
Jesus and God are indistinguishable.
Jesus is God tabernacled in the flesh and blood body of the man Lord Jesus Christ.
When you see Jesus you see God in the flesh.
“Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father? Believest thou not that I am in the Father, and the Father in me? the words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that dwelleth in me, he doeth the works. Believe me that I am in the Father, and the Father in me: or else believe me for the very works' sake. Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.”
‭‭John‬ ‭14:9-12‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Jesus is Born of the Holy Ghost
“Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.”
‭‭Matthew‬ ‭1:18‬ ‭KJV‬‬
Don't get caught up with titles and offices , by doing so you will be making God into pieces and multiple fathers. One God many offices and titles
Most folks would miss that subtle little twisting of words. Wrong! Most Trinitarians do NOT consider the one God is the the Trinity.
Most Trinitarians believe that God has revealed Himself as Triune. God is God "Trinity" is a description.
Funny how the word trinity and trinitarian gets a broad brush as if there aren't assorted versions of this unscriptural word.
There are equally an assortment of self described oneness with differing views.

I believe both are wrong , one goes north east and the other south east, when we want due east.

The great Jehovah appeared to Israel in a pillar of fire. As the Angel of the Covenant He lived in that pillar of fire and led Israel daily. At the temple He announced His coming with a great cloud. Then one day He was manifested in a virgin-born body that was prepared for Him. The God that tabernacled above the tents of Israel now took on Himself a tent of flesh and tabernacled as a man amongst men. But He was the SAME GOD.

The Bible teaches that GOD WAS IN CHRIST. The BODY was Jesus. In Him dwelt all the fulness of the Godhead, BODILY. *****Nothing can be plainer than that. Mystery, yes. But actual truth — it can’t be plainer. So if He wasn’t three people then, He can’t be three now. ONE GOD: And this same God was made flesh.

Jesus said, “I came from God, and I go (back) to God.” John 16:27-28. That is exactly what happened. He disappeared from earth by way of His death, burial, resurrection, and ascension. Then Paul met Him on the road to Damascus and He spoke to Paul and said, “Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou Me?” Paul said, “Who art Thou, Lord?” He said, “I am Jesus.” ****

He was a pillar of fire, a blinding light. He had turned back, exactly as He said He would. Back to the same form that He was before He took on a tabernacle of flesh. That is exactly how John saw it. John 1:18, “No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten Son, Which is in the bosom of the Father, He hath declared Him.” Notice where John says that Jesus IS. He is IN the bosom of the Father.

Luke 2:11 says, “For unto you is born this day in the city of David a Saviour, Which is Christ the Lord.” He was born the Christ, and eight days later when He was circumcised He was named Jesus,
 
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