Who is the God of.... Jesus Christ?

I don't think there is that "maybe", since I did read what he said here after his resurrection:

John 20:17 (...) ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’

I can not invent a Jesus. I must know the real Jesus Christ Bible shows me. If I imagine a Christ or believe in another one somebody teaches and not the same in the Bible, what sense would that make?
 
I don't think there is that "maybe", since I did read what he said here after his resurrection:

John 20:17 (...) ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father and to my God and your God.’

I can not invent a Jesus. I must know the real Jesus Christ Bible shows me. If I imagine a Christ or believe in another one somebody teaches and not the same in the Bible, what sense would that make?

So what you're saying is you reject all the Bible passages which teach the deity of Christ.

Good to know.
 
That is your opinion, and obviously it is far from reality, since you just read what Jesus said and you are the one who is denying it.

Do you think anyone in heaven is Trinitarian?

Let me show you what the creatures of heaven say to Jesus there:

Apoc. 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

You probably did not know that, but as you can read: nobody in heaven is trinitarian. Neither am I..
 
That is your opinion, and obviously it is far from reality, since you just read what Jesus said and you are the one who is denying it.

I'm not denying it at all.

Your "proof-text" does NOT say, "Jesus is not God".
Your "proof-text" does NOT say, "God is not Triune".
Your "proof-text" DOES say that the Father is God, and we BELIEVE that!

Meanwhile, YOU are denying:

Is. 9:6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given;
and the government shall be upon his shoulder,
and his name shall be called Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God,
Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

John 8:58
Jesus said to them, “Truly, truly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I am.”

John 20:28 Thomas answered [Jesus], “My Lord and my God!

Rom. 9:5
To them belong the patriarchs, and from their race, according to the flesh, is the Christ, who is God over all, blessed forever. Amen.

Phil. 2:5 Have this mind among yourselves, which is yours in Christ Jesus, 6 who, though he was in the form of God, did not count equality with God a thing to be grasped,

Col. 2:9 For in [Christ] the whole fullness of deity dwells bodily,

2Th. 1:12 so that the name of our Lord Jesus may be glorified in you, and you in him, according to the grace of our God and Lord Jesus Christ.

Titus 2:13
waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,

Heb. 1:8
But of the Son he says, “Your throne, O God, is forever and ever,
the scepter of uprightness is the scepter of your kingdom.

2Pet. 1:1 Simeon Peter, a servant and apostle of Jesus Christ, To those who have obtained aa faith of equal standing with ours by the righteousness of our God and Savior Jesus Christ:


And here's how the earliest Christians understood those passages:

1Clem. 16:2 The scepter of the majesty of God, even our Lord Jesus Christ, came not in the pomp of arrogance or of pride, though He might have done so, but in lowliness of mind, according as the Holy Spirit spake concerning Him. (Clement of Rome)

2Clem. 1:1 Brethren, we ought so to think of Jesus Christ, as of God, as of the Judge of quick and dead. (Clement of Rome)

Eph. 1:0 Ignatius, also called Theophorus, ... forever united and chosen, through real suffering, by the will of the Father and Jesus Christ our God. (Ignatius)

Eph. 17:2 Why do we not all become wise, having received knowledge of God, that is, Jesus Christ! Why do we perish in folly, failing to appreciate the gift which the Lord has sent us in truth! (Ignatius)

Eph. 18:2 The fact is, our God Jesus Christ was conceived by Mary according to God’s dispensation of the seed of David, it is true, but also of the Holy Spirit. He was born and was baptized, that by His Passion He might consecrate the water. (Ignatius)

Eph. 19:3 This was the reason why every form of magic began to be destroyed, every malignant spell to be broken, ignorance to be dethroned, an ancient empire to be overthrown—God was making His appearance in human form to mold the newness of eternal life! (Ignatius)

Tral. 7:1 So, then, beware of such! And you will do so if you are not puffed up and cling inseparably to God Jesus Christ, to the bishop, and to the precepts of the Apostles. (Ignatius)

Rom. 1:0 Ignatius, also called Theophorus, to the Church that has found mercy in the transcendent Majesty of the Most High Father and of Jesus Christ, His only Son; the church by the will of Him who willed all things that exist, beloved and illuminated through the faith and love of Jesus Christ our God; ... Heartiest good wishes for unimpaired joy in Jesus Christ our God, to those who are united in flesh... (Ignatius)

Rom. 3:3 Nothing that is seen is good. Our God Jesus Christ certainly is the more clearly seen now that He is in the Father. (Ignatius)

Smyr. 1:1 I extol Jesus Christ, the God who has granted you such wisdom. (Ignatius)

Poly. 8:3 I say good-bye to you all forever in Jesus Christ our God, through whom I wish you to be united with God and under His watchful eye. Farewell in the Lord! (Ignatius)

Phili. 12:2 ... who shall believe on our Lord and God Jesus Christ and on His Father that raised him from the dead. (Polycarp)

“For if you had understood what has been written by the prophets, you would not have denied that He was God, Son of the only, unbegotten, unutterable God.” (Justin Martyr, Dialogue with Trypho, 126)

"who also, being the first-begotten Word of God, is even God. And of old He appeared in the shape of fire and in the likeness of an angel ...". (Justin Martyr, First Apology, 63)

He that hung up the earth in space was Himself hanged up; He that fixed the heavens was fixed with nails; He that bore up the earth was borne up on a tree; the Lord of all was subjected to ignominy in a naked body—God put to death! the King of Israel slain with Israel’s right hand!” (Melito of Sardis, Part V)

“... in order that to Christ Jesus, our Lord, and God, and Saviour, and King, according to the will of the invisible Father,” (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 1.10.1)

Christ Himself, therefore, together with the Father, is the God of the living, who spake to Moses, and who was also manifested to the fathers.” (Irenaeus, Against Heresies, 4.5.2)


Sorry, but I refuse to reject Scripture, simply because YOU don't like it.

Do you think anyone in heaven is Trinitarian?

Only God.

Let me show you what the creatures of heaven say:

Apoc. 5:9 And they sing a new song, saying: “You are worthy to take the scroll and open its seals, for you were slaughtered and with your blood you bought people for God out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation, 10 and you made them to be a kingdom and priests to our God, and they are to rule as kings over the earth.”

You probably did not know that, but as you can see: nobody in heaven is trinitarian. Neither I am.

Oh, the sheer arrogance of you!
You think I've never read the book of Revelation.

Only God is Triune. I have no idea where you got the bizarre (straw-man) notion that humans allegedly become "Triune" when they die. (We don't.)
 
I can see you are trying to elaborate an argument to deny what Jesus said after being resurrected. You just read it: his Father and his God is the Father and the God of his brothers (John 20:17). If you continue trying to elaborate that argument, you want to contradict Jesus, not me. You can learn a lot more when you learn from Jesus. Check what he said to the Samaritan woman in John 4 and continue learning from him.
 
It's simple.
Those who don't want to believe Jesus, attempt circumventing scripture.
Jesus said his father is the only true God- they just don't want to accept that since their church says otherwise...
Jesus has two natures in union. He is both man and God.

Jesus is God the Father's means to make God explainable and relatable to humans...
Jesus said that to see him was to be seeing the Father for that reason.

Why do we need the humanity of Christ to know the Father? If the Father were all alone? God would transcend our senses and we would be no more conscious of what God is like than you are able to hear a radio broadcast.

The following passage declares that Jesus exegetes the Father to mankind like a good pastor will exegete the Greek texts. Texts that most can not decipher, nor understand otherwise.

No man has ever seen God at any time; the only unique Son, or the only begotten God,
Who is in the bosom [in the intimate presence] of the Father, He has declared Him [He
has revealed Him and brought Him out where He can be seen; He has interpreted Him
and He has made Him known].

John 1:18

Jesus is the Father's translator to men and angels.


grace and peace.....
 
Polypersonaltheist means more than one person, not more than one God. More than one God is just polytheist.
God is so simple to figure out? Do you think He could fool you? If you choose a certain path, He will. Not intentionally either.

Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time?
Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’?" John 14:9

The see Jesus is to see the Father.

He did not say, to see the Son is to see the Son.

grace and peace.....
 
God is so simple to figure out? Do you think He could fool you? If you choose a certain path, He will. Not intentionally either.

The see Jesus is to see the Father. He did not say, to see the Son is to see the Son.

You think the Father looks like a Jewish man with a beard?
 
You think the Father looks like a Jewish man with a beard?

God can reveal about Himself what He wants men to know about Him through someone looking like that. But?

Jesus does not look that way any longer.

Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh;
even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now
we know Him in this way no longer." 2 Corinthians 5:16​




........
 
God can reveal about Himself what He wants men to know about Him through someone looking like that. But?

Jesus does not look that way any longer.

Therefore from now on we recognize no one according to the flesh;
even though we have known Christ according to the flesh, yet now
we know Him in this way no longer." 2 Corinthians 5:16​




........

I agree. The resurrection body is not made of dust like Adam as Saint Paul teaches in 1 Corinthians 15.
 
I agree. The resurrection body is not made of dust like Adam as Saint Paul teaches in 1 Corinthians 15.
The dust like Adam's body is doomed to perish.

The elements of whatever heaven constitutes will be what our bodies will be from. Everlasting.

We talk about this stuff like we are part of club... But, what we talk about will for the first time make us feel like we know what to be real means.

We look out our window. Time changes everything. What is manifested one day can no longer be the next. In eternity we will never be tempted to be bored. Yet, nothing that is being will change.
 
Polypersonaltheist means more than one person, not more than one God. More than one God is just polytheist.
God the Father = Deity and nothing else.

God the Son = Deity and a Soul in union - Expressing God to men and angels, by means of His Soul.

Its God's Soul that is used as the mediator to translate God into our way of thinking for us.


The dual natures of the Son of God (known as the Lord God of Israel) was always manifesting as two natures in union!


'You will eat the old supply and clear out the old because of the new. Moreover, I will
make My dwelling among you, and My soul will not reject you.'I will also walk among
you and be your God, and you shall be My people." Lev 26:10-12



And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst and to serve Jehovah, so that
his soul became impatient because of the trouble of Israel." Judges 10:16



Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one, and anyone loving
violence his soul certainly hates." Psalm 11:5



“Bring no more futile sacrifices; Incense is an abomination to Me. The New Moons, the Sabbaths,
and the calling of assemblies— I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred meeting. Your New Moons
and your appointed feasts My soul hates; They are a trouble to Me, I am weary of bearing them.. Isaiah 1:13-14​


God is "spirit".

Not, "soul."

Soul speaks of humanity! Two natures for the Lord God of Israel = the Lord Jesus Christ now in bodily form.


Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in
the spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is Spirit, and
his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”
John 4:23-24


Those OT passages showed us the two natures in union being manifested as with the Lord Jehovah of Israel! No body. Just Soul and Deity.

Then.. That same Soul of the Lord God? He denied Himself of His rights of manifesting himself as God in power. And, with only His Soul?
His Soul entered the sinless body provided by Mary, to make Himself become as a man. The man Jesus Christ. The Second Adam.


grace and peace.......
 
God the Father = Deity and nothing else.

God the Son = Deity and a Soul in union - Expressing God to men and angels, by means of His Soul.

Its God's Soul that is used as the mediator to translate God into our way of thinking for us.


The dual natures of the Son of God (known as the Lord God of Israel) was always manifesting as two natures in union!
'You will eat the old supply and clear out the old because of the new. Moreover, I will
make My dwelling among you, and My soul will not reject you.'I will also walk among
you and be your God, and you shall be My people." Lev 26:10-12​
And they began to remove the foreign gods from their midst and to serve Jehovah, so that
his soul became impatient because of the trouble of Israel." Judges 10:16​
Jehovah himself examines the righteous one as well as the wicked one, and anyone loving
violence his soul certainly hates." Psalm 11:5​
“Bring no more futile sacrifices; Incense is an abomination to Me. The New Moons, the Sabbaths,
and the calling of assemblies— I cannot endure iniquity and the sacred meeting. Your New Moons
and your appointed feasts My soul hates; They are a trouble to Me, I am weary of bearing them.. Isaiah 1:13-14​


God is "spirit".

Not, "soul."

Soul speaks of humanity! Two natures for the Lord God of Israel = the Lord Jesus Christ now in bodily form.


Yet a time is coming and has now come when the true worshipers will worship the Father in
the spirit and in truth, for they are the kind of worshipers the Father seeks. God is Spirit, and
his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth.”
John 4:23-24


Those OT passages showed us the two natures in union being manifested as with the Lord Jehovah of Israel! No body. Just Soul and Deity.

Then.. That same Soul of the Lord God? He denied Himself of His rights of manifesting himself as God in power. And, with only His Soul?
His Soul entered the sinless body provided by Mary, to make Himself become as a man. The man Jesus Christ. The Second Adam.


grace and peace.......

The Hebrew word rendered "soul" has various meanings. Halot Hebrew lexicon says at Lv 26:11 it means "personality" like at Gn 27:4. There the NRSV renders it "I" as in "that I may bless you" and at Lv 26:11 "I shall not abhor you"

It's a Hebrew idiom, not an ontological statement.
 
The Hebrew word rendered "soul" has various meanings. Halot Hebrew lexicon says at Lv 26:11 it means "personality" like at Gn 27:4. There the NRSV renders it "I" as in "that I may bless you" and at Lv 26:11 "I shall not abhor you"

It's a Hebrew idiom, not an ontological statement.
It "can" have various meanings. Yet? It says "soul." The problems scholars have had with it, is exactly what I have been telling you. God is "spirit." Soul is another essence. My pastor who was a Greek and Hebrew scholar said it was an anthropopathism... "attributing to God traits of which he does not possess."

Yet? It has been right there in front of us all along. The two natures of the Lord. The Lord God of Israel, whom we learn later is now the Lord Jesus Christ. The King of Israel future.
 
It "can" have various meanings. Yet? It says "soul." The problems scholars have had with it, is exactly what I have been telling you. God is "spirit." Soul is another essence. My pastor who was a Greek and Hebrew scholar said it was an anthropopathism... "attributing to God traits of which he does not possess."

Yet? It has been right there in front of us all along. The two natures of the Lord. The Lord God of Israel, whom we learn later is now the Lord Jesus Christ. The King of Israel future.

"It" says soul? That's your argument? The Hebrew lexicon tells us what it means in the verses you cited. It's not ontological and therefore not a "nature."

It could also be an anthropomorphism, and it still would not be a nature.

In later years once Jews had become hellenized some of them might have held different views, but not when the Bible was written.
 
"It" says soul? That's your argument? The Hebrew lexicon tells us what it means in the verses you cited. It's not ontological and therefore not a "nature."

It could also be an anthropomorphism, and it still would not be a nature.

In later years once Jews had become hellenized some of them might have held different views, but not when the Bible was written.
Again.. Knowing that God is "spirit?" Many scholars would automatically assume that a soul could not relate to God's nature. All sorts of reasons were given to explain those passages. The one you just gave is such an example.

Did Jesus have a soul?

How was that soul being before Abraham was born? Many assumed he spoke of his Deity, but according to Philippians 2:6-8, Jesus was not allowed to function as Deity at any time, until after he finished dying for our sins. Its one reason why Satan was tempting Jesus to turn the stones into bread. For if Jesus did do that? He would have returned to being Deity and instantly been disqualified to die as a man in our place. That's why Satan tried it.

Theological constipation is a major reason for us losing our "salting" (Divine preservation) ability for our nation.

Rigidity does not automatically equate to faithfulness. Though, rigid dogmatism can be needed when defending a truth that has been clarified and establish ... Commonly accepted errors have become a part of our thinking. Tithing in the church age comes to mind as an example of unquestioned tradition. Errors are here to be corrected. Not to be embellished and cherished. Or, we die for a lack of knowledge.


grace and peace....
 
Roger- it was JESUS praying to his God, and he said "ONLY".
There's no wiggle-room to add Two Others!

You sound like I did, when faced with the same facts! I believed the Trinity while knowing NOTHING about the Bible!
Now this is interesting Revelator? I'm going to use the same sort of "inverted" logic you just did when you quoted Jesus using the word "ONLY."

The Apostle John said at John 1:3, "ALL things (does not "all" mean without exception) came into being by Him/Jesus Christ, and "APART" from Him (or WITHOUT Him "NOTHING" has come into being that has come into being." Since this is true, obviously like you said, "There's no wiggle-room to add Two Others!" Really!

Isaiah 44:24, "Thus says the Lord, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, "I, the Lord, am the maker of "ALL" things, (here again "all" means without exception), Stretching out the heavens BY MYSELF, And spreading out the earth "ALL" alone." (Again "all" means without exception).

Would you mind explaining to all the readers here how you would reconcile the "dilemma" you just put yourself in? And as a side note, I know of no verse or verses in the Bible that says one is to believe in the Trinity. We are required to know who is Jesus Christ and to believe in Him. Just read John 3:16. Does not this make sense Revelator?

IN GOD THE SON,
james
 
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