who is this man?

akay

Member
the Quran describes how Mary, the mother of Jesus, was approached by an angel from God, bringing her tidings she had never imagined: that she will give birth to a son, a Messiah, who will be of the righteous and will be a prophet of God, calling the Children of Israel (the Israelites) to the straight path of God.

“(And mention) when the angels said, ‘O Mary, indeed God gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary – distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near (to God). He will speak to the people in the cradle and in maturity and will be of the righteous.” (Quran 3:45-46)

Naturally, for Mary, this news was both strange and seemingly impossible.

“She said, ‘My Lord, how will I have a child when no man has touched me?’ (The angel) said, “Such is God; He creates what He wills. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, ‘Be,’ and it is. And He will teach him writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel.” (Quran 3:47-4

The very nature of Jesus is so special, that God compares the uniqueness of His creation to that of the first man and prophet, Adam.

“Indeed, the example of Jesus to God is like that of Adam. He created him from dust; then He said to him, ‘Be,’ and he was.” (Quran 3:59)
Jesus and His Miracles

Jesus became one of the greatest prophets of God, and was sent to the Children of Israel in order to confirm the teachings of his predecessor, the Prophet Moses. His birth was a miracle, and, like all prophets of God, he was granted several miracles. He approached his people, telling them:

“And (make him) a messenger to the Children of Israel, (who will say), ‘Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord’ in that I design for you from the clay (that which is) like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of God. And I cure the blind (from birth) and the leper, and I give life to the dead – by permission of God. And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers. And (I have come) confirming what was before me of the Torah and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you. And I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear God and obey me. Indeed, God is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is the straight path.” (Quran 3:49-51)
Jesus’s Followers

The Quran continues the story of Jesus by relating several incidents of his life and his disciples.

“But when Jesus felt (persistence in) disbelief from them, he said, ‘Who are my supporters for (the cause of) God?’ The disciples said,” We are supporters for God. We have believed in God and testify that we are Muslims (submitting to Him.) Our Lord, we have believed in what You revealed and have followed the messenger (i.e., Jesus), so register us among the witnesses (to truth).” (Quran 3:52-53)

In another incident, after which an entire surah (chapter) of the Quran is named, the disciples of Jesus asked him for another miracle.

“(And remember) when the disciples said, ‘O Jesus, Son of Mary, can your Lord send down to us a table (spread with food) from the heaven?’ (Jesus) said, ‘Fear God, if you should be believers.’ They said, ‘We wish to eat from it and let our hearts be reassured and know that you have been truthful to us and be among its witnesses.’ Said Jesus, the son of Mary, ‘O God, our Lord, send down to us a table (spread with food) from the heaven to be for us a festival for the first of us and the last of us and a sign from You. And provide for us, and You are the best of providers.’” (Quran 5:112-114)

God sent them the table they had asked for, but not without a warning.

“God said, ‘Indeed, I will sent it down to you, but whoever disbelieves afterwards from among you – then indeed will I punish him with a punishment by which I have not punished anyone among the worlds.’” (Quran 5:115)
The End of the Story?

The story of Jesus never really ends in the Quran, as we are told that Jesus was not killed, but that rather, God raised His beloved prophet up to Him.

“(Mention) when God said, ‘O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify (i.e., free) you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you (in submission to God alone) superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ. And as for those who disbelieved, I will punish them with a severe punishment in this world and the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers.’ But as for those who believed and did righteous deeds, He will give them in full their rewards, and God does not like the wrongdoers.” (Quran 3:55-57)

The Quran also points out that Jesus was neither killed nor crucified. Speaking of the Children of Israel, God faults their accusations against Mary as well as their claim that they killed Jesus.

“And (We cursed them) for their disbelief and their saying against Mary a great slander. And (for) their saying, ‘Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of God.’ And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but (another) was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. Rather, God raised him to Himself. And ever is God Exalted in Might and Wise.” (Quran 4:156-15

The Quran confirms that Jesus was raised up by God, and the Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, reassured us that Jesus will be sent down to earth once again before the Day of Judgment. In a saying of Prophet Muhammad, narrated by Abu Hurairah, the Prophet said:

“By the One in Whose hand is my self, definitely the son of Maryam will soon descend among you as a just judge, and he will break the cross, kill the pig, and abolish the jizyah (tribute), and wealth will be so abundant that no one will accept it, until a single prostration will be better than the world and everything in it.” (Saheeh Al-Bukhari)


The Deen Show: The Top 10 Reasons Why Jesus isn't God by Brother Joshua Evans
 

akay

Member
the story of Moses peace be upon him and especially the Exodus from Egypt of the Hebrews. concerning the historical time-frame occupied by the Exodus in the history of the pharaohs, I have concluded that the most likely is the theory which makes Merneptah, Ramesses II’s successor, the pharaoh of the Exodus.

evidence leading us to situate Moses in the history of the pharaohs. Moses was probably born during the reign of Ramesses II. Biblical data. are therefore of considerable historical value in the story of Moses. A medical study of the mummy of Merneptah has yielded further useful information on the possible causes of this pharaoh’s death. The fact that we possess the mummy of this pharaoh is one of paramount importance. The Bible records that pharaoh was engulfed in the sea, but does not give any details as to what subsequently became of his corpse. The Qur’an, in chapter Yoonus, notes that the body of the pharaoh would be saved from the waters:
“Today I will save your dead body so that you may be a sign for those who come after you.” Qur’an, 10:92
A medical examination of this mummy, has, shown that the body could not have stayed in the water for long, because it does not show signs of deterioration due to prolonged submersion. Here again, the comparison between the narration in the Qur’an and the data provided by modern knowledge does not give rise to the slightest objection from a scientific point of view.
Such points of agreement are characteristic of the Qur’anic revelation.

The main causes which brought about such differences as arise from the comparison between the Holy Scriptures and modern knowledge is known to modern scholars. The Old Testament constitutes a collection of literary works produced in the course of roughly nine centuries and which has undergone many alterations. The part played by men in the actual composition of the texts of the Bible is quite considerable.

The Qur’anic revelation, on the other hand, has a history which is radically different. As we have already seen, from the moment it was first commto humans, it was learnt by heart and written down during Muhammad’s own lifetime. It is thanks to this fact that the Qur’an does not pose any problem of authenticity.

A totally objective examination of the Qur’an, in the light of modern knowledge, leads us to recognize the agreement between the two, as has already been noted on repeated occasions throughout this presentation.

It makes us deem it quite unthinkable for a man of Muhammad’s time to have been the author of such statements, on account of the state of knowledge in his day. Such considerations are part of what gives the Qur’anic revelation its unique place among religious and non-religious texts, and forces the impartial scientist to admit his inability to provide an explanation based solely upon materialistic reasoning.

Such facts as I have had the pleasure of exposing to you here, appear to represent a genuine challenge to human explanation leaving only one alternative: the Qur’an is undoubtedly a revelation from allah.
ركن المتحدثين: الأخ منصور يكتسح الكاهن الكاثوليكى فى النقاش. الجزء الثالث
كلام الله، هل هو القرآن أم الإنجيل؟|The Qur'an Or The Bible, Which Is God's Word
 

Biblican

Well-known member
the story of Moses peace be upon him and especially the Exodus from Egypt of the Hebrews. concerning the historical time-frame occupied by the Exodus in the history of the pharaohs, I have concluded that the most likely is the theory which makes Merneptah, Ramesses II’s successor, the pharaoh of the Exodus.

evidence leading us to situate Moses in the history of the pharaohs. Moses was probably born during the reign of Ramesses II. Biblical data. are therefore of considerable historical value in the story of Moses. A medical study of the mummy of Merneptah has yielded further useful information on the possible causes of this pharaoh’s death. The fact that we possess the mummy of this pharaoh is one of paramount importance. The Bible records that pharaoh was engulfed in the sea, but does not give any details as to what subsequently became of his corpse. The Qur’an, in chapter Yoonus, notes that the body of the pharaoh would be saved from the waters:
“Today I will save your dead body so that you may be a sign for those who come after you.” Qur’an, 10:92
A medical examination of this mummy, has, shown that the body could not have stayed in the water for long, because it does not show signs of deterioration due to prolonged submersion. Here again, the comparison between the narration in the Qur’an and the data provided by modern knowledge does not give rise to the slightest objection from a scientific point of view.
Such points of agreement are characteristic of the Qur’anic revelation.

The main causes which brought about such differences as arise from the comparison between the Holy Scriptures and modern knowledge is known to modern scholars. The Old Testament constitutes a collection of literary works produced in the course of roughly nine centuries and which has undergone many alterations. The part played by men in the actual composition of the texts of the Bible is quite considerable.

The Qur’anic revelation, on the other hand, has a history which is radically different. As we have already seen, from the moment it was first commto humans, it was learnt by heart and written down during Muhammad’s own lifetime. It is thanks to this fact that the Qur’an does not pose any problem of authenticity.

A totally objective examination of the Qur’an, in the light of modern knowledge, leads us to recognize the agreement between the two, as has already been noted on repeated occasions throughout this presentation.

It makes us deem it quite unthinkable for a man of Muhammad’s time to have been the author of such statements, on account of the state of knowledge in his day. Such considerations are part of what gives the Qur’anic revelation its unique place among religious and non-religious texts, and forces the impartial scientist to admit his inability to provide an explanation based solely upon materialistic reasoning.

Such facts as I have had the pleasure of exposing to you here, appear to represent a genuine challenge to human explanation leaving only one alternative: the Qur’an is undoubtedly a revelation from allah.
ركن المتحدثين: الأخ منصور يكتسح الكاهن الكاثوليكى فى النقاش. الجزء الثالث
كلام الله، هل هو القرآن أم الإنجيل؟|The Qur'an Or The Bible, Which Is God's Word
Actually the majority of the Koran was taken and adapted from the Bible.
 

Biblican

Well-known member
the Quran describes how Mary, the mother of Jesus, was approached by an angel from God, bringing her tidings she had never imagined: that she will give birth to a son, a Messiah, who will be of the righteous and will be a prophet of God, calling the Children of Israel (the Israelites) to the straight path of God.

“(And mention) when the angels said, ‘O Mary, indeed God gives you good tidings of a word from Him, whose name will be the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary – distinguished in this world and the Hereafter and among those brought near (to God). He will speak to the people in the cradle and in maturity and will be of the righteous.” (Quran 3:45-46)

Naturally, for Mary, this news was both strange and seemingly impossible.

“She said, ‘My Lord, how will I have a child when no man has touched me?’ (The angel) said, “Such is God; He creates what He wills. When He decrees a matter, He only says to it, ‘Be,’ and it is. And He will teach him writing and wisdom and the Torah and the Gospel.” (Quran 3:47-4

The very nature of Jesus is so special, that God compares the uniqueness of His creation to that of the first man and prophet, Adam.

“Indeed, the example of Jesus to God is like that of Adam. He created him from dust; then He said to him, ‘Be,’ and he was.” (Quran 3:59)
Jesus and His Miracles

Jesus became one of the greatest prophets of God, and was sent to the Children of Israel in order to confirm the teachings of his predecessor, the Prophet Moses. His birth was a miracle, and, like all prophets of God, he was granted several miracles. He approached his people, telling them:

“And (make him) a messenger to the Children of Israel, (who will say), ‘Indeed I have come to you with a sign from your Lord’ in that I design for you from the clay (that which is) like the form of a bird, then I breathe into it and it becomes a bird by permission of God. And I cure the blind (from birth) and the leper, and I give life to the dead – by permission of God. And I inform you of what you eat and what you store in your houses. Indeed in that is a sign for you, if you are believers. And (I have come) confirming what was before me of the Torah and to make lawful for you some of what was forbidden to you. And I have come to you with a sign from your Lord, so fear God and obey me. Indeed, God is my Lord and your Lord, so worship Him. That is the straight path.” (Quran 3:49-51)
Jesus’s Followers

The Quran continues the story of Jesus by relating several incidents of his life and his disciples.

“But when Jesus felt (persistence in) disbelief from them, he said, ‘Who are my supporters for (the cause of) God?’ The disciples said,” We are supporters for God. We have believed in God and testify that we are Muslims (submitting to Him.) Our Lord, we have believed in what You revealed and have followed the messenger (i.e., Jesus), so register us among the witnesses (to truth).” (Quran 3:52-53)

In another incident, after which an entire surah (chapter) of the Quran is named, the disciples of Jesus asked him for another miracle.

“(And remember) when the disciples said, ‘O Jesus, Son of Mary, can your Lord send down to us a table (spread with food) from the heaven?’ (Jesus) said, ‘Fear God, if you should be believers.’ They said, ‘We wish to eat from it and let our hearts be reassured and know that you have been truthful to us and be among its witnesses.’ Said Jesus, the son of Mary, ‘O God, our Lord, send down to us a table (spread with food) from the heaven to be for us a festival for the first of us and the last of us and a sign from You. And provide for us, and You are the best of providers.’” (Quran 5:112-114)

God sent them the table they had asked for, but not without a warning.

“God said, ‘Indeed, I will sent it down to you, but whoever disbelieves afterwards from among you – then indeed will I punish him with a punishment by which I have not punished anyone among the worlds.’” (Quran 5:115)
The End of the Story?

The story of Jesus never really ends in the Quran, as we are told that Jesus was not killed, but that rather, God raised His beloved prophet up to Him.

“(Mention) when God said, ‘O Jesus, indeed I will take you and raise you to Myself and purify (i.e., free) you from those who disbelieve and make those who follow you (in submission to God alone) superior to those who disbelieve until the Day of Resurrection. Then to Me is your return, and I will judge between you concerning that in which you used to differ. And as for those who disbelieved, I will punish them with a severe punishment in this world and the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers.’ But as for those who believed and did righteous deeds, He will give them in full their rewards, and God does not like the wrongdoers.” (Quran 3:55-57)

The Quran also points out that Jesus was neither killed nor crucified. Speaking of the Children of Israel, God faults their accusations against Mary as well as their claim that they killed Jesus.

“And (We cursed them) for their disbelief and their saying against Mary a great slander. And (for) their saying, ‘Indeed, we have killed the Messiah, Jesus, the son of Mary, the messenger of God.’ And they did not kill him, nor did they crucify him; but (another) was made to resemble him to them. And indeed, those who differ over it are in doubt about it. They have no knowledge of it except the following of assumption. And they did not kill him, for certain. Rather, God raised him to Himself. And ever is God Exalted in Might and Wise.” (Quran 4:156-15

The Quran confirms that Jesus was raised up by God, and the Prophet Muhammad, may the mercy and blessings of God be upon him, reassured us that Jesus will be sent down to earth once again before the Day of Judgment. In a saying of Prophet Muhammad, narrated by Abu Hurairah, the Prophet said:

“By the One in Whose hand is my self, definitely the son of Maryam will soon descend among you as a just judge, and he will break the cross, kill the pig, and abolish the jizyah (tribute), and wealth will be so abundant that no one will accept it, until a single prostration will be better than the world and everything in it.” (Saheeh Al-Bukhari)


The Deen Show: The Top 10 Reasons Why Jesus isn't God by Brother Joshua Evans
The Koran places Jesus on a much higher level than any prophet including Muhamad. He called Jesus "Ruh Allah" which means a spirit from God or God's Spirit. Jesus' Spirit is God's Holy Spirit which makes Him God, but He is not the Father, they are two distinct souls that are unified by one spirit. Jesus was crucified that is an historical fact recorded by secular historians. But because Jesus' spirit is God's Spirit He could not die, only His body. That is the image mentioned in the Koran. Muhammad called Jesus the messiah. In order for Him to be the Messiah He would have to fulfill the prophecy in Isaiah 53, which He did. His soul would be made an offering for sin. Jesus also fulfilled all the many foreshadows, typologies and prophecies concerning the messiah in the Old Testament. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth and the life, no one comes to the Father except by Me - John 14:6. That is because no one can live in God's presence or have eternal life unless their souls have been unified with God's Holy Spirit. God has placed the Spirit in the blood of Jesus which was made available through His death. Only those who believe He is the messiah, repent of their sins and receive Him as Lord and Savior can receive the the Holy Spirit. Again, that is why Jesus said He is the only way. No one can have eternal life without the Holy Spirit and God has ordained that Jesus is the only one through which we can receive it. He is the fulfillment of the plan of redemption that God ordained in Eden. We are shown in Genesis that Adam and Eve had to be covered by an act of God. This shows us that man is incapable of covering their own sins, forgiveness can be obtained only through what God has ordained. This is what the Old Testament is about, it chronicles that plan of redemption cumulating in Jesus' sacrifice which again is prophesied in Isaiah 53.
 

akay

Member
. WAS THE QUR'AN COPIED FROM THE BIBLE? - DR ZAKIR NAIK

Do I quote the Koran from the Bible? Ahmed Deedat shocks Shroosh YouTube




1-



All prophets are equal and all are brothers
The Qur’an did not say that the Prophet Jesus, peace be upon him, is greater than the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him




all prophets are brothers worshiping one God



Both Muhammad and Jesus are prophets in Islam.

In Islam we are not allowed to say that one prophet is better than the other.

The difference is that prophet Muhammed was sent to humanity as a whole while Jesus was sent to some specific people as stated in Quran and bible.

We are instructed to love all prophets regardless of their ethnic background, because all of them were Muslims(submitted to God) and Muslims are closer to each other than non Muslims regardless of blood ties.

Our religion preserves the dignity of the Prophets and Messengers, holds them in high esteem and makes believing in all of them one of the pillars of faith; the one who does not believe even in one of the Prophets is not a Muslim.



2-


The legend of Isaiah 53 and the great forgery


First: The text does not mention the name of Christ, peace be upon him, from near or far!

The speech, then, will be through the descriptions mentioned in this text, so we have to examine these descriptions and compare them with the true biography of Christ to know whether Isaiah 53 is talking about him or not!!


Second: If we look at the descriptions that came in this text, we will find that they are not descriptions of Christ, peace be upon him, according to what came in the New Testament!



3-






Christ is not God

Also, Jesus is not equal to God

He is a prophet of God


17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

An explicit confession from Jesus that he has a God



The Bible Says that God is Greater than Jesus



John 14:28 “My Father is greater than I.”



John 10:29 “My father is greater than all.”



Jesus can not be God if God is greater than him. The Christian belief that the Father and son are equal is in direct contrast to the clear words from Jesus.



. Jesus Never Instructed His Disciples to Worship Himself or the Holy Ghost, but God and God Only



Luke 11:2 “When you pray, say Our Father which art in heaven.”



John 16:23 “In that day, you shall ask me nothing. Whatsoever you ask of the Father in my name.”



John 4:23 “The hour cometh and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth; for the Father seeketh such to worship him.”



If Jesus was God, he would have sought worship for himself. Since he didn’t, instead he sought worship for God in the heavens, therefore, he was not God.







4-




is the blood sacrifice. Simple understanding and forgiveness does not require blood sacrifice, torture or death in order to forgive

Think about the implications of a requirement for a blood sacrifice in moral terms.

That is an arbitrary condition. Do you mean to suggest that an omnipotent being cannot forgive transgressions without blood being spilled in atonement?

Do you require a blood sacrifice, something to be killed in order to forgive those who have wronged you?

God sacrificing himself to himself in order to forgive makes no more sense than taking another's life as a condition for forgiveness.
Isn't it supposed to be unconditional love? There is your contradiction.



''For God so loved the world that he 'gave his only begotten son''
This is a fake text
Christ was not crucified and will not bear your sins

Because every human being is responsible for his actions, as Christ said


Scientists prove that Jesus was not crucified

How Can you Prove Jesus was not Crucified, Dr. Zakir Naik Question and Answer





5-




Does John 14:6 prove divinity of Christ? Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him





The verse states that Jesus was the "WAY".What else would we expect a prophet of God to say except "I am the 'way' to God's mercy"? That is his job. That is what a prophet does. It is why God chose him in the first place; in order to guide to the mercy of God.So John 14 verse 6 doesnot prove divinity of Christ.







Why Jesus said: I am the way and the truth and the life



 

Biblican

Well-known member
. WAS THE QUR'AN COPIED FROM THE BIBLE? - DR ZAKIR NAIK

Do I quote the Koran from the Bible? Ahmed Deedat shocks Shroosh YouTube




1-



All prophets are equal and all are brothers
The Qur’an did not say that the Prophet Jesus, peace be upon him, is greater than the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him




all prophets are brothers worshiping one God



Both Muhammad and Jesus are prophets in Islam.

In Islam we are not allowed to say that one prophet is better than the other.

The difference is that prophet Muhammed was sent to humanity as a whole while Jesus was sent to some specific people as stated in Quran and bible.

We are instructed to love all prophets regardless of their ethnic background, because all of them were Muslims(submitted to God) and Muslims are closer to each other than non Muslims regardless of blood ties.

Our religion preserves the dignity of the Prophets and Messengers, holds them in high esteem and makes believing in all of them one of the pillars of faith; the one who does not believe even in one of the Prophets is not a Muslim.



2-


The legend of Isaiah 53 and the great forgery


First: The text does not mention the name of Christ, peace be upon him, from near or far!

The speech, then, will be through the descriptions mentioned in this text, so we have to examine these descriptions and compare them with the true biography of Christ to know whether Isaiah 53 is talking about him or not!!


Second: If we look at the descriptions that came in this text, we will find that they are not descriptions of Christ, peace be upon him, according to what came in the New Testament!



3-






Christ is not God

Also, Jesus is not equal to God

He is a prophet of God


17 Jesus said, “Do not hold on to me, for I have not yet ascended to the Father. Go instead to my brothers and tell them, ‘I am ascending to my Father and your Father, to my God and your God.’”

An explicit confession from Jesus that he has a God



The Bible Says that God is Greater than Jesus



John 14:28 “My Father is greater than I.”



John 10:29 “My father is greater than all.”



Jesus can not be God if God is greater than him. The Christian belief that the Father and son are equal is in direct contrast to the clear words from Jesus.



. Jesus Never Instructed His Disciples to Worship Himself or the Holy Ghost, but God and God Only



Luke 11:2 “When you pray, say Our Father which art in heaven.”



John 16:23 “In that day, you shall ask me nothing. Whatsoever you ask of the Father in my name.”



John 4:23 “The hour cometh and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth; for the Father seeketh such to worship him.”



If Jesus was God, he would have sought worship for himself. Since he didn’t, instead he sought worship for God in the heavens, therefore, he was not God.







4-




is the blood sacrifice. Simple understanding and forgiveness does not require blood sacrifice, torture or death in order to forgive

Think about the implications of a requirement for a blood sacrifice in moral terms.

That is an arbitrary condition. Do you mean to suggest that an omnipotent being cannot forgive transgressions without blood being spilled in atonement?

Do you require a blood sacrifice, something to be killed in order to forgive those who have wronged you?

God sacrificing himself to himself in order to forgive makes no more sense than taking another's life as a condition for forgiveness.
Isn't it supposed to be unconditional love? There is your contradiction.



''For God so loved the world that he 'gave his only begotten son''
This is a fake text
Christ was not crucified and will not bear your sins

Because every human being is responsible for his actions, as Christ said


Scientists prove that Jesus was not crucified

How Can you Prove Jesus was not Crucified, Dr. Zakir Naik Question and Answer





5-




Does John 14:6 prove divinity of Christ? Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.If you really know me, you will know my Father as well. From now on, you do know him and have seen him





The verse states that Jesus was the "WAY".What else would we expect a prophet of God to say except "I am the 'way' to God's mercy"? That is his job. That is what a prophet does. It is why God chose him in the first place; in order to guide to the mercy of God.So John 14 verse 6 doesnot prove divinity of Christ.







Why Jesus said: I am the way and the truth and the life



The Koran does place Jesus on a higher level than Muhammad. Muhammad highly revered Jesus above himself and called Him "Ruh Allah" Spirit of God" which Muhamad did not attribute to himself. You need to check the texts for yourself and not rely on what your Imans tell you.

Jesus is not God the Father, they are two distinct persons and God's person is above Jesus, but they are equal in Spirit. Jesus said, "As the Father has life in Himself, so He has given to the Son to have life in Himself" - John 5:26. To have life in oneself is a quality that only God can have. As a man, Jesus has a body, a soul and a spirit. The spirit is that which gives life to the soul and body. Adam is also called the son of God in Genesis because his life originated from God, but his life source is the breath, not the Ruach, God's Holy Spirit. Jesus' spirit is the Holy Spirit and that is what makes Him one with God, they are the same Spirit. God put His Spirit in the blood of Jesus and when we receive Him He imparts the Holy Spirit to us because no one can have eternal life or enter heaven without our souls being unified with the Holy Spirit. That is the purpose of Jesus' sacrifice, to remove our sins so we can receive God's Spirit.

Jesus' sacrifice is prophesied from Genesis to Isaiah 53. The entire Old Testament is about that sacrifice. An animal had to die in Eden for God to make the skins that clothed Adam and Eve, because their own efforts to cover themselves with leaves was not acceptable with God. That first sacrifice began the typology that continues throughout the Old Testament. That is why God established the tabernacle sacrifices to be a foreshadow of the last sacrifice that Jesus completed. He fulfilled all those prophecies and became our High Priest replacing the High Priests role in the tabernacle and temple services.
Jesus said He was the way Truth and the Life, because His Spirit is the Holy Spirit and no one can have eternal life except by Him because only He has God's Spirit in His blood. Jesus makes it possible to have God's mercy because He is the fulfillment of God's plan of redemption that He established in Eden. "The life is in the blood and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls, it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul " Leviticus 17:11. God has never changed this requirement for the forgiveness of sins.
Isa 53:10 Yet it pleased the LORD to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of the LORD shall prosper in his hand.
Isa 53:11 He shall see of the travail of his soul, and shall be satisfied: by his knowledge shall my righteous servant justify many; for he shall bear their iniquities.
Isa 53:12 Therefore will I divide him a portion with the great, and he shall divide the spoil with the strong; because he hath poured out his soul unto death: and he was numbered with the transgressors; and he bare the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.
This is the purpose of the Messiah, and Muhammad recognized that Jesus is the Messiah.
The Koran says that they crucified a likeness of Him. That is a reference to His body, the image. They could not kill the Spirit and soul which is what Muhammad meant.
Jesus was sent to the Jews first for the purpose of giving them the Gospel so they could spread it to the Gentiles. Jesus came to die for the sins of the world. Jesus fulfilled the prophecies that the Messiah would gather the Gentiles, and be rejected by His own people, which Jesus fulfilled.
If Muslims regard Jesus as a prophet, then why are Christians being slaughtered by Muslims for believing that He is the Messiah as Muhammad said?
It is an historic fact that Jesus was crucified and is recorded by secular historians.
Lucia c. 120- after c. 180 - Referred to Jesus as a crucified sophis (philosopher).
Tacitus c.56 - c. 120 - quote - "Christus, from whom the name had its origin, suffered the extreme penalty...at the hands of our procurator, Pontus Pilate."
Josephus - c. 37 - c. 100 - quote - "At the time there appeared Jesus, a wise man, for he was a doer of amazing deeds. When Pilate condemned him to the cross, the leading men among us, having accused him, those who loved him did not cease to do so."

Again, Jesus is the fulfillment of the plan of redemption that God established from the beginning of creation. No one can have their sins forgiven unless they receive God's plan of redemption that He established and fulfilled in the Messiah Jesus. I encourage you to study the Old Testament foreshadows, prophecies and typologies that verify Jesus as the Messiah and God's Son who was begotten by God in heaven prior to His incarnation.
 

akay

Member
The Prophet Moses, peace be upon him, was mentioned several times in the Qur’an
More than the Prophet Muhammad and the Prophet Jesus Christ, peace be upon them
Islam does not differentiate between the prophets, they are all brothers, and one message is that God is one, not three, and not a human being



If the criterion for the differentiation in the Noble Qur’an was the number of times the name “knowledge” was mentioned, then “Satan” would have been higher than many of the prophets, as the number of times this name
appeared close to seventy times, which exceeds the number of times that of names Some messengers and prophets!


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Christ was not crucified







Your scripture in which you believe says that the disciples (followers of the Messiah) did not see the crucifixion; rather on that day they were fleeing and hiding from their enemies, so how could they be eyewitnesses to something that they did not see?







We will quote from your scripture and the words of your scholars words to prove that:







Mark says:







“Some women were watching from a distance. Among them were Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James the younger and of Joseph, and Salome.







In Galilee these women had followed him and cared for his needs. Many other women who had come up with him to Jerusalem were also there”







Mark 15:40-41.







Matthew says something similar (Matthew 27:55-56).



















So, according to what your scripture says, none of the disciples of the Messiah were present at the crucifixion at all; rather those who were present were some of the women, although the Gospels differ as to their number and identity.















This is not applicable in the case of the crucifixion, as we have explained above. None of the followers of the Messiah were present at the crucifixion, apart from a few women, and some reports in the Gospels even doubt that they were there. This doubt comes from Christian scholars themselves.







If no one was present at the crucifixion except a small number of women, who stood some distance away and watched from afar, this did not give them the opportunity to verify or be certain who the person was who was being crucified. Moreover, some of his enemies crucified the look-alike, thinking it was the Messiah. Therefore it is not valid to say, after that, that the crucifixion of the Messiah was narrated via “recurring testimony”.











Luke says:







“But all those who knew him, including the women who had followed him from Galilee, stood at a distance, watching these things”







[Luke 23:49].







John says:







“Near the cross of Jesus stood his mother, his mother’s sister, Mary the wife of Clopas, and Mary Magdalene”







[John 19:23].







John Fenton says: The disciples fled when Jesus was arrested, and even though Peter had followed him from afar to the courtyard of the high priest, we do not hear anything more about him, after he denied Jesus.







Matthew, Mark and Luke tell us that the witnesses to the crucifixion were women who had followed Jesus from Galilee to Jerusalem; they saw his burial and discovered the tomb empty on the Sunday morning, and they met Jesus after his resurrection.







The scholars commented on what John said about Mary, the mother of the Messiah, being present at the cross by saying: That is not possible at all, that the relatives and friends of Jesus would be allowed to stand near the cross.







Similarly, the Encyclopaedia Britannica says, commenting on the differences in the gospels concerning those who witnessed the crucifixion: We find in the (three) synoptic Gospels that only the women followed Jesus, and that the list which was written very carefully and in precise detail did not include his mother – and that they were watching from afar.







But in John, we find that his mother Mary stood with the two other Marys and the “beloved disciple” beneath the cross, and from that time, the beloved disciple took this story to his close friends.







At the same time, his mother does not appear in Jerusalem – according to the ancient texts – except just before the feast of Pentecost, when she is accompanied by his brothers (Acts 1:14).







End quote from Munaazarah bayna al-Islam wa’n-Nasraaniyyah [Debate between Islam and Christianity] (p. 107).







https://islamqa.info/en/answers/224199/the-crucifixion-of-the-messiah-between-islam-and-christianity















Was Jesus (pbuh) Really Crucified? - Dr Zakir Naik













The Qur’an does not acknowledge the death and crucifixion of Jesus





and for boasting, “We killed the Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, the messenger of Allah.” But they neither killed nor crucified him—it was only made to appear so.1 Even those who argue for this ˹crucifixion˺ are in doubt. They have no knowledge whatsoever—only making assumptions. They certainly did not kill him.

Surah An-Nisa - 157-158 - Quran


God therefore affirms that He raised His servant JESUS to heaven after having recalled his soul to its sleep - without it having died according to the most just and decisive opinion - to thus remove it from the hands of the Jews who had denounced to one of the ungodly kings of the time. The king ordered the killing of Jesus and crucifixion him

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The difference between sacrifice in the Qur'an and the Bible

There is no human sacrifice in Islam like Christians
But there is animal sacrifice as a ritual of pilgrimage

see here

التضحية البشرية ما بين إبراهيم ويسوع | هاشم وصبور في حوار مع مسيحي

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Christ will not bear the sins of people and he is not god
. Adam's sin has nothing to do with Jesus, nor does His murder absolve any human from any state of sin, because nobody, not even Jesus can atone for the sins of others, because this would be a gross injustice to Jesus to suggest His died for somebody else's sin.



Each comes into life new and fresh and without sin. You have a physical beginning and no sins of the past can ever be put on a new born child.



There are many examples in scripture that make me hope that you are wrong.

see here






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Biblican

Well-known member
So, according to what your scripture says, none of the disciples of the Messiah were present at the crucifixion at all; rather those who were present were some of the women, although the Gospels differ as to their number and identity.
Not true. The Apostle John was there and Jesus told him to take care of Mary. John 19:25-27. The phrase "the disciple whom Jesus loved" refers to John. He was greatly beloved like Daniel because he would receive the book of Revelation which completed Daniel's visions.
 

Biblican

Well-known member
Christ will not bear the sins of people and he is not god
. Adam's sin has nothing to do with Jesus, nor does His murder absolve any human from any state of sin, because nobody, not even Jesus can atone for the sins of others, because this would be a gross injustice to Jesus to suggest His died for somebody else's sin.
Then you are saying Jesus lied. Muhammad said Jesus is the Messiah so He cannot lie.
You do not understand that the plan of redemption was instigated in Eden. And you do not understand the depth of God's love. Jesus willingly sacrificed Himself because of His great love for God and us. His death is an exquisite example of selfless giving which is an example for us to follow.
He was ordained by God to make an atonemnt for sin because He is the only one who could do it. Again, your teachers do not understand the Old Testament and how it foreshadows all of this. In that you have much incommon with the Jews who have the same problem. You keep repeating what your teachers have told you and because you have not done your own research like I have, you are believing a lot of misinformation.
Muhammad said that the image was crucified and he was referring to Jesus' body because he understood that "Ruh Allah" could not be killed, only the body.
Jesus has God's life in Himself as He said and that is a quality only God can have. Jesus is not God the Father, He is Divine because His Spirit is God's Spirit and they are one as Jesus said. I do not belive that Jesus lied. I think Muhhamad would say that would be a blashphemy.
 

Biblican

Well-known member
Each comes into life new and fresh and without sin. You have a physical beginning and no sins of the past can ever be put on a new born child.
I agree with this. God makes the souls in the body and therefore every soul God makes is perfect and sinless. But it is in a body with a spirit that is inherited from the parents and the body and spirit are subject to the corruption that is the result of Adam and Eve's disobedience. If a soul never gave into the corrupt influences of the body and spirit, then the soul would be sinless and would not need forgiveness or redemption. But the only one who did not sin was Jesus which was a qualification for Him to be the prophesied Redeemer of mankind.
Remember, Adam and Eve only had one commadment to keep and they blew it. The Jews had to keep ten and they broke the first one before Moses had a chance to give them the tablets. That is why Moses broke the tablets when they sinned showing us that if we break one commandment we've broken them all in God's eyes. That is why he gave Moses the plan for the tabernacle when He gave him the commandments because He knew they would sin and needed a provision to have their sins forgiven. The tabernacle in turn is the foreshadow of Jesus' sacrifice.
 

Biblican

Well-known member
The legend of Isaiah 53 and the great forgery


First: The text does not mention the name of Christ, peace be upon him, from near or far!

The speech, then, will be through the descriptions mentioned in this text, so we have to examine these descriptions and compare them with the true biography of Christ to know whether Isaiah 53 is talking about him or not!!


Second: If we look at the descriptions that came in this text, we will find that they are not descriptions of Christ, peace be upon him, according to what came in the New Testament!
Isaiah 53 is not a legend it is a prophecy from Isaiah who also prophesied of many other things accurately. The text of Isaiah 53 was preserved in the dead sea scrolls and they can be read today. It describes the atonement and sacrifice of a soul for the sin of others which Jesus fulfilled.
 

Lee Magee

Member
Isaiah 53 is not a legend it is a prophecy from Isaiah who also prophesied of many other things accurately. The text of Isaiah 53 was preserved in the dead sea scrolls and they can be read today. It describes the atonement and sacrifice of a soul for the sin of others which Jesus fulfilled.

You must have read a different Isaiah.
 

akay

Member
John being the more famous of the two, why should we disqualify him from having authored the Gospel of “John”?
Umm … because he was dead?

Multiple sources acknowledge there is no evidence, other than questionable testimonies of second century authors, to suggest that the disciple John was the author of the Gospel of “John.”[26] [27] Perhaps the most convincing refutation is that the disciple John is believed to have died in or around 98 CE.[28] However, the Gospel of John was written circa 110 CE.[29] So whoever Luke (Paul’s companion), Mark (Peter’s secretary), and John (the unknown, but certainly not the long-dead one) were, we have no reason to believe any of the gospels were authored by Jesus’ disciples


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Muhammad said that the image was crucified and he was referring to Jesus' body because he understood that "Ruh Allah" could not be killed, only the body.

Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, did not say that
Do not speak lies to the Prophet

quote from your scripture and the words of your scholars


Not my private opinion or my teachers

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Jesus, peace be upon him, was not killed, nor was he crucified, and he will not bear the sins of people

The most common belief among Christians is the belief that Jesus died for our sins, but the question is:
Who said that Jesus died for our sins?

Actually when we look at the verses Christians use to prove this belief, we find that 95% of these verses are from Paul’s epistles, and the verses used to prove this belief from the Gospels are very few, which puts a question mark on its source and whether Jesus really told that he would die on the cross for our sins.


we as Muslims don’t need to believe that God needs to be a man or to be crucified for our sins, because God is mightier than that, we actually believe that this is a blasphemy and an insult against God. For sin to be forgiven by God, mans should repent faithfully to God, and acknowledge his sins, and God is the All Forgiver and All Merciful who will forgive him if He really knew he is really intending to repent and stop the sin:

110. And whoever does a wrong or wrongs himself but then seeks forgiveness of Allāh will find Allāh Forgiving and Merciful. ( Holy Quran 4:110)
Doesn’t God forgive sins without Jesus dying?

No need for all that so that God forgives my sins, and this is what is also said by the Old Testament:

Eze 18:21″But if a wicked person turns away from all his sins that he has committed and keeps all my statutes and does what is just and right, he shall surely live; he shall not die.

Eze 18:22None of the transgressions that he has committed shall be remembered against him; for the righteousness that he has done he shall live.
Did Jesus know that he came to die for our sins?


God only punishes the guilty in Islam and does not harm the innocent
Muslims do not believe in blood sacrifice and they do not believe that a holy man like Jesus should die such a cruel and humiliating death. He bears the sins of mankind while he is innocent

It is better for God to forgive without bloodshed, because He is able to do so, as in Islam, God forgives without killing an innocent person and shedding blood.
God only punishes those who commit a sin, and does not punish the oppressed



Logically, rationally and scientifically, sin is not inherited from the father to his son because it is one of the acquired actions that are not inherited. If your father committed a sin, do you inherit his sin as you inherit the color of his eyes. ? If the father chose to be a criminal, does this mean that his son will inherit from him this nature that is in the father? Likewise, if the father is good, it does not necessarily mean that the son will be so, because he inherited the nature of his father


The belief the inherited sin. contradicts divine justice. This is because the just God punishes a person for what he did, not for what his father or grandparents did. The Bible says in Ezekiel 18/20-21: The one who sins is the one who will die. The child will not share the guilt of the parent, nor will the parent share the guilt of the child. The righteousness of the righteous will be credited to them, and the wickedness of the wicked will be charged against them.

This text indicates the responsibility of each individual for his sin and thus denies the inherited sin.

And in Matthew 16-27: and then he will reward each person according to what they have done.
. Christ Himself decides that each person will be rewarded according to his deeds. This contradicts inherited sin and salvation by crucifixion, because the text indicates that salvation is through work and not by crucifixion

CONCEPT OF ORIGINAL SIN IN ISLAM & CHRISTIANITY dr zakir naik



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Isaiah 53 Explained-Dr.Zakir Naik



 

Biblican

Well-known member
And a different Genesis. Are you reading an abridged version?.
Nope. I am reading from the King James, The plan of redemption was instigated in Eden and the foreshadows, typologies and prophecies are consistent throughout the entire Old Testament no matter which translation is used.
 

Biblican

Well-known member
John being the more famous of the two, why should we disqualify him from having authored the Gospel of “John”?
Umm … because he was dead?

Multiple sources acknowledge there is no evidence, other than questionable testimonies of second century authors, to suggest that the disciple John was the author of the Gospel of “John.”[26] [27] Perhaps the most convincing refutation is that the disciple John is believed to have died in or around 98 CE.[28] However, the Gospel of John was written circa 110 CE.[29] So whoever Luke (Paul’s companion), Mark (Peter’s secretary), and John (the unknown, but certainly not the long-dead one) were, we have no reason to believe any of the gospels were authored by Jesus’ disciples
John's Gospel was written before he died because it was in circulation in the church before that. Copies were written after his death. John was an eyewitness to Jesus' death which is evident from John 19:35 and John 21:24. - And he that saw it bore record, and his record is true: and he knows that he says true, that you might believe.
This is the disciple which testifies of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.
 

Biblican

Well-known member
Muhammad said that the image was crucified and he was referring to Jesus' body because he understood that "Ruh Allah" could not be killed, only the body.

Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, did not say that
Do not speak lies to the Prophet

quote from your scripture and the words of your scholars
What Muhammad said was misinterpreted by his followers. He said the Jews didn't kill him, only the image. The translation I have says, "only a likeness was shown to them." The image, His body, they couldn't kill His soul and spirit.
Muhammad didn't say Jesus didn't die because in another place he says, - "You Jesus I am, I am making you die and raising you to Me"...3:55.
Muhammad also said that Jesus had power over death 3:49.
And that He knows the way to heaven 3:33.
Muhammad said he did not know the way to heaven - "Save yourselves from hellfire, as I cannot save you from Allah's punishment...nor do I know what will become with me or you...Sahih Bukhari Vol. 4, book 51, #16 and the Koran Sura 46:9.
One thing that Muslims need to understand, Christianity is not a religion that requires conversion, it is a relationship with God that is established through faith in God's plan of redemption that was fulfilled in Jesus. The goal of Islam is to have the same relationship with God that Abraham had and that is what Jesus came to give us. Abraham was led directly by God's voice, His Spirit, before there was any written law. He did justice and judgment as he was led by God's Spirit. That is what Jesus gives us, He removes our sins so we can receive the Holy Spirit and be led like Abraham was. You don't have to convert to Christianity to have that relationship. You can receive Jesus as the Messiah and be a Messianic Muslim. In fact he will make you a better Muslim. According to the Koran, the first Muslims, people surrendered to God which is what the name means, were Jesus' disciples who came to God through Him. That tells me that no one can be a true Muslim, or surrendered to God unless they come to Him through the Messiah as God has ordained. Peace to you, brother.
 

Lee Magee

Member
John's Gospel was written before he died because it was in circulation in the church before that. Copies were written after his death. John was an eyewitness to Jesus' death which is evident from John 19:35 and John 21:24. - And he that saw it bore record, and his record is true: and he knows that he says true, that you might believe.
This is the disciple which testifies of these things, and wrote these things: and we know that his testimony is true.

He is not the only zombie writer.
Deuteronomy 34:5 Moses the servant of the Lord died.

Did Moses write this?
 
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