Who here has the Holy Spirit? How can I (as an outside observer) be sure that you do?

Timket

Active member
I've been lurking around the forums and came up with a question:

Everyone here claims to have the Holy Spirit. And yet everyone disagrees. So how can I, as an outside observer (neither Catholic nor Protestant/Evangelical) determine who's telling the truth and who really has the Holy Spirit?

I can't be sure that you have the Holy Spirit just because:
  • "Because I study my Bible and pray" - everyone here claims to do that, and they all disagree.
  • "Because I follow what God's word says" - everyone claims to do that too: the Oneness Pentecostals, the Calvinists, the Catholics, the Arminians...

So what objective test am I going to use to separate the true from the deceived?
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
I've been lurking around the forums and came up with a question:

Everyone here claims to have the Holy Spirit. And yet everyone disagrees. So how can I, as an outside observer (neither Catholic nor Protestant/Evangelical) determine who's telling the truth and who really has the Holy Spirit?

I can't be sure that you have the Holy Spirit just because:
  • "Because I study my Bible and pray" - everyone here claims to do that, and they all disagree.
  • "Because I follow what God's word says" - everyone claims to do that too: the Oneness Pentecostals, the Calvinists, the Catholics, the Arminians...

So what objective test am I going to use to separate the true from the deceived?
Simple -- compare their lives with the life God put into Jesus by His SPirit. Matt 3:16. If they are any different from Jesus at all then they have formed their own religious beliefs to regulate their gods. Those who atre of God walk as He walks in His same light, they are perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect as Jesus commanded of us in Matt 5:48. Most of these say that is impossible and they dont even know why it is impossible for them. It is from lack in recieving Gods perfections in themselves as their own disposition.

WHat is that perfection? Simply Love, the only thing on this planet that is perfect and never changes for God is Love they just has made a different god to worship instead. This is the God Jesus prayed to and obeyed and called Him Father.
 

Timket

Active member
Also, my reply to my own question:

I take Jesus at His word when He said "I will found My Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matthew 16:18).

Jesus established our faith. Nobody needed to correct or improve upon what He gave - it was complete, and the Early Church only needed to obey it and pass it on.
  • "Go and make disciples ... teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." (Matthew 28:19-20, NIV)
  • "For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you" (1 Cor. 11:23)
  • "If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:9)
Because Jesus said His church would prevail through all time, this cancels the claims of any group that says the church fell into apostasy early on and needed to be refounded (Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, the Reconstructionists, etc.) - Either Jesus is a liar and the gates of hell did prevail for 1,800 years, or He is not a liar and His church has been in existence since 33 AD always the same and never changing.

This also seems to negate most of the Protestant churches: There is no Baptist Church in the 700s AD. There were no Presbyterian churches in the 900s. Jesus' Church would be around for all time, and Protestant Churches have been around for only 25% of Christian history (from the 1500s onward). Those don't seem to be the body which Christ founded because they were founded 1,500 years later.

Who can claim to be the Church? There are two bodies with direct apostolic succession and historical continuity to the Early Church: the Orthodox Church and the Catholic church.

This doesn't answer how I know who has right doctrine, but at least we narrowed down the right churches.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
Also, my reply to my own question:

I take Jesus at His word when He said "I will found My Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matthew 16:18).

Jesus established our faith. Nobody needed to correct or improve upon what He gave - it was complete, and the Early Church only needed to obey it and pass it on.
  • "Go and make disciples ... teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." (Matthew 28:19-20, NIV)
  • "For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you" (1 Cor. 11:23)
  • "If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:9)
Because Jesus said His church would prevail through all time, this cancels the claims of any group that says the church fell into apostasy early on and needed to be refounded (Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, the Reconstructionists, etc.) - Either Jesus is a liar and the gates of hell did prevail for 1,800 years, or He is not a liar and His church has been in existence since 33 AD always the same and never changing.

This also seems to negate most of the Protestant churches: There is no Baptist Church in the 700s AD. There were no Presbyterian churches in the 900s. Jesus' Church would be around for all time, and Protestant Churches have been around for only 25% of Christian history (from the 1500s onward). Those don't seem to be the body which Christ founded because they were founded 1,500 years later.

Who can claim to be the Church? There are two bodies with direct apostolic succession and historical continuity to the Early Church: the Orthodox Church and the Catholic church.

This doesn't answer how I know who has right doctrine, but at least we narrowed down the right churches.
There are no churches only one and that is those who has God as their own mind, own SPirit, same disposition perfect as our Father in heaven is perfect walk as He walks in His same light with the same signs following. His church doesnt have a lable His church is as He is.

Nothing is so important as to keep right spiritually. The great solution is the simple one. Come iunto me. The depth of reality, intellectually, moraly, and Spiritually, is tested by these very words. In every degree in which you are not real will dispute instead of come.
 

Woody50

Well-known member
Everyone here claims to have the Holy Spirit. And yet everyone disagrees. So how can I, as an outside observer (neither Catholic nor Protestant/Evangelical) determine who's telling the truth and who really has the Holy Spirit?
Galatians 5:22-23.

You read the Bible, yes?
 

e v e

Super Member
I've been lurking around the forums and came up with a question:

Everyone here claims to have the Holy Spirit. And yet everyone disagrees. So how can I, as an outside observer (neither Catholic nor Protestant/Evangelical) determine who's telling the truth and who really has the Holy Spirit?

I can't be sure that you have the Holy Spirit just because:
  • "Because I study my Bible and pray" - everyone here claims to do that, and they all disagree.
  • "Because I follow what God's word says" - everyone claims to do that too: the Oneness Pentecostals, the Calvinists, the Catholics, the Arminians...

So what objective test am I going to use to separate the true from the deceived?
His spirit will stay with and like who His spirit chooses.
It's God who chooses such a thing.
 

e v e

Super Member
The gospel of "I am saved already" is a horrible mess
and leads many souls astray.
 

e v e

Super Member
Simple -- compare their lives with the life God put into Jesus by His SPirit. Matt 3:16. If they are any different from Jesus at all then they have formed their own religious beliefs to regulate their gods. Those who atre of God walk as He walks in His same light, they are perfect even as your Father in heaven is perfect as Jesus commanded of us in Matt 5:48. Most of these say that is impossible and they dont even know why it is impossible for them. It is from lack in recieving Gods perfections in themselves as their own disposition.

WHat is that perfection? Simply Love, the only thing on this planet that is perfect and never changes for God is Love they just has made a different god to worship instead. This is the God Jesus prayed to and obeyed and called Him Father.
a soul can compare this life all day ...but this life and its things is not the point....


He wants Sons who want to go Home to Eden and Restore Eden.
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
Also, my reply to my own question:

I take Jesus at His word when He said "I will found My Church, and the gates of hell will not prevail against it" (Matthew 16:18).

Jesus established our faith. Nobody needed to correct or improve upon what He gave - it was complete, and the Early Church only needed to obey it and pass it on.
  • "Go and make disciples ... teaching them to obey everything I have commanded you." (Matthew 28:19-20, NIV)
  • "For I received from the Lord what I also passed on to you" (1 Cor. 11:23)
  • "If any man preach any other gospel unto you than that ye have received, let him be accursed" (Galatians 1:9)
Because Jesus said His church would prevail through all time, this cancels the claims of any group that says the church fell into apostasy early on and needed to be refounded (Mormons, Jehovah's Witnesses, the Reconstructionists, etc.) - Either Jesus is a liar and the gates of hell did prevail for 1,800 years, or He is not a liar and His church has been in existence since 33 AD always the same and never changing.

This also seems to negate most of the Protestant churches: There is no Baptist Church in the 700s AD. There were no Presbyterian churches in the 900s. Jesus' Church would be around for all time, and Protestant Churches have been around for only 25% of Christian history (from the 1500s onward). Those don't seem to be the body which Christ founded because they were founded 1,500 years later.

Who can claim to be the Church? There are two bodies with direct apostolic succession and historical continuity to the Early Church: the Orthodox Church and the Catholic church.

This doesn't answer how I know who has right doctrine, but at least we narrowed down the right churches.
THE church, HIS church is simply the body of believers....

Now YOU ARE the body of Christ, and members individually....1 cor 12

It's not ONE church, or one denomination....Those born from above are HIS church, the body of Christ, regardless of what church building they happen to sit in.
 

Timket

Active member
@mica - You answered on the other thread:

scripture. The Holy Spirit can not teach contrary to scripture. The Holy Spirit inspired scripture.

I agree the Holy Spirit can't teach what's contrary to Scripture. So how do I know who has the Holy Spirit and is interpreting Scripture correctly? Cuz everyone here has contradictory views which they all believe are solidly founded on Scripture - the Oneness Pentecostals, the anti-free-will-Calvinists, the "Jesus isn't divine" crowd, the Catholic apologists... We can't just say "study scripture and you'll come to the right answer" because they're all doing that (and so are you and I).

THE church, HIS church is simply the body of believers....

Now YOU ARE the body of Christ, and members individually....1 cor 12

It's not ONE church, or one denomination....Those born from above are HIS church, the body of Christ, regardless of what church building they happen to sit in.

I agree that the Church is a body of believers, but Christ also said He founded an everlasting community - so where can that community be found today? Which church bodies have unbroken history to the Apostles?

His spirit will stay with and like who His spirit chooses.
It's God who chooses such a thing.

Thank you Eve - How can I determine who God has given His Spirit to?

Galatians 5:22-23.

You read the Bible, yes?
Of course! One chapter in the morning and one in the evening, and one Psalm somewhere throughout the day.

Galatians 5:22 But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness and self-control.

Are you saying we can judge if someone has the spirit based on their character?

Simple -- compare their lives with the life God put into Jesus by His Spirit. Matt 3:16. If they are any different from Jesus at all then they have formed their own religious beliefs to regulate their gods.

It seems everyone thinks they're striving to live like Jesus, and they all picture a different Jesus: on the Roman Catholic forum they talk about the importance of honoring Mary and said Jesus was obedient to Mary (so we should be too), but then other posters said "Mary is not important." Other people even say Jesus is fine with homosexuality! So how do I figure out which "Jesus" to compare myself to?

Nothing is so important as to keep right spiritually.

I totally agree! :)
 

e v e

Super Member
Thank you Eve - How can I determine who God has given His Spirit to?

the point is that you meet Him because then.. all the worlds before go away
and a whole new chapter starts with Him...

i cant give you a very positive answer...
because few believe there is a Self to die to.. even among believers!
much less care to die or want to meet Him..
and to receive His Spirit would mean you died to the Self.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
THE church, HIS church is simply the body of believers....
Actually His Church is His body, His temple, same miund same walk as He walks in His same light, He in us and we in Him are one, John 17.

His church isnt about beliefs at all, one can believe anything about God so evident in this very forum, His church is anyone who is like Him by the same SPirit be in you who was in Christ Jesus. And that isnt a belief at all, it is God actually manmifest in us who is His church.
Now YOU ARE the body of Christ, and members individually....1 cor 12
Yes exactly, Christ means Gods anointed, Christ in you is Gods anointing in you. Individuals who is anointed of Him to be like Him, walk as He walks, perfect even as our Father in heaven is perfect. Most see church as some denomination fore beliefs and the laws of.
It's not ONE church, or one denomination....Those born from above are HIS church, the body of Christ, regardless of what church building they happen to sit in.
Those who are born of God do not sit in a pew they are out doing the will of God just as Jesus did.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
It seems everyone thinks they're striving to live like Jesus, and they all picture a different Jesus: on the Roman Catholic forum they talk about the importance of honoring Mary and said Jesus was obedient to Mary (so we should be too), but then other posters said "Mary is not important." Other people even say Jesus is fine with homosexuality! So how do I figure out which "Jesus" to compare myself to?
Simple, dont look toward man for answers in that you will get all kinds of opinions.

Look to Jesus in what he said you will be if you have from God the same as he had from Him. Compare self with him and if anything is different from you and him then seek that what is missing that would seperate you from being like him in the Father.

In HJohn 16:23 Jesus was clear that in that day ye shall ask me noting but go to the Fathger for yourself and He will give it you.

You dont need man to explain anything for you, see ye first the kingdom of God and His righteousness and all these things will be added to you. Jesus didnt need any man teach him God Himself came to that man by His SPirit and opend all of it to Jesus, Matt 3:16 and He will do the same in you if you seek Him instead of mans opinins and interpretations from a religious minds.

The religious minded will come to you with the demand that you believe this and that.

The spiritual minded will come to you with the demand that you square your life with the standards of Jesus.
 

rod.ney

Well-known member
I've been lurking around the forums and came up with a question:

Everyone here claims to have the Holy Spirit. And yet everyone disagrees. So how can I, as an outside observer (neither Catholic nor Protestant/Evangelical) determine who's telling the truth and who really has the Holy Spirit?

I can't be sure that you have the Holy Spirit just because:
  • "Because I study my Bible and pray" - everyone here claims to do that, and they all disagree.
  • "Because I follow what God's word says" - everyone claims to do that too: the Oneness Pentecostals, the Calvinists, the Catholics, the Arminians...

So what objective test am I going to use to separate the true from the deceived?
Original Scripture ( before Translations ) will NEVER contradict one another on the SAME Topics! Those who do not have the Holy Spirit in them as a True Born again Christian ( 1 Cor.6:19 ) will make those scriptures on the SAME Topic contradict one another! So pay attention only to those that have ALL the scriptures on the SAME Topic agree with No contradictions! In John 1:1-18 ; 8:58 & Heb.1:8, they tell us that He ( Jesus Christ ) is Both fully God ( Son , WORD . I AM ) and fully human ( Flesh - John 1:14 - son of man through Mary )! Then some posters say He is just a man and NOT God Also! The Entire Universe was created THROUGH ( John 1:3 ) and BY ( Col.1:16 ) Him! Thus He was not created like angels and we are! He pre-Existed All creation as the WORD ( God ) in John 1:1, with God ( the Father & Holy Spirit )! The ONE GOD of scripture said " US & OUR " in Gen.1:26! The Holy Spirit being lied to in Acts 5:3 is called God in verse 4! Jesus is called " O God " by God the Father in Heb.1:8! Thus it is not wrong to say the ONE GOD of scripture is a TRINITY ( FSHS - Matt.28:19 )! We were made in His Triune Image because as per 1 Thess.5:23 we have a Human ( Body, Soul, & Spirit )! Three in ONE!
 

4Him

Administrator
Staff member
I agree that the Church is a body of believers, but Christ also said He founded an everlasting community - so where can that community be found today? Which church bodies have unbroken history to the Apostles?
The body of Christ is that community. His church has an unbroken history to the apostles. It's NOT hard to open the bible and know and understand the Gospel message.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
I just said that, I don't need you to repeat it for me.


Yes, they do, we gather together with other believers.
Yes' and what one believes is another matter. Christ is not a belief it is the manifestation of God in you, you anointed of God Christ in you. People get beliefs mixed up with the reality of God Who comes and makes His abode in man His temeple no different at all from Him manifesting Himself in Jesus, and in Adam, Abraham, Moses, 120 and the alike and opening up all of Heaven to him. One can believe anything about God that does not mean it is of God. Beliefs are not real they are opinions made into law to govern that belief.

One can believe in God or one can receive from Him His own disposition to walk as He walks in His same light with He in you and you in Him as one, John 17 and be ye therefore perefct even as your Father inheaven is perfect. Not many actually follow in His way do they? Beliefs wont allow. Jesus had a terrable time in not to just get people to believe but to recieve. Believeiing him will lead one to that place where Jesus was clear that in that day ye shall ask me noting but go to the GFather for yourself and He will give it you, justy as He did Jesus in Matt 3:16. To religious folk with beliefs that is blaspheme to think you can recieve from God to be as He is as He demands of us to receieve His perfections.
 

Gary Mac

Well-known member
The body of Christ is that community. His church has an unbroken history to the apostles. It's NOT hard to open the bible and know and understand the Gospel message.
One believes Jesus was God, another believes Jesus was Gods Son, another believes Jesus was Gods messenger, one believe Mary was the mother of God, and the beliefs go on and on. To understand the gospel message? Which one of these gospel messages has it right? As I stated beliefs are not real they are speculations. The only reality is God manifest in you by His SPirit to have His same disposition. And that disposition simply is Love so simple yet so hard for a religious mind to concieve of Him because of beliefs.
 
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