Who is the boss?

Truther

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3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.


It looks like to me God and Christ are not co-equal after all.

More like there is one God who is the boss over an individual man.

Just like Christ is our Lord and God, God is his(Jesus') Lord and God.
 
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.
It looks like to me God and Christ are not co-equal after all.
More like there is one God who is the boss over an individual man.
Just like Christ is our Lord and God, God is his(Jesus') Lord and God.
AV Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

How do you understand the impact of this verse, to your understanding stated in your post ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
 

Truther

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AV Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.

How do you understand the impact of this verse, to your understanding stated in your post ???

Yours in Christ, Michael
Thank you for your question Michael.

Here is what happened...

Jesus was/is an individual human person with a God.

Jesus had the Holy Ghost on earth per Luke 4:1.

The Holy Ghost left Jesus on the cross.

The Holy Ghost resurrected his spirit and made it an omnipresent quickening(human) spirit.

Since his spirit was made omnipresent, every bit of his God fully indwelled his new spirit body.

Since then God has done nothing without doing it THROUGH Jesus.

This is called the Col 2:9 effect on Jesus' body.

This also qualifies Jesus to be the everlasting Father/mighty God by default.
 
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.


It looks like to me God and Christ are not co-equal after all.

More like there is one God who is the boss over an individual man.

Just like Christ is our Lord and God, God is his(Jesus') Lord and God.
Equivocation? Are you familiar with this term? Unless Trinitarians were using equal in co-equal to mean equal in roll, your point is irrelevant. BTW, we never said Jesus and the Father are co-equal in roll. We say they are co-equal in ontology, not economics. Therefore, being a head is simply irrelevant to our position or why we believe our position. Stop equivocating equality in roll to equality in ontology.

God Bless
 

Truther

Member
Equivocation? Are you familiar with this term? Unless Trinitarians were using equal in co-equal to mean equal in roll, your point is irrelevant. BTW, we never said Jesus and the Father are co-equal in roll. We say they are co-equal in ontology, not economics. Therefore, being a head is simply irrelevant to our position or why we believe our position. Stop equivocating equality in roll to equality in ontology.

God Bless
You just debunked Jesus' boss...


3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.


AKA....."God is Jesus' head, but not really".
 
You just debunked Jesus' boss...


3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.


AKA....."God is Jesus' head, but not really".
No, I just expressed your fundamental ignorance of Trinitarianism. Are men and women ontologically equal? Of course, they are both human. Yet, the man is the head of the women. Likewise, the Father and the Son are ontologically equal in both being the one God while the Father is head over the Son.

God Bless
 

Truther

Member
No, I just expressed your fundamental ignorance of Trinitarianism. Are men and women ontologically equal? Of course, they are both human. Yet, the man is the head of the women. Likewise, the Father and the Son are ontologically equal in both being the one God while the Father is head over the Son.

God Bless
Does the verse say the head of God is God?

Or, the head of Christ is God?

If you think Paul was saying Christ is God, then you pick the former.
 
Does the verse say the head of God is God? Or, the head of Christ is God?

The head of Christ is God, and that fact that you changed your argument like this proves you know I made a crushing point to your equality argument. I'm sure you'll forget about my argument in about a month and repeat your silly equivocation between ontological and economic equality, but then again, that's the only way to pretend your position is possible.

If you think Paul was saying Christ is God, then you pick the former.
If you had a meaningful argument, you won't be making silly statements like this. The verse says "the head of Christ is God", and Paul says in some two dozen places that Jesus is God. Why won't you make serious comments?

God Bless
 

Truther

Member
The head of Christ is God, and that fact that you changed your argument like this proves you know I made a crushing point to your equality argument. I'm sure you'll forget about my argument in about a month and repeat your silly equivocation between ontological and economic equality, but then again, that's the only way to pretend your position is possible.

If you had a meaningful argument, you won't be making silly statements like this. The verse says
"the head of Christ is God", and Paul says in some two dozen places that Jesus is God. Why won't you make serious comments?

God Bless
So, you deny the co-equal doctrine and believe one person Paul called "God", said a man named Jesus is under the authority of this person called "God" by Paul(Paul says Christ is not God by describing Christ's God).

Therefore the head of a man called "Christ" by Paul, is a person called "God".

You need to white this verse out of your Bible, Baptist.
 
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.


It looks like to me God and Christ are not co-equal after all.

More like there is one God who is the boss over an individual man.

Just like Christ is our Lord and God, God is his(Jesus') Lord and God.
You're assuming that The Father, Son and Spirit each have their own essence(ousia). God has 1 essence. You are also assuming that Christ submits to God ontologically, when the text clearly supports an economic submission.

"If the Father and Son share the divine nature in the same way that a man and his wife share human nature… you’re already a tritheist. Don’t be a tritheist."
 

Truther

Member
You're assuming that The Father, Son and Spirit each have their own essence(ousia). God has 1 essence. You are also assuming that Christ submits to God ontologically, when the text clearly supports an economic submission.

"If the Father and Son share the divine nature in the same way that a man and his wife share human nature… you’re already a tritheist. Don’t be a tritheist."
I am not a tritheist, but teach only 1 God.

Here you see 4 entities....


3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.


3 human and one divine entity.

That's it.
 
So, you deny the co-equal doctrine and believe one person Paul called "God", said a man named Jesus is under the authority of this person called "God" by Paul(Paul says Christ is not God by describing Christ's God).
Therefore the head of a man called "Christ" by Paul, is a person called "God".
You need to white this verse out of your Bible, Baptist.

The response of one who isn't listening. Why are you repeating your silly equivocation between ontological and economic equality?

God Bless
 

Truther

Member
The response of one who isn't listening. Why are you repeating your silly equivocation between ontological and economic equality?

God Bless
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.


These are 4 entities mentioned, not economies.

We have named 3 humans and a God.

Noticed the "Christ", human, is NOT called God in the verse.

Paul ate your lunch here.
 
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

These are 4 entities mentioned, not economies.

The response of one who isn't listening. Why would anyone think I'm talking about economies like the economy of France vs England? Ontological equality relates to equality with respect to being. Joe and Frank are ontologically equal in that they are both human. In this sense, The Father and the Son are ontologically equal in that they are both God. Economic equality relates the roles one takes in the world. Joe is the head of Frank because Joe is Frank's boss. In this sense, the Father and the Son are not economically equal because the Father is the head of Christ. Now that I've explained this again, when are you going to stop repeating your silly equivocation between ontological and economic equality?

We have named 3 humans and a God.

Noticed the "Christ", human, is NOT called God in the verse.

Paul ate your lunch here.
I think you need to get your eyes checked; Christ is not called human either in this verse. Therefore, you proved nothing but your inability to make logical or Biblical arguments.

God Bless
 

Truther

Member
The response of one who isn't listening. Why would anyone think I'm talking about economies like the economy of France vs England? Ontological equality relates to equality with respect to being. Joe and Frank are ontologically equal in that they are both human. In this sense, The Father and the Son are ontologically equal in that they are both God. Economic equality relates the roles one takes in the world. Joe is the head of Frank because Joe is Frank's boss. In this sense, the Father and the Son are not economically equal because the Father is the head of Christ. Now that I've explained this again, when are you going to stop repeating your silly equivocation between ontological and economic equality?


I think you need to get your eyes checked; Christ is not called human either in this verse. Therefore, you proved nothing but your inability to make logical or Biblical arguments.

God Bless
I think you need to get your eyes checked; Christ is not called human either in this verse.

3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of GOD is God?
 
I think you need to get your eyes checked; Christ is not called human either in this verse.
3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of GOD is God?
"Christ is not called human"- Utterly irrelevant. Scripture repeatedly, constantly calls Christ human: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" 1 Tim 2:5. BTW, Paul said that after Jesus' resurrection. Even recognizing this fact, nothing at all in my argument relates to Christ being man. Therefore, your response is utterly meaningless as a refutation against my position. Why can't you at least interact with arguments I actually present? Is it because you know I'm being rational and that you don't have a meaningful response at all? This is the only conclusion a rational person can come to given this response.

God Bless
 

Truther

Member
"Christ is not called human"- Utterly irrelevant. Scripture repeatedly, constantly calls Christ human: "For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;" 1 Tim 2:5. BTW, Paul said that after Jesus' resurrection. Even recognizing this fact, nothing at all in my argument relates to Christ being man. Therefore, your response is utterly meaningless as a refutation against my position. Why can't you at least interact with arguments I actually present? Is it because you know I'm being rational and that you don't have a meaningful response at all? This is the only conclusion a rational person can come to given this response.

God Bless
It says the head of Christ(human) is God, not the head of God(Spirit) is God(Spirit), or the head of God is Himself.

AKA...God is the head of Christ, the man and the woman.
 
It says the head of Christ(human) is God, not the head of God(Spirit) is God(Spirit), or the head of God is Himself.
AKA..God is the head of Christ, the man and the woman.

Yes, the head of Christ is God. Therefore, God and Christ are not economically equal. The verse says absolutely nothing about whether or not they are ontologically equal. It says nothing about Christ being God, or not being God. Therefore, referencing this verse in a discussion of ontological equality is silly. You are simply not being intellectually serious enough about what the text says as to have a meaningful conversation.

God Bless
 

Truther

Member
Yes, the head of Christ is God. Therefore, God and Christ are not economically equal. The verse says absolutely nothing about whether or not they are ontologically equal. It says nothing about Christ being God, or not being God. Therefore, referencing this verse in a discussion of ontological equality is silly. You are simply not being intellectually serious enough about what the text says as to have a meaningful conversation.

God Bless
All the verse says is there is an earthly pecking order of 3 individuals with a lone God at the top of the other 3.

Here is how the pecking order is arranged in heaven(before it reaches the man and woman)...


12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.


This is how the head of the man, Christ Jesus' God, affiliates with him in heaven.

Now, do you know who God in the OP verse is yet?
 
All the verse says is there is an earthly pecking order of 3 individuals with a lone God at the top of the other 3.
Yes, and it says nothing whatsoever about the ontological status of the persons listed. Why are you making such irrelevant points?
Here is how the pecking order is arranged in heaven(before it reaches the man and woman)...
12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.
This is how the head of the man, Christ Jesus' God, affiliates with him in heaven.
Now, do you know who God in the OP verse is yet?
Yes, God the Father. And? If you were being intellectually serious, you would have been interacting with the fact that Trinitarians generally read God as in reference to God the Father. So for the Trinitarian, the statement "the head of Christ is God" means the 1st persons of the Trinity is the head of the 2nd person of the Trinity. No problems here; such has always been a part of Trinitarian theology. So, do you have a meaningful critique, or are you going to continue to express your ignorace and hubris?

God Bless
 
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