Who has authority to judge a topic or doctrine a Heresy ???

[Buzzard]

Buzzard said:
Typical of an SDA,
unstable as water,, wishy-washie, never able nor willing to give a straight answer,
like a used car salesman, {Additional Emphasis by SDAchristian}

Is the word "never", the whole Truth in your opinion ???

Rather than condemning me for not answering, why do you NOT give me, your answer that I asked for ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

because you are the SDA;
its up to you to defend your beliefs;
not my job, man, not my job

why the reluctance to do so;

what are you ashamed of

 

[Formersda]

So little patience, as I answer posts. But I see where your mind went with this.

You do realize, you are generating posts filled with your opinion faster, than I can give you an rebuttal with scriptures.

But realize GOD's patience will run out out too, and we will be all tested to what we know.

AV Re 16:5-7 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. 6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. 7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous [are] thy judgments.

Then the sorting begins with murderers and martyrs. Will the murderers have enough patience to distinguish "saints and prophets" from others ???

BTW, This is my last post for a while, while run errands the rest of the afternoon.

Yours in Christ, Michael

What I did was exactly what Adventists do, the thing is you answer 1 question with a whole load of cut n paste proof texts. Try and use them to prove a point.
You have not answered the questions clearly your trying cause confusion, you see I am in the new covenant, your under the old and because you are not fully believing that Jesus came and fulfilled the old covenant your under the Law. As such, you will be judged by the Law, if you say you work 7 days but your not like Jesus who is sin free your breaking the Law. Your not Jesus.
The rest of us are under the new covenant Ephesians 2:15 by abolishing in His flesh the emnity, which is the Law of commandments contained in ordinances, so that in Himself He might make the two into one new man, thus establishing peace.
Galatians 3:23-25 But before faith came, we where kept in custody under the law, being shut up to the faith which was later to be revealed. Therefore, the Law has become our tutor to lead us to Christ so that we maybe justified by faith. But now that faith has come, we are no longer under the tutor.
SDA’s think they can keep the Law well unless you can prove to me that you are not breaking the 4th commandment we can’t discuss. Oh and btw the 10 commandments where not in heaven before creation nor will they be in heaven after the second coming, there is no 24 hour system in heaven, that’s why when the psalmist and Peter say 1 day is like 1000 years it’s a metaphor for God being outside our time and space.
But Jesus who is God tells us exactly what a day is in John 11:9 He said isn’t a day 12 hours? I’m inclined to believe Jesus saying a day is 12 hours rather than Adventists taking a metaphor and making it literal to prove a false doctrin.

 

[civic]

AV Ga 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies{G139 hairesis}, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Who can judge what is heresy ???

Who has authority to judge a topic or doctrine a Heresy ???

Who can judge the penalty of heresy, in light of GOD's decision for our salvation or not ???

---

AV Ac 24:5 For we have found this man [a] pestilent [fellow], and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect{G139 hairesis} of the Nazarenes:

Usurper of divine authority is a blasphemer, to make judgments for GOD.

So where did this authority come from to call Jesus' followers heretics ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

Scripture is our guide. Does once teachings line up with Scripture ?

Scripture declares there is the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.

1)God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit- does one acknowledge or deny this ?
2) Does one acknowledge that Jesus is both God and man ?
3) Does one believe we are saved by grace through faith apart form works ?
4) Does one believe Jesus lived a sinless life, died, buried, was Resurrected on the 3rd Day according to the Scriptures as per 1 Cor 15 ?
5) Does one believe in the Gospel Paul tells us in 1 Cor 15 for salvation and confess Jesus is Lord(YHWH) as per Romans 10:9-13 and Joel 2:32 ?

2 Timothy 3:16 says all Scripture is God Breathed (inspired by God) and profitable for reproof, correction etc.......
Peter in 2 Peter 3:16 refers to all of Pauls epistles as Scripture knowing that they were writing Gods word and their letters were on par with the O.T.

These are just a few essentials and there are more we can ask and determine if one believes the truth or a lie.

hope this helps !!!

 

[Yakuda]

"God gave you a brain didn't he?", Just as GOD did yours.

The flow of discussion is, GOD's court is higher than "America has a supreme court". So we can discuss the ultimate authority, and NOT man's authority.

"Why do you think America has a supreme court?", to judge conflict in "America".

"Why do you think" GOD "has a supreme court?", to judge conflict/sin in all of creation of GOD.

The ultimate authority is with GOD, and NOT with any created man or spirit, and procreated man.

AV Hb 10:29-31 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace? 30 For we know him that hath said, Vengeance [belongeth] unto me, I will recompense, saith the Lord. And again, The Lord shall judge his people. 31 [It is] a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.

The ultimate blasphemy is to judge for GOD in "Vengeance" acts, what is GOD's alone to judge.

AV Re 13:1 And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy.
AV Re 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty [and] two months.
AV Re 13:6 And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against God, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven.
AV Re 13:7 And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations.

A scope question of who(men) commits blasphemy of judgment: Are the Popes guilty of blasphemy then, in eyes of heaven ???

AV Mt 23:29-36 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! because ye build the tombs of the prophets, and garnish the sepulchres of the righteous, 30 And say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets. 31 Wherefore ye be witnesses unto yourselves, that ye are the children of them which killed the prophets. 32 Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. 33 [Ye] serpents, [ye] generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? 34 Wherefore, behold, I send unto you prophets, and wise men, and scribes: and [some] of them ye shall kill and crucify; and [some] of them shall ye scourge in your synagogues, and persecute [them] from city to city: 35 That upon you may come all the righteous blood shed upon the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel unto the blood of Zacharias son of Barachias, whom ye slew between the temple and the altar. 36 Verily I say unto you, All these things shall come upon this generation.

AV Re 16:4-6 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. 6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy.

We can go in many directions with judgment, I'm Ready !!! The ultimate destination is, GOD's rule wins !!!

Yours in Christ, Michael

Wow you think writing volumes makes you a winner? This is why normal people get tired of you "bible believing" Christians. You have no interest in discussion. Is it that you are afraid or just don't understand?

 

[jonathan_hili]

AV Ga 5:19-21 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness, 20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies{G139 hairesis}, 21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.

Who can judge what is heresy ???

Who has authority to judge a topic or doctrine a Heresy ???

Who can judge the penalty of heresy, in light of GOD's decision for our salvation or not ???

---

AV Ac 24:5 For we have found this man [a] pestilent [fellow], and a mover of sedition among all the Jews throughout the world, and a ringleader of the sect{G139 hairesis} of the Nazarenes:

Usurper of divine authority is a blasphemer, to make judgments for GOD.

So where did this authority come from to call Jesus' followers heretics ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

The magisterium of the Church has that authority.

 

[SDAchristian]

The magisterium of the Church has that authority.

AV Re 17:5-6 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Do they also have the authority and right to set the penalty(Like death, to be executed by the local government) of heresy too ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[Formersda]

AV Re 17:5-6 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Do they also have the authority and right to set the penalty(Like death, to be executed by the local government) of heresy too ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

I take it you are referring again to the Catholic Church? Because the magisterium of the sda church being GC when in session has the authority to set doctrines, do they have authority to set the death penalty to be executed at local government level for heresy?
You must think the Catholic Church has a lot of power, this is the same church with numbers of converts going down? Who has been rocked by scandal after scandal.
I take it you live in the USA, I say that because most other nations don’t have capital punishment or right to bear arms.
Indeed, if the Sunday law comes from the USA wouldn’t that mean they are the antichrist and the beast the one with seven heads and ten horns? Think you’ll find that the SDA church was questioned by the US government as early as 1870’s for preaching this that they had to change it otherwise they would be held for treason. So did God give EGW another vision to clarify the matter? Didn’t God know for certain? Is God a liar or EGW?
To bring in the Sunday law as you think would be unconstitutional in all nations. France is a secular nation where there is complete separation of state and church why would they now bring in a law to mandate everyone going to church in Sunday’s? What about the European convention on humans rights? That convention protects against interference from the state in religious matters it also protects those who don’t practice religion, is France now going to go against that Law? What about the United Nations convention on human rights? This also does the same will this be taken away?
When has another countries Law/s been forced into another country? What Adventists don’t get is they have got it wrong, and by suggesting that all Adventists will be killed because of a Law is advocating another holocaust, which btw no one has the stomach for.
You are wrong wrong wrong.

 

[SDAchristian]

I take it you are referring again to the Catholic Church?
...
You are wrong wrong wrong.

Is History wrong as well ???

CHAPTER IV Papal Persecutions
Thus far our history of persecution has been confined principally to the pagan world. We come now to a period when persecution, under the guise of Christianity, committed more enormities than ever disgraced the annals of paganism. Disregarding the maxims and the spirit of the Gospel, the papal Church, arming herself with the power of the sword, vexed the Church of God and wasted it for several centuries, a period most appropriately termed in history, the "dark ages." The kings of the earth, gave their power to the "Beast," and submitted to be trodden on by the miserable vermin that often filled the papal chair, as in the case of Henry, emperor of Germany. The storm of papal persecution first burst upon the Waldenses in France.

What I really like about GOD doing prophecy is that, it's so sure in fulfillment. Fulfilled Prophecy is GOD's second chance to change our minds, in the living who view it happening.

Looking forward to you being an SDA again !!!

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[SDAchristian]

"Why do you think America has a supreme court?", to judge conflict in "America".

Wow you think writing volumes makes you a winner? This is why normal people get tired of you "bible believing" Christians. You have no interest in discussion. Is it that you are afraid or just don't understand?

I answered your question. So I am wondering your purpose in asking it ???

"Wow you think writing volumes makes you a winner?", As I understand, I post.

"Is it that you are afraid or just don't understand?", Is that you, projecting your view on me ???

This is a discussion forum. And I participate from my view of view. I expect other posters to post from their point of view in discussion. It's a bilateral learning experience.

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[SDAchristian]

You would be except if your a priest or pastor, are you any of these

AV Eph 4:8-13 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. 9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? 10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.) 11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ:

These "gifts" were GOD given, and should be recognized by GOD's people, in the NC/NT. OC/OT, it was by bloodline in the Levites for service in the earthly temple.

AV Re 16:4-7 And the third angel poured out his vial upon the rivers and fountains of waters; and they became blood. 5 And I heard the angel of the waters say, Thou art righteous, O Lord, which art, and wast, and shalt be, because thou hast judged thus. 6 For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets, and thou hast given them blood to drink; for they are worthy. 7 And I heard another out of the altar say, Even so, Lord God Almighty, true and righteous [are] thy judgments.

GOD has a special plague for "For they have shed the blood of saints and prophets ..."

It stands to reason, they did not pass the pre-advent or investigative judgement.

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[Formersda]

Is History wrong as well ???

What I really like about GOD doing prophecy is that, it's so sure in fulfillment. Fulfilled Prophecy is GOD's second chance to change our minds, in the living who view it happening.

Looking forward to you being an SDA again !!!

Yours in Christ, Michael

So I suppose now your going to say the sda church is truth. There is no more to discuss I’ve said enough to show what Adventism is about. EGW is blasphemous. You guys are going to hell. Best of luck in the Sunday law persecution, as I am a lawyer I’ll be prosecutor. You are going to be spat out by God, you will be going to hell for turning ppl away from God.
You don’t even know how to read scripture without EGW, well the rest of us with God given intelligence can read an discern.
You lost your credibility here.

 

[jonathan_hili]

AV Re 17:5-6 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Do they also have the authority and right to set the penalty(Like death, to be executed by the local government) of heresy too ???

Yours in Christ, Michael

No. The death penalty is the province of the secular authorities, except in places where the Church/secular authorities overlapped (e.g. theocratic states, like the Papal States).

 

[Formersda]

T

 

[SDAchristian]

No. The death penalty is the province of the secular authorities, except in places where the Church/secular authorities overlapped (e.g. theocratic states, like the Papal States).

AV Re 17:5-6 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Which is worst, GOD's Prophecy or ...

CHAPTER IV Papal Persecutions
Thus far our history of persecution has been confined principally to the pagan world. We come now to a period when persecution, under the guise of Christianity, committed more enormities than ever disgraced the annals of paganism. Disregarding the maxims and the spirit of the Gospel, the papal Church, arming herself with the power of the sword, vexed the Church of God and wasted it for several centuries, a period most appropriately termed in history, the "dark ages." The kings of the earth, gave their power to the "Beast," and submitted to be trodden on by the miserable vermin that often filled the papal chair, as in the case of Henry, emperor of Germany. The storm of papal persecution first burst upon the Waldenses in France.

... Past History of Papal Persecutions, does not agree with your Point of View.

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[SDAchristian]

So I suppose now your going to say the sda church is truth. There is no more to discuss I’ve said enough to show what Adventism is about. EGW is blasphemous. You guys are going to hell. Best of luck in the Sunday law persecution, as I am a lawyer I’ll be prosecutor. You are going to be spat out by God, you will be going to hell for turning ppl away from God.
You don’t even know how to read scripture without EGW, well the rest of us with God given intelligence can read an discern.
You lost your credibility here.

Your opinion will be most likely be prophecy fulfilled shortly. You heard it first from me, or maybe not.

I seem to remember that former Adventists, will be worst accusers in court.

Either me or another SDA, I am sure you will do your absolute best of your abilities to prosecute. So good in fact, that prison or death penalty will be the Judge's decision.

"... I am a lawyer I’ll be prosecutor.", This helps me understand who I have been doing forensics with.

AV Mt 12:36-37 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

I hope you retain the absolute best defense attorney for your court trial in heaven. GOD might put me on the jury, what do you think ???

AV 1C 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

"... well the rest of us with God given intelligence can read an discern.", The finished results will be to the glory of GOD.

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[SDAchristian]

...
You lost your credibility here.

So says you.

Between us, I will let GOD Omniscient judge the results of our efforts here.

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[SDAchristian]

Scripture is our guide. Does once teachings line up with Scripture ?
Scripture declares there is the spirit of truth and the spirit of error.
1)God is Father, Son and Holy Spirit- does one acknowledge or deny this ?
2) Does one acknowledge that Jesus is both God and man ?
3) Does one believe we are saved by grace through faith apart form works ?
4) Does one believe Jesus lived a sinless life, died, buried, was Resurrected on the 3rd Day according to the Scriptures as per 1 Cor 15 ?
5) Does one believe in the Gospel Paul tells us in 1 Cor 15 for salvation and confess Jesus is Lord(YHWH) as per Romans 10:9-13 and Joel 2:32 ?
2 Timothy 3:16 says all Scripture is God Breathed (inspired by God) and profitable for reproof, correction etc.......
Peter in 2 Peter 3:16 refers to all of Pauls epistles as Scripture knowing that they were writing Gods word and their letters were on par with the O.T.
These are just a few essentials and there are more we can ask and determine if one believes the truth or a lie.
hope this helps !!!

The issue of Truth is part of the issue in question.

AV Jn 8:43-46 Why do ye not understand my speech? [even] because ye cannot hear my word. 44 Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. 45 And because I tell [you] the truth, ye believe me not. 46 Which of you convinceth me of sin? And if I say the truth, why do ye not believe me?

Heresy is always related to sin, in some way and some form. So mixing Truth with a lie, always makes the result a lie, a heresy, so a sin.

Yours in Christ, Michael

 

[jonathan_hili]

AV Re 17:5-6 And upon her forehead [was] a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. 6 And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.

Which is worst, GOD's Prophecy or ...

... Past History of Papal Persecutions, does not agree with your Point of View.

Yours in Christ, Michael

Thanks Michael but Foxe's "Book of Martyrs" is hardly a trustworthy scholarly account of Christian persecution.

 

[Formersda]

Your opinion will be most likely be prophecy fulfilled shortly. You heard it first from me, or maybe not.

I seem to remember that former Adventists, will be worst accusers in court.

Either me or another SDA, I am sure you will do your absolute best of your abilities to prosecute. So good in fact, that prison or death penalty will be the Judge's decision.

"... I am a lawyer I’ll be prosecutor.", This helps me understand who I have been doing forensics with.

AV Mt 12:36-37 But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. 37 For by thy words thou shalt be justified, and by thy words thou shalt be condemned.

I hope you retain the absolute best defense attorney for your court trial in heaven. GOD might put me on the jury, what do you think ???

AV 1C 1:25 Because the foolishness of God is wiser than men; and the weakness of God is stronger than men.

"... well the rest of us with God given intelligence can read an discern.", The finished results will be to the glory of GOD.

Yours in Christ, Michael

Yep I knew you would resort to all ex Adventists will be the worst accusers, that’s a hallmark of a cult to keep people under control.
It also shows how warped the SDA’s idea of humans vindication God because the Law was unfair, btw exactly what Satan did until he was judged when Jesus died on the cross.
There is no court in heaven as you think it is, when I believe in Jesus I am saved that’s it end of. Nothing can remove me from His hand. The judgement your on about is about deeds, the judgement is never about salvation.
You fell for the bait of me being a former sda I don’t need a defence attorney as Jesus is my high priest.
You are correct that in everything it’s to glorify God, is putting people under the law when they are not under the law glorifying God?
To reject Jesus’s finished work on the cross is to deny Jesus. Revelation is not Jesus wins Jesus has won.
Again I suggest reading the whole book of Galations for a month, stop using proof texts and you’ll get a clearer picture of Jesus.
I would never go back to the sda church because doing so I would be risking my salvation.

 

[SDAchristian]

In order to address the many issues in this post, I will address it in parts.

You fell for the bait of me being a former sda I don’t need a defence attorney as Jesus is my high priest.

Is that what the serpent did to Adam and Eve was to "bait" them ???

So you need the serpent's techniques to defend yourself ???

If Jesus is your defense attorney, why is it necessary to "bait" me, to treat you in this way ???

Yours in Christ, Michael