Who does the Bible declare to be the Creator of the Universe?

Thanks for all the details about your "experience" ... another one that nobody solicited. This subforum is not for that.
I am sorry, but I dont believe any story on internet, much less those made by participants in religious forums.
This topic is about Who the Bible calls the Creator.

Gen. 2:4 This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven.

Jehovah is the Father and God of Jesus, so now you know who Gen. 2:4 is referring to.

John 8:54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. 55 Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word.

If you don't want to pay attention to me, at least believe Jesus.
 
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Lilel01 said:
Thanks for all the details about your "experience" ... another one that nobody solicited. This subforum is not for that.
I am sorry, but I dont believe any story on internet, much less those made by participants in religious forums.
This topic is about Who the Bible called the Creator.
Gen. 2:4 This is a history of the heavens and the earth in the time they were created, in the day that Jehovah God made earth and heaven.
Jehovah is the Father and God of Jesus, so now you know who Gen. 2:4 is referring to.
John 8:54 Jesus answered: “If I glorify myself, my glory is nothing. It is my Father who glorifies me, the one who you say is your God. 55 Yet you have not known him, but I know him. And if I said I do not know him, I would be like you, a liar. But I do know him and am observing his word.
If you don't want to pay attention to me, at least believe Jesus.
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문제 없어요 [Moon jae ob so yo] Korean for "no problem." My posts are not only for one specific individual. And OBTW you don't dictate to me what is/is not appropriate for this forum.
FYI there is no such name as "Jehovah." All Hebrew names, without exception, have meaning. First there is no "J" sound in Hebrew. The name יהוה/YHWH, according the Jewish Encyclopedia the name YHWH is the third person singular of אהיה/ehyeh/I am, and means, "He is."

NAMES OF GOD - JewishEncyclopedia.com

Complete contents the 1906 Jewish Encyclopedia.
www.jewishencyclopedia.com www.jewishencyclopedia.com
 
Of course, I totally understand but let me tell you something off topic:

If I was interested in all the copy / pastes you make, I would not read them from you but from the same places where you copy them to paste them here, because I have the Logos software practically since it was released ... But the least people need here is for someone to come and copy the same thing everywhere, as if it were propaganda for a book (there should be a forum rule about that). Just saying ...
 
Lilel01 said:
Of course, I totally understand but let me tell you something off topic:
If I was interested in all the copy / pastes you make, I would not read them from you but from the same places where you copy them to paste them here, because I have the Logos software practically since it was released ... But the least people need here is for someone to come and copy the same thing everywhere, as if it were propaganda for a book (there should be a forum rule about that). Just saying ...
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I assume you are responding to my post. I have been active at this forum for about 12 years and unfortunately I do not have a photographic memory, after a period of time I can't remember to whom I might have posted a particular response.
I have been active at a different forum for more than 2 decades. Quite early on I realized that the same out-of-context proof texts and specious arguments are endlessly repeated so I started saving my responses.
If I have a question about a particular verse, in either testament, to whom should I go, Andy Anonymous on forum "X" or to an acknowledged Hebrew or Greek grammar or lexicon, as appropriate? E.g. If I want to know the most likely correct translation I have D/L both the 1917 Jewish Publication society translation and the Eastern Greek Orthodox translation of the NT. Logos has both. Who better than the native Hebrew/Greek speaking scholars who translated those versions?
Should one rely on information from anonymous people who likely could not locate a Hebrew verb or parse a Greek verb if their life depended on it and don't know a hithpael from a hat rack or an aorist from an apple?
Or instead of whinging about what I post, why not try to show how you think I am wrong. Most of the counter arguments I get are in the "You're wrong and I'm right! Am too! Nuh huh!" category.
 
OldShepherd said:
(...) instead of whinging about what I post, why not try to show how you think I am wrong. Most of the counter arguments I get are in the "You're wrong and I'm right! Am too! Nuh huh!" category.
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Well, you are on someone else's topic, not a topic that you have opened. You will not receive any counter-argument from me as long as you do not have a counter-argument to what it is exposed by me. Maybe if you open your own topic and stop exposing prefabricated comments sprinkled with your personal stories that are useless on other people's topics ...

I already told you that I don't trust in any story posted on the internet; The same thing that you post as if it was a personal story, dozens of other cyber characters post them identical, and it is still as boring as ever ... and as suspicious of being part of a script of fictional cybernetic characters, with whom I am not interested in exchanging anything.

Actually, in the thirteen pages of the subforum on the doctrine of the trinity there is not a single topic that you have opened, and that is very suspicious. My intention is to help others with a dialogue between two, not with sermons. Try to do the same, with less propaganda and "stories from your life". I am not here to socialize with you, so, focus on the topic.
 
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Lilel01 said:
[Irrelevant whinging omitted]

Actually, in the thirteen pages of the subforum on the doctrine of the trinity there is not a single topic that you have opened, and that is very suspicious. My intention is to help others with a dialogue between two, not with sermons. Try to do the same, with less propaganda and "stories from your life". I am not here to socialize with you, so, focus on the topic.
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Why should I start a thread? If there was a particular topic which I think should be addressed, and has not been I will most certainly open a thread. But thus far there are enough topics already on the forum that I think need addressing so there is no need for me to start a new one.
 
Lilel01 said:
Christendom's religious leaders and their theologians have told their followers that Jesus is the Creator mentioned in the Bible.

The Bible clearly speaks of a participation as a mean that Jesus had with Jehovah, the Creator, as He created all things after He had "begotten" His Only-Begotten Son. But: has anyone ever read that Jesus is called "Creator" in all of Scripture?
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Since you are a Jehovah's Witness you should look into the following information:
The boldface above and below is mine.

1. The Watchtower: “The shepherd and overseer of your souls,” our Grand Creator, Jehovah God, will help you to achieve that goal.—1 Peter 2:25. (Shepherding With Our Grand Creator, January 1, 1993, page 19)
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1993003

2. The Watchtower: Jesus' disciples were grateful for his fellowship. Though they called him Lord and Master, he proved himself to be a fellow worker. He was their overseer, but one who set the example for them by sharing right along with them in the work that was to be done. (1 Pet. 2:25) (Giving Encouragement to Others, July 15, 1963, page 434).
https://wol.jw.org/en/wol/d/r1/lp-e/1963523
 
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Trinitarians continue to take away from Jehovah God the merit of all creation; they do not realize the difference between Creator and helper. That's why when the Bible describes that God created everything "through" Jesus, they remove "through" and put "by", to distort biblical truth at will.

The apostles knew very well who is the Creator of all that exists:

Acts 4:24 Upon hearing this they with one accord raised their voices to God and said:
“Sovereign Lord, you are the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and all the things in them, 25 and who through holy spirit said by the mouth of our forefather David, your servant, ‘Why did nations become tumultuous and peoples meditate upon empty things? 26 The kings of the earth took their stand and the rulers massed together as one against Jehovah and against his anointed one.’ 27 Even so, both Herod and Pontius Pilate with [men of] nations and with peoples of Israel were in actuality gathered together in this city against your holy servant Jesus, whom you anointed, 28 in order to do what things your hand and counsel had foreordained to occur. 29 And now, Jehovah, give attention to their threats, and grant your slaves to keep speaking your word with all boldness, 30 while you stretch out your hand for healing and while signs and portents occur through the name of your holy servant Jesus.”

It is the very reason why they have blatantly removed Jehovah's name from the OT more than 6000 times, to make believe that "the Lord" spoken of is Jesus Christ instead of his Father and God, Jehovah.

Is. 29:15 Woe to those who are going very deep in concealing counsel from Jehovah himself, and whose deeds have occurred in a dark place, while they say: “Who is seeing us, and who is knowing of us?” 16 The perversity of YOU men! Should the potter himself be accounted just like the clay? For should the thing made say respecting its maker: “He did not make me”? And does the very thing formed actually say respecting its former: “He showed no understanding”?
 
Trinitarian translators and versionists removed Jehovah's name from the Scriptures OVER 6000 TIMES...Unbelievable!!!! That is why believers who try to study the Bible do not realize that it says thousands of times that Jehovah is the Creator of the entire Universe.

Is. 45:18 For this is what Jehovah says,
The Creator of the heavens, the true God,
The One who formed the earth, its Maker who firmly established it,
Who did not create it simply for nothing, but formed it to be inhabited:
“I am Jehovah, and there is no one else.
19 I did not speak in a concealed place, in a land of darkness;
I did not say to the offspring of Jacob,
‘Seek me simply for nothing.’
I am Jehovah, who speaks what is righteous and declares what is upright.
 
The JW's are very confused as to whether or not Jehovah or Jesus is being referred to in many passages.
 
The anti-Witnesses blatantly lie about the preaching work of the Jehovah's Witnesses, because by teaching biblical truths, the lies are exposed. That is why they try to disqualify the Jehovah's Witnesses and label them as heretics and other disqualifiers. But it is easy to realize that they resort to such perverse methods because they are incapable of assuming the biblical reality, and cannot refute the truths that are clearly shown by the Witnesses. Who does not see this, it is because he has decided to go blind.

2 Thes. 2:6 And now you know what is acting as a restraint, so that he will be revealed in his own due time. 7 True, the mystery of this lawlessness is already at work, but only until the one who is right now acting as a restraint is out of the way. 8 Then, indeed, the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord Jesus will do away with by the spirit of his mouth and bring to nothing by the manifestation of his presence. 9 But the lawless one’s presence is by the operation of Satan with every powerful work and lying signs and wonders 10 and every unrighteous deception for those who are perishing, as a retribution because they did not accept the love of the truth in order that they might be saved. 11 That is why God lets a deceptive influence mislead them so that they may come to believe the lie, 12 in order that they all may be judged because they did not believe the truth but took pleasure in unrighteousness.
 
Lilel01 said:
The anti-Witnesses blatantly lie about the preaching work of the Jehovah's Witnesses,
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Their own words are cited so your argument is simply a ruse.

  - The most numerous flip-flops by the JW's (Romans 10:11)

There are quite a few other passages, but from what I have seen Romans 10:11 is the passage the JW's Witnesses have gone back and forth most on. Does the singular "him" refers to Jehovah (their creator) or to Jesus (their creature)? Citations are from the most recent going to the past. The...
forums.carm.org
 
Notice how they ignore everything the Bible says. They think it's a matter of playing with words to see who wins. They do not realize how much they get deeper and deeper into the mire of their own religious fantasies. Deep down they believe that their lies are above what the Scripture itself and Jesus Christ himself says. They consider themselves more Christian than Christ himself.

John 5:19 Therefore, in answer, Jesus went on to say to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son also does in like manner. 20 For the Father has affection for the Son and shows him all the things he himself does, and he will show him works greater than these, in order that YOU may marvel.
 
Lilel01 said:
Christendom's religious leaders and their theologians have told their followers that Jesus is the Creator mentioned in the Bible.

The Bible clearly speaks of a participation as a mean that Jesus had with Jehovah, the Creator, as He created all things after He had "begotten" His Only-Begotten Son. But: has anyone ever read that Jesus is called "Creator" in all of Scripture?
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Yep! In John 1 and Col. 1
 
Lilel01 said:
Notice how they ignore everything the Bible says. They think it's a matter of playing with words to see who wins. They do not realize how much they get deeper and deeper into the mire of their own religious fantasies. Deep down they believe that their lies are above what the Scripture itself and Jesus Christ himself says. They consider themselves more Christian than Christ himself.

John 5:19 Therefore, in answer, Jesus went on to say to them: “Most truly I say to YOU, The Son cannot do a single thing of his own initiative, but only what he beholds the Father doing. For whatever things that One does, these things the Son also does in like manner. 20 For the Father has affection for the Son and shows him all the things he himself does, and he will show him works greater than these, in order that YOU may marvel.
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IOW Father and Son ALWAYS work TOGETHER.
 
Believe me, I am not writing here for the stubborn people who will never change, because they are enemies of the truth even if they don't realize it... I write for the sincere people who can see the truth and learn it. Those are going to notice it no matter what you misrepresent, because it is written like this:

John 3:16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."

Matt. 18:14 Likewise, it is not a desirable thing to my Father who is in heaven for even one of these little ones to perish.
 
Lilel01 said:
Believe me, I am not writing here for the stubborn people who will never change, because they are enemies of the truth even if they don't realize it... I write for the sincere people who can see the truth and learn it. Those are going to notice it no matter what you misrepresent, because it is written like this:

John 3:16 “For God loved the world so much that he gave his only-begotten Son, so that everyone exercising faith in him might not be destroyed but have everlasting life."

Matt. 18:14 Likewise, it is not a desirable thing to my Father who is in heaven for even one of these little ones to perish.
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Everyone who BELIEVES in Him.
 
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