Who is "the Lord" in 2 Corinthians 3:17?

Y

Yahchristian

Well-known member
Photine said:
Who is the Lord in 2 Cor 3:17.
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johnny guitar said:
The Holy Spirit.
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TRINITARIANS...

Which Divine Person does "the Lord" in 2 Corinthians 3:17 refer to?

2 Corinthians 3:17... Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

We have one Trinitarian's answer, but I would like to know what the rest of you believe.

I believe there is only one Divine Person, Yahweh, so "the Lord" in 2 Corinthians 3:17 refers to a form of Yahweh.

Isaiah 44:24 LSB... Thus says Yahweh, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, Yahweh, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone,

Philippians 2:6 KJV... Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Here is a summary of what I believe...

Yahweh is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. Yahweh is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. Yahweh in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, Yahweh in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal Yahweh is called God the Father.

Here is an more detailed overview of what I believe...

For this creation, Yahweh (the only one who transcends all creation) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans for his glory where he would reign as a human himself. The Scriptures describe how Yahweh would accomplish his plan. In an instant, eternal Yahweh (called God the Father) created the supernatural and spacetime of this universe and also became immanent in the universe as spirit (called the Spirit of God) and as a human with a glorious body (called the Son of God). God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Son of God (whose name is Jesus). But whereas Yahweh created a spirit and soul for each of us, Yahweh himself became the spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
 
TRINITARIANS...

Which Divine Person(s) does "the Lord" in 2 Corinthians 3:17 refer to?

2 Corinthians 3:17... Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

A) the first Person of the Trinity
B) the second Person of the Trinity
C) the third Person of the Trinity
D) the first and second Persons of the Trinity
E) the first and third Persons of the Trinity
F) the second and third Persons of the Trinity
G) all three Persons of the Trinity
H) not sure which Person(s)
I) no Person, just the Substance of the Trinity

@aeg4971, I see you are currently online. Perhaps you can answer the question.
 
Yahchristian said:
TRINITARIANS...

Which Divine Person does "the Lord" in 2 Corinthians 3:17 refer to?

2 Corinthians 3:17... Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

We have one Trinitarian's answer, but I would like to know what the rest of you believe.

I believe there is only one Divine Person, Yahweh, so "the Lord" in 2 Corinthians 3:17 refers to a form of Yahweh.

Isaiah 44:24 LSB... Thus says Yahweh, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, Yahweh, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone,

Philippians 2:6 KJV... Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Here is a summary of what I believe...

Yahweh is spirit and is the only one who is eternal. Yahweh is also in the universe as spirit and as a human. Yahweh in the universe as spirit is called the Spirit of God, Yahweh in the universe as a human is called the Son of God, and eternal Yahweh is called God the Father.

Here is an more detailed overview of what I believe...

For this creation, Yahweh (the only one who transcends all creation) determined to create a universe with a kingdom of redeemed humans for his glory where he would reign as a human himself. The Scriptures describe how Yahweh would accomplish his plan. In an instant, eternal Yahweh (called God the Father) created the supernatural and spacetime of this universe and also became immanent in the universe as spirit (called the Spirit of God) and as a human with a glorious body (called the Son of God). God the Father then created all things within the universe by the power of the Spirit of God commanded by the Son of God (whose name is Jesus). But whereas Yahweh created a spirit and soul for each of us, Yahweh himself became the spirit and soul of Jesus. At his conception, Jesus' glorious body was changed to a mortal body to be made like us so he could make reconciliation for our sins. At his resurrection, Jesus' mortal body was changed back to a glorious body and he will also give each of his elect a glorious body when he returns to reign in his kingdom forever.
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The context tells you quite clearly who the Lord is.

14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because the veil is removed in Christ. 15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; 16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit.

And again......

14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because the veil is removed in Christ. 15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; 16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit. Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we received mercy, we do not lose heart, 2 but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord...

And again...

14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because the veil is removed in Christ. 15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; 16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit. Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we received mercy, we do not lose heart, 2 but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord...

It is quite plain the Lord of verse 3:17 is Christ but many choose to blind themselves from the truth for the sake of serving their creedal idol.

14 But their minds were hardened; for until this very day at the reading of the old covenant the same veil remains unlifted, because the veil is removed in Christ. 15 But to this day whenever Moses is read, a veil lies over their heart; 16 but whenever a person turns to the Lord, the veil is taken away. 17 Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom. 18 But we all, with unveiled face, beholding as in a mirror the glory of the Lord, are being transformed into the same image from glory to glory, just as from the Lord, the Spirit. Therefore, since we have this ministry, as we received mercy, we do not lose heart, 2 but we have renounced the things hidden because of shame, not walking in craftiness or adulterating the word of God, but by the manifestation of truth commending ourselves to every man’s conscience in the sight of God. 3 And even if our gospel is veiled, it is veiled to those who are perishing, 4 in whose case the god of this world has blinded the minds of the unbelieving so that they might not see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God. 5 For we do not preach ourselves but Christ Jesus as Lord...
 
Even if you manage to convince trins that Jesus is in view, they'll just say it's not referring to the Holy Spirit when it calls Jesus the Spirit.
 
Yahchristian said:
TRINITARIANS...

Which Divine Person(s) does "the Lord" in 2 Corinthians 3:17 refer to?

2 Corinthians 3:17... Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

A) the first Person of the Trinity
B) the second Person of the Trinity
C) the third Person of the Trinity
D) the first and second Persons of the Trinity
E) the first and third Persons of the Trinity
F) the second and third Persons of the Trinity
G) all three Persons of the Trinity
H) not sure which Person(s)
I) no Person, just the Substance of the Trinity

@aeg4971, I see you are currently online. Perhaps you can answer the question.
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C). Case closed.
 
OldShepherd said:
If you were posting in good faith you would have quoted the vs. and explained what you believe about it. As it is you are just trying to start an argument.
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Okay, I am quoting the verse and explaining what I believe about it...

2 Corinthians 3:17... Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

I believe there is only one Divine Person, Yahweh, so "the Lord" in 2 Corinthians 3:17 refers to a form of Yahweh.

Isaiah 44:24 LSB... Thus says Yahweh, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, Yahweh, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone,

Philippians 2:6 KJV... Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:


Now can you please tell us what YOU believe about the verse...

Which Divine Person does "the Lord" in 2 Corinthians 3:17 refer to?
 
Yahchristian said:
Okay, I am quoting the verse and explaining what I believe about it...

2 Corinthians 3:17... Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

I believe there is only one Divine Person, Yahweh, so "the Lord" in 2 Corinthians 3:17 refers to a form of Yahweh.
Click to expand...

The context demonstrates clearly that it refers to the Lord Jesus.

His God is somebody else, "the God of our Lord."

Yahchristian said:
Isaiah 44:24 LSB... Thus says Yahweh, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, Yahweh, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone,
Click to expand...

That would be our Lord's God.

Yahchristian said:
Philippians 2:6 KJV... Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:


Now can you please tell us what YOU believe about the verse...

Which Divine Person does "the Lord" in 2 Corinthians 3:17 refer to?
Click to expand...
 
Yahchristian said:
Okay, I am quoting the verse and explaining what I believe about it...

2 Corinthians 3:17... Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.

I believe there is only one Divine Person, Yahweh, so "the Lord" in 2 Corinthians 3:17 refers to a form of Yahweh.

Isaiah 44:24 LSB... Thus says Yahweh, your Redeemer, and the one who formed you from the womb, “I, Yahweh, am the maker of all things, Stretching out the heavens by Myself And spreading out the earth all alone,

Philippians 2:6 KJV... Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Now can you please tell us what YOU believe about the verse...

Which Divine Person does "the Lord" in 2 Corinthians 3:17 refer to?
Click to expand...
@Yahchristian
When someone quotes a verse to support a particular point they should carefully consider the context. Read a few vss, before and after. You didn't do that.
2 Corinthians 3:13-17​
(13) And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:​
(14) But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.​
(15) But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.​
(16) Nevertheless when it [Israel vs. 13] shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.​
(17) Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.​
There is a veil on the eyes of Israel. The veil is done away in Christ. When Israel turns to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away. The Lord is that spirit. Get it yet?
"The veil is done away in Christ" equals "turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away."
Concerning Philippians 2:6 you are quoting a faulty translation
NIV Philp 2:6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; ​
The Committee on Bible Translation worked at updating the New International Version of the Bible to be published in 2011​
In it's notes under "Progress in Scholarship" it discusses the following change:​
When the NIV was first translated, the meaning of the rare Greek word αρπαγμον /harpagmos, rendered ‟something to be grasped,” [robbery KJV] in Philippians 2:6 was uncertain. But further study has shown that the word refers to something that a person has in their possession but chooses not to use to their own advantage. The updated NIV reflects this new information, making clear that Jesus really was equal with God when he determined to become a human for our sake: ‟[Christ Jesus], being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage.”​
See full translators notes at: Bible Gateway NIV Translator’s Notes​
The New International Version (Grand Rapids, MI: Zondervan, 2011), Php 2:6.​

​
 
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OldShepherd said:
When the NIV was first translated, the meaning of the rare Greek word αρπαγμον /harpagmos, rendered ‟something to be grasped,” in Philippians 2:6 was uncertain. But further study has shown that the word refers to something that a person has in their possession but chooses not to use to their own advantage. The updated NIV reflects this new information, making clear that Jesus really was equal with God when he determined to become a human for our sake: ‟[Christ Jesus], being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage.”​
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Go and check their alleged evidence. Pure garbage.

Don't take my word for it. Go and check for yourself what they are basing this claim upon.
 
OldShepherd said:
@Yahchristian
When someone quotes a verse to support a particular point they should carefully consider the context. Read a few vss, before and after. You didn't do that.
2 Corinthians 3:13-17​
(13) And not as Moses, which put a vail over his face, that the children of Israel could not stedfastly look to the end of that which is abolished:​
(14) But their minds were blinded: for until this day remaineth the same vail untaken away in the reading of the old testament; which vail is done away in Christ.​
(15) But even unto this day, when Moses is read, the vail is upon their heart.​
(16) Nevertheless when it [Israel vs. 13] shall turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away.​
(17) Now the Lord is that Spirit: and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is liberty.​
There is a veil on the eyes of Israel. The veil is done away in Christ. When Israel turns to the Lord, the veil shall be taken away. The Lord is that spirit. Get it yet?
"The veil is done away in Christ" equals "turn to the Lord, the vail shall be taken away."
Click to expand...

So then the Lord Jesus is the Spirit.
 
Our Lord's God said:
So then the Lord Jesus is the Spirit.
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Acts 16:6-7
6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,
7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.

Acts 5:3-4
3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

Jesus = the Spirit = the Holy Spirit = God
 
Our Lord's God said:
Go and check their alleged evidence. Pure garbage.

Don't take my word for it. Go and check for yourself what they are basing this claim upon.
Click to expand...
You don't know what you are talking about. I would not take your word that the sky is blue without checking it. I'm certain you have not checked any credible, verifiable, historical, grammatical or lexical evidence. I doubt you would know how to go about finding it. What is it exactly you think I should check for myself? I have read the entire article. I only quoted a paragraph or two.
 
OldShepherd said:
You don't know what you are talking about. I would not take your word that the sky is blue without checking it.
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Then go and check their so-called evidence. They have nothing but their imaginations.

OldShepherd said:
I'm certain you have not checked any credible, verifiable, historical, grammatical or lexical evidence. I doubt you would know how to go about finding it. What is it exactly you think I should check for myself? I have read the entire article. I only quoted a paragraph or two.
Click to expand...

What did they base this claim upon? Go and find out.
 
Our Lord's God said:
Only in an extremely confused mind.
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Nope.

Photine said:
Acts 16:6-7
6 Now when they had gone throughout Phrygia and the region of Galatia, and were forbidden of the Holy Ghost to preach the word in Asia,
7 After they were come to Mysia, they assayed to go into Bithynia: but the Spirit suffered them not.

Acts 5:3-4
3 Then Peter said, “Ananias, how is it that Satan has so filled your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for yourself some of the money you received for the land? 4 Didn’t it belong to you before it was sold? And after it was sold, wasn’t the money at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have not lied just to human beings but to God.”

Jesus = the Spirit = the Holy Spirit = God
Click to expand...
 
OT and NT harmonize.

2 Sam 23:2
“The Spirit of the Lord spoke through me; his word was on my tongue.

Lam 4:20
The breath of our nostrils, the anointed of the Lord, was taken in their pits, of whom we said, Under his shadow we shall live among the heathen.

Ps 33:6
By the word of the Lord were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of his mouth.

Ez 1:3
The word of the Lord came expressly unto Ezekiel the priest, the son of Buzi, in the land of the Chaldeans by the river Chebar; and the hand of the Lord was there upon him.

Isa 66:2
Has not my hand made all these things, and so they came into being?” declares the LORD. “These are the ones I look on with favor: those who are humble and contrite in spirit, and who tremble at my word.

The Hand = the Spirit (btw)
 
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