Who is responsible for the Ukrainian deaths since April?

[Thistle]

“According to multiple former senior US officials we spoke with, in April 2022, Russian and Ukrainian negotiators appeared to have tentatively agreed on the outlines of a negotiated interim settlement.”​

​

So why is there still any fighting going on in Ukraine?

"Johnson told Zelensky that even if Ukraine is ready to sign some agreements on guarantees with Putin, Kyiv’s Western backers are not."​

​

So what is happened since then? Well the United States has sent billions and billions and billions of dollars to Ukraine. If you're Zelenskyy what's a few more Ukrainian casualties when there's an opportunity to skim billions of dollars off of US military aid. Russia and Ukraine are the two most corrupt governments in Europe. Ukrainians are dying because people are getting rich.

Report: Russia, Ukraine Tentatively Agreed on Peace Deal in April - News From Antiwar.com

Boris Johnson discouraged the talks

news.antiwar.com

 

[Authentic Nouveau]

America is to blame. using election fraud, Biden was installed and his profile of pernicious whimpiness is exploited by Putin, Zelensky and Chiner.

 

[TeabagSalad]

How much of an idiot does a person have to be to believe Trump's lies about the election?

 

[Thistle]

How much of an idiot does a person have to be to believe Trump's lies about the election?

How much of an idiot does a person have to be to believe the media that has been lying to them constantly; I don't believe they missed a single day for the last six years. But if you try to tell these idiots the truth they will quote you something they read from proven liars which is a whole new level of idiocy.

 

[Faithoverbelief]

America is to blame. using election fraud, Biden was installed and his profile of pernicious whimpiness is exploited by Putin, Zelensky and Chiner.

You should really move to mother Russia so you can support their evil ways.

 

[vibise]

How much of an idiot does a person have to be to believe the media that has been lying to them constantly; I don't believe they missed a single day for the last six years. But if you try to tell these idiots the truth they will quote you something they read from proven liars which is a whole new level of idiocy.

So you think Zelensky should cave to Putin and agree to let him annex even more of his country?

This normalizes and rewards an unjustified invasion, penalizes Ukraine unjustly and moves the Russian border further west.
What is to prevent Putin from trying this again after successful invasions gave him Crimea and eastern Ukraine? Or any other despot for that matter. Maybe this would give China encouragement to attack Taiwan.

At this point Putin is losing support in Russia, with draft-age men fleeing the country or downloading instructions on how to break their own arms.

Putin is now resorting to a sham referendum about annexation that should be thoroughly rejected by all nations.

 

[Thistle]

So you think Zelensky should cave to Putin and agree to let him annex even more of his country?

As the article in "Foreign Affairs" delineated Ukraine and Russia had a peace deal agreed to in principle until Boris Johnson flew in to tell the Ukrainians that not nearly enough Ukrainians have died for it to be acceptable to the powers in the west. So if you come up with a number for how many Ukrainians have to die or be turned into refugees before your thirst for blood is satisfied please let us know, because Ukrainians are dying every day. Because fools like you are towing the line.

This normalizes and rewards an unjustified invasion,

You apparently are entirely ignorant of world history. Strong countries have been imposing their will on relatively weaker countries that are adjacent to them since the beginning of time. They are not however continually being exposed to wholesale slaughter as is the case right now. Pick up a history book, this is normal.

penalizes Ukraine unjustly and moves the Russian border further west.

These are the two most corrupt countries in all of Europe. You speak like you have absolutely no clue about the history of either one of these countries.

What is to prevent Putin from trying this again after successful invasions gave him Crimea and eastern Ukraine?

You mean Putin's Obama administration invasion of Crimea and Putin's Biden administration invasion of Ukraine? Well let's elect Donald Trump and we won't have this problem again. We know this with certainty from experience.

Or any other despot for that matter.

We don't have to tolerate every despot. We have to pay attention to Russia who actually has the power to destroy all life on planet earth however. What are you a child?

Maybe this would give China encouragement to attack Taiwan.

Maybe the fact that we have given all of the ammunition (that we would use to fight the next war) and that we have given all of our strategic oil reserves (that we would use to fight the next war) away in the context of this war that doesn't mean anything to us in Ukraine, might cause China to attack Taiwan. What do you think? What a galactically stupid comment!

At this point Putin is losing support in Russia, with draft-age men fleeing the country or downloading instructions on how to break their own arms.

If you believe that, and it's obvious that you believe 100% of the sunshine that's being pumped up your skirt, then this is just great, grand and glorious!

Putin is now resorting to a sham referendum about annexation that should be thoroughly rejected by all nations.

None of this would happen if Zelenskyy could have pulled the trigger on the piece deal that was agreed to in April.

 

[vibise]

As the article in "Foreign Affairs" delineated Ukraine and Russia had a peace deal agreed to in principle until Boris Johnson flew in to tell the Ukrainians that not nearly enough Ukrainians have died for it to be acceptable to the powers in the west. So if you come up with a number for how many Ukrainians have to die or be turned into refugees before your thirst for blood is satisfied please let us know, because Ukrainians are dying every day. Because fools like you are towing the line.

You apparently are entirely ignorant of world history. Strong countries have been imposing their will on relatively weaker countries that are adjacent to them since the beginning of time. They are not however continually being exposed to wholesale slaughter as is the case right now. Pick up a history book, this is normal.

These are the two most corrupt countries in all of Europe. You speak like you have absolutely no clue about the history of either one of these countries.

You mean Putin's Obama administration invasion of Crimea and Putin's Biden administration invasion of Ukraine? Well let's elect Donald Trump and we won't have this problem again. We know this with certainty from experience.

We don't have to tolerate every despot. We have to pay attention to Russia who actually has the power to destroy all life on planet earth however. What are you a child?

Maybe the fact that we have given all of the ammunition (that we would use to fight the next war) and that we have given all of our strategic oil reserves (that we would use to fight the next war) away in the context of this war that doesn't mean anything to us in Ukraine, might cause China to attack Taiwan. What do you think? What a galactically stupid comment!

If you believe that, and it's obvious that you believe 100% of the sunshine that's being pumped up your skirt, then this is just great, grand and glorious!

None of this would happen if Zelenskyy could have pulled the trigger on the piece deal that was agreed to in April.

I am of Ukrainian heritage. I have close relatives in Ukraine. I have been there.
You cannot claim I have no knowledge of the country, its history, language, culture.

Ukraine is fighting for its autonomy and its people and their heritage. Their morale is high, while Russians are deserting or trying to avoid service.

Biden did not invade Ukraine. He mustered the Europeans to form a coalition to help Ukraine, at their request.

Because Russia has nukes and threatens to use them, we should let it invade other countries and annex their territories? THAT would be galactically stupid.

You seem to be entirely linked in to Russian propaganda sites.

 

[Faithoverbelief]

I am of Ukrainian heritage. I have close relatives in Ukraine. I have been there.
You cannot claim I have no knowledge of the country, its history, language, culture.

Ukraine is fighting for its autonomy and its people and their heritage. Their morale is high, while Russians are deserting or trying to avoid service.

Biden did not invade Ukraine. He mustered the Europeans to form a coalition to help Ukraine, at their request.

You seem to be entirely linked in to Russian propaganda sites.

Very sad that a Reagan conservative ( or at least was) has fallen so far.

 

[Thistle]

I am of Ukrainian heritage. I have close relatives in Ukraine. I have been there.

You can't expect the US to pick up the tab for Ukraine's defense because your family came from there.

You cannot claim I have no knowledge of the country, its history, language, culture.

It certainly can't be detected from anything that you posted in this forum.

Ukraine is fighting for its autonomy and its people and their heritage.

If you knew anything about their history you would know that they hardly have a history of consistent autonomy from Russia.

Their morale is high,

Which is what Joseph Goebbels said about the Germans right up until the Russians moved into Berlin.

while Russians are deserting or trying to avoid service.

There are definitely some people who are in the Russian armed service. If you happen to be wrong in judging Russia's moral you're very unlikely to be shot. A lot of people in Ukraine aren't so lucky.

Biden did not invade Ukraine.

No he simply reversed all the policies that prevented Putin from doing so.

He mustered the Europeans to form a coalition to help Ukraine, at their request.

Do Europeans knew what they wanted formed the coalition and woke Joe Biden up from his nap.

Because Russia has nukes and threatens to use them, we should let it invade other countries and annex their territories?

Did Eisenhower seek to "liberate" Ukraine? How about Kennedy? Did Johnson? How about Nixon he was a real anti-Communist? Did Ford seek to liberate Ukraine? How about Carter did he seek to liberate Ukraine? Did Reagan seek to liberate Ukraine? How about George HW Bush did he seek to liberate Ukraine? Did Bill Clinton seek to liberate Ukraine? How about George W. Bush did he seek to liberate Ukraine? Obama clearly backed a revolution in Ukraine the precipitated invasion. Trump pursued the standard US peace through strength strategy and had no problem. Biden brought in the same thugs from the Obama administration and we're back to Russia invading. Nothing about this could not have been predicted and in fact it was. You're vain attempt to portray this as a long-standing American policy doesn't have a shred of support.

THAT would be galactically stupid.

That would be necessarily prudent. Having a western border at the line between Ukraine and Russia is an unacceptable risk for Russia, so it will not happen even if Russia has to deploy nuclear weapons to prevent it. Forcing them to do what they have told us in advance they're going to do is extremely stupid. So far they've carried out all their threats in Georgia Crimea and Ukraine. We have absolutely gained nothing by counting on Russia to be bluffing which they haven't been yet.

You seem to be entirely linked in to Russian propaganda sites.

That's a totaism. The only way you can disagree with me is you have bought into Russian propaganda. The difficulty is the elitist propaganda that you're tapped into has been wrong about everything consistently.

 

[CrowCross]

I am of Ukrainian heritage. I have close relatives in Ukraine. I have been there.
You cannot claim I have no knowledge of the country, its history, language, culture.

Ukraine is fighting for its autonomy and its people and their heritage. Their morale is high, while Russians are deserting or trying to avoid service.

Biden did not invade Ukraine. He mustered the Europeans to form a coalition to help Ukraine, at their request.

Because Russia has nukes and threatens to use them, we should let it invade other countries and annex their territories? THAT would be galactically stupid.

You seem to be entirely linked in to Russian propaganda sites.

It's not about Biden (the Cabal) invading Ukraine....it's more about the Cabal breaking the Minsk agreement.

It's also about what Soros did 8 years ago.......I wouldn't get my info from CNN or other forced narrative MSM.

Currently the globalist are trying to start WW3....(if we're not in it already)....

Do you know Zelinskyi has Nazi's fighting with him?

You're a few steps behind what's really happening...you owe it to yourself to see the non-narrative side of the coin. Keep in mind I'm not saying Putin is a good guy. Quite the opposite.

 

[vibise]

You can't expect the US to pick up the tab for Ukraine's defense because your family came from there.

It certainly can't be detected from anything that you posted in this forum.

If you knew anything about their history you would know that they hardly have a history of consistent autonomy from Russia.

Which is what Joseph Goebbels said about the Germans right up until the Russians moved into Berlin.

There are definitely some people who are in the Russian armed service. If you happen to be wrong in judging Russia's moral you're very unlikely to be shot. A lot of people in Ukraine aren't so lucky.

No he simply reversed all the policies that prevented Putin from doing so.

Do Europeans knew what they wanted formed the coalition and woke Joe Biden up from his nap.

Did Eisenhower seek to "liberate" Ukraine? How about Kennedy? Did Johnson? How about Nixon he was a real anti-Communist? Did Ford seek to liberate Ukraine? How about Carter did he seek to liberate Ukraine? Did Reagan seek to liberate Ukraine? How about George HW Bush did he seek to liberate Ukraine? Did Bill Clinton seek to liberate Ukraine? How about George W. Bush did he seek to liberate Ukraine? Obama clearly backed a revolution in Ukraine the precipitated invasion. Trump pursued the standard US peace through strength strategy and had no problem. Biden brought in the same thugs from the Obama administration and we're back to Russia invading. Nothing about this could not have been predicted and in fact it was. You're vain attempt to portray this as a long-standing American policy doesn't have a shred of support.

That would be necessarily prudent. Having a western border at the line between Ukraine and Russia is an unacceptable risk for Russia, so it will not happen even if Russia has to deploy nuclear weapons to prevent it. Forcing them to do what they have told us in advance they're going to do is extremely stupid. So far they've carried out all their threats in Georgia Crimea and Ukraine. We have absolutely gained nothing by counting on Russia to be bluffing which they haven't been yet.

That's a totaism. The only way you can disagree with me is you have bought into Russian propaganda. The difficulty is the elitist propaganda that you're tapped into has been wrong about everything consistently.

I mentioned my Ukrainian heritage not to insist that the US pay for their defense, but to indicate that I am not ignorant of that country's history, culture, language etc.

There is clear evidence of problems with morale in the Russian army, and this is substantiated by the fact that Russians called up for service are either trying to flee or trying to break their own arms to avoid conscription.

What policies did Biden reverse?

And of what relevance are the policies of Ike and other past presidents in this situation? None.
As for Trump, his immediate reaction when Putin invaded was to call that move "savvy" and "smart". Had he been POTUS at the time, he would not have stood in the way of this invasion. There would not have been the firm western alliance assisting Ukraine.

So you are arguing we should appease Russia and give them Ukraine, just because they are effective bullies?
Why do you live in the USA instead of Russia?

 

[vibise]

It's not about Biden (the Cabal) invading Ukraine....it's more about the Cabal breaking the Minsk agreement.

It's also about what Soros did 8 years ago.......I wouldn't get my info from CNN or other forced narrative MSM.

Currently the globalist are trying to start WW3....(if we're not in it already)....

Do you know Zelinskyi has Nazi's fighting with him?

You're a few steps behind what's really happening...you owe it to yourself to see the non-narrative side of the coin. Keep in mind I'm not saying Putin is a good guy. Quite the opposite.

And Trump has Nazis supporting him! In large numbers. Okey-dokey, right?

You are sounding like another CARM poster who has bought into Russian propaganda about Ukraine.
If you are not saying Putin is a good guy, why do you accept his explanations for his actions? And paint Ukraine as the evil side?

 

[Thistle]

I mentioned my Ukrainian heritage not to insist that the US pay for their defense, but to indicate that I am not ignorant of that country's history, culture, language etc.

If you know it then why are you saying exactly the opposite of the truth in this thread. Ukraine does not have a history of consistent autonomy from Russia over the course of history.

There is clear evidence of problems with morale in the Russian army,

US Army is not meeting its' recruiting goals. Are you going to suggest that the US Army is not capable of doing what we need to US Army to do? You are wildly overstating the problems that Russia is having.

and this is substantiated by the fact that Russians called up for service are either trying to flee or trying to break their own arms to avoid conscription.

US Army's recruiting difficulties are substantiated by the associated press. "The Army could miss its recruitment goal for 2022 by 25%, Army Gen. Joseph Martin, vice chief of staff for the Army, told The Associated Press." [link]

What policies did Biden reverse?

All the policies that prevented Russia from talking about invading Ukraine.

And of what relevance are the policies of Ike and other past presidents in this situation?

These other presidents didn't have Russia invading Ukraine.

As for Trump,

That's "President Trump" to you.

his immediate reaction when Putin invaded was to call that move "savvy" and "smart".

You seem to be ignorant of the fact that if any other invasion of Russia had started at the border of Ukraine it would've overrun Moscow and Russia would have fallen in every other case. Russia cannot permit the next invasion of Russia to start from the border with Ukraine.

What cannot happen will not happen, so between us and that outcome is a necessary Thermo nuclear war. Our life will go on much as it is always gone on no matter what happens to Ukraine. Russia will cease to exist however, if they do not prevail, in their view. That means they will use all necessary means and they can wipe out all life on planet earth.

Had he been POTUS at the time,

You are missing the point! He was president and Putin behaved.

he would not have stood in the way of this invasion.

He was the reason Putin didn't invade.

There would not have been the firm western alliance assisting Ukraine.

Because there would be no invasion. All those dead Ukrainians would be alive today!

So you are arguing we should appease Russia

Anyone can look at my comments above and see that I've done no such thing.

and give them Ukraine, just because they are effective bullies?

Ukraine has never been a member of the EU and they have never been a member of NATO and we weren't giving Ukraine to Russia because of either one of these facts and any prior point in history.

Why do you live in the USA instead of Russia?

Why do you live in the United States rather than Ukraine?

 

[CrowCross]

And Trump has Nazis supporting him! In large numbers. Okey-dokey, right?

You are sounding like another CARM poster who has bought into Russian propaganda about Ukraine.
If you are not saying Putin is a good guy, why do you accept his explanations for his actions? And paint Ukraine as the evil side?

Get real.....you still don't know about Ukraine do you? Believe me, I don't buy into Russian propaganda nor the blah, blah, blah your CNN is feeding us.