Who or What is the Trinity ?

I see the anti crowd cannot understand the Creed the same way they cannot understand Scripture. Christianity( Trinitarianism) is Monotheistic. One God, 3 Persons.

Its as simple as that, not 3 gods which is Tritheism.

hope this helps !!!

but I highly doubt it will as the anti crowd will TWIST my post like they do the scriptures.

so once again............

hope this helps !!!
Yeah...but HOW is the 3 who ARE GOD, not thought of normally...as THREE GODS sir? You cannot say how, you can only state the mystical premise. That three ARE GOD but not in turn THREE GODS. This makes NO SENSE, sensei.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
jason was on CARM language forums prior to the crash, he was/is an atheist who knows biblical hebrew and greek fluently and teaches it online. this person george cannot hold a candle to jason when it comes to Greek and Hebrew. One good thing about jason is he is objective and without bias when it comes to scripture and is very objective. He acknowledges all the passages where Christ is called God even though personally He denies the very existence of God.

I believe this poster george is not his real name and his former alias is john milton on carm.
Wrong, for he isn't John Milton Civic.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
I see the anti crowd cannot understand the Creed the same way they cannot understand Scripture. Christianity( Trinitarianism) is Monotheistic. One God, 3 Persons.

Its as simple as that, not 3 gods which is Tritheism.

hope this helps !!!

but I highly doubt it will as the anti crowd will TWIST my post like they do the scriptures.

so once again............

hope this helps !!!
I have absolutely no problem at all understanding it civic, my problem with it, is that it isn't correct with what the scriptures teache at all but it is a fabrication from men devoid of the true discernment of the Holy Spirit. By the way, with the way that you interpret John 1:1, you don't end up with two persons who are the same God at all but instead you have John saying that there were two God's in the beginning with one another.

The one is called "The God" and the other is called "The Logos who was God and also with The God" and that makes two Gods in your messed up interpretation of this passage. That is why the complete definition of the word "Logos" must determine in what way the Logos was God.

The definition of the word "Logos" can really be summed up as God in regards to his mind and thinking and either unspoken or spoken and which was also written in the scriptures also.

So then, what John is revealing here, is that Jesus the human Son of God and his future coming to redeem and restore the creation back to God from the fall, was at the very center of the Logos = The Mind of God and before anything else was created and therefore all things were created through him and in him.

For without Jesus at the center of God's mind concerning everything God would create, he wouldn't have created them knowing that they would be corrupted by sin and the fall.

Also, there are two ways in which the Logos became flesh when Jesus was born. First, the mind of God = the Logos and that was revealed all through the scriptures concerning Jesus and his future coming, was made a reality in flesh when he was born.


Secondly, God copied into the human being Jesus Christ his own Logos = his own mind at the birth of Jesus (see Hebrews 1:3) and then required that Jesus maintain it through perfect obedience against many temptations in order not to lose it.

That is what John 1:14 means when it says, "and the Logos became flesh" and not like what you falsely believe about it.
 
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aeg4971

Active member
What is said and what is meant to be understood are at times two very different things. Clearly this distinction escapes you. Considering I have yet to see hear or read one anti Trinitarian adequately or properly articulate this name Trinity in God , your only objection at the end of the day, is over terminology and that doesn't count.

Since Christianity didn't all of sudden become polytheistic , we would not say three persons is three gods and lords on account God is nowise contained in a subject. Besides this number three does not actually exist in God since all in Him is His essence.

Alan.....
It says what it says...Why should I read what it does not say into it...As a matter of fact, one must be myopic and rudimentary to believe the trinity..
So in reality I am not supposing anything. The poster made a claim and I exposed the folly of the claim. Since each person is Lord and God and you have three persons it follows that you have three Lord and God.
 

Tanachreader

Active member
It's all nonsense and not in the scripture. Jesus is not God...and there is no mention of a trinity in the scripture.

David say’s the LORD is his shepherd and Jesus say’s He is the good shepherd.
Notice Jesus says’s he is the good shepherd and we know Jesus said only God is good.
So Jesus say’s He is God.
Also look up Savior as only God is the Savior so is Jesus your Savior.


Matthew 19:17 (KJV)
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mark 10:18 (KJV)
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God.
Luke 18:19 (KJV)
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none [is] good, save one, [that is], God.


Psalm 23:1
1 ¶ [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

John 10:11 (KJV)
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
 

civic

Well-known member
David say’s the LORD is his shepherd and Jesus say’s He is the good shepherd.
Notice Jesus says’s he is the good shepherd and we know Jesus said only God is good.
So Jesus say’s He is God.
Also look up Savior as only God is the Savior so is Jesus your Savior.


Matthew 19:17 (KJV)
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mark 10:18 (KJV)
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God.
Luke 18:19 (KJV)
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none [is] good, save one, [that is], God.


Psalm 23:1
1 ¶ [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

John 10:11 (KJV)
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
I find it unbelievable how one can miss that in Scripture. It just goes to show that No One can say Jesus is LORD(YHWH) except by the Spirit.
 
David say’s the LORD is his shepherd and Jesus say’s He is the good shepherd.
Notice Jesus says’s he is the good shepherd and we know Jesus said only God is good.
So Jesus say’s He is God.
Also look up Savior as only God is the Savior so is Jesus your Savior.


Matthew 19:17 (KJV)
And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
Mark 10:18 (KJV)
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? [there is] none good but one, [that is], God.
Luke 18:19 (KJV)
And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? none [is] good, save one, [that is], God.


Psalm 23:1
1 ¶ [[A Psalm of David.]] The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

John 10:11 (KJV)
I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.
It's ironic you use the question "Why do you call me good," to prove Jesus God. Exactly the OPPOSITE of what he was rebuking the "master caller" with. The point was...only God is ABSOLUTELY good. There's good humans, and not-so-good humans. There's bad humans, but NONE compare to the Only True God, Jn 17:3.
 
Never heard of them.
Abrahamic Monotheists, essentially the same as...biblical unitarians. Look it up. Weep in your soup since you didn't get enough when your brain was developing. And since it has so little MEAT innit. If you don't know what a biblical UNITARIAN is...what you do'en here anyhow?
 
What is said and what is meant to be understood are at times two very different things. Clearly this distinction escapes you. Considering I have yet to see hear or read one anti Trinitarian adequately or properly articulate this name Trinity in God , your only objection at the end of the day, is over terminology and that doesn't count.

Since Christianity didn't all of sudden become polytheistic , we would not say three persons is three gods and lords on account God is nowise contained in a subject. Besides this number three does not actually exist in God since all in Him is His essence.

Alan.....
Your ADEQUATE rendition of Trinity is...ADEQUATE sir? HAH, humbug. Get the zapper. Sit onnit.
 
I find it unbelievable how one can miss that in Scripture. It just goes to show that No One can say Jesus is LORD(YHWH) except by the Spirit.
Yeah...like...how many times was Jesus CALLED "YHWH" in Text. And...how many times did he call HIMSELF "YHWH" in Text. We should all go home and put our head under the nearest rock.
 
Abrahamic Monotheists, essentially the same as...biblical unitarians. Look it up. Weep in your soup since you didn't get enough when your brain was developing. And since it has so little MEAT innit. If you don't know what a biblical UNITARIAN is...what you do'en here anyhow?

Still never heard of them. Sorry.
 

eternomade

Active member
Abrahamic Monotheists, essentially the same as...biblical unitarians. Look it up. Weep in your soup since you didn't get enough when your brain was developing. And since it has so little MEAT innit. If you don't know what a biblical UNITARIAN is...what you do'en here anyhow?
Can I be considered an "Abrahamic Monotheist"? I am Monotheist and Abraham knew that YHWH has revealed Himself in many ways;)(Angel/messenger of the LORD, Word of the LORD, Glory of the LORD). I think he even ate lunch with him in Genesis 18!
 

civic

Well-known member
Yeah...like...how many times was Jesus CALLED "YHWH" in Text. And...how many times did he call HIMSELF "YHWH" in Text. We should all go home and put our head under the nearest rock.
John 1:1, John 8:24, John 8:58, John 20:28,Romans 10:13, Joel 2:32, Isaiah 6:1-4, John 12:41, Titus 2:13, 2 Peter 1:1, 2 Peter 1:11, Hebrews 1:8-10, 1 John 5:20, Revelation 1:8 and the list goes on and on and on and on.

hope this helps !!!
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
I find it unbelievable how one can miss that in Scripture. It just goes to show that No One can say Jesus is LORD(YHWH) except by the Spirit.
What you seemed to have missed however, is the fact that Jesus became the good shepherd only after God gave him the sheep to shepherd and as he himself clearly told us in John 10:26-30.

John 10:26-30​

New King James Version​

26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, [a]as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.


Therefore the Father and the Son became one in their care for the sheep and then when Jesus was going to leave them to go the Father, he prayed that they would also be one in their care for one another just like he and his Father are one also.

Notice, the context in both passages is about the care of the sheep Civic.



John 17:11​

New King James Version​

11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.


John 17:20-23​

New King James Version​

Jesus Prays for All Believers​

20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one (unity), and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.


Therefore the Father and the Son are as one shepherd in their unity of care over the sheep but not as one God.


Parry and thrust Oh God through your might Spirit I pray in Jesus' name, amen!
 

civic

Well-known member
What you seemed to have missed however, is the fact that Jesus became the good shepherd only after God gave him the sheep to shepherd and as he himself clearly told us in John 10:26-30.

John 10:26-30​

New King James Version​

26 But you do not believe, because you are not of My sheep, [a]as I said to you. 27 My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. 28 And I give them eternal life, and they shall never perish; neither shall anyone snatch them out of My hand. 29 My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of My Father’s hand. 30 I and My Father are one.


Therefore the Father and the Son became one in their care for the sheep and then when Jesus was going to leave them to go the Father, he prayed that they would also be one in their care for one another just like he and his Father are one also.

Notice, the context in both passages is about the care of the sheep Civic.



John 17:11​

New King James Version​

11 Now I am no longer in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to You. Holy Father, keep through Your name those whom You have given Me, that they may be one as We are.


John 17:20-23​

New King James Version​

Jesus Prays for All Believers​

20 “I do not pray for these alone, but also for those who will believe in Me through their word; 21 that they all may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I in You; that they also may be one in Us, that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 And the glory which You gave Me I have given them, that they may be one just as We are one: 23 I in them, and You in Me; that they may be made perfect in one (unity), and that the world may know that You have sent Me, and have loved them as You have loved Me.


Therefore the Father and the Son are as one shepherd in their unity of care over the sheep but not as one God.


Parry and thrust Oh God through your might Spirit I pray in Jesus' name, amen!
Sorry once again to burst you bubble but Jesus is the Shepherd in the OT ie Psalm 23. In Revelation 7:17, "for the Lamb in the center of the throne shall be their shepherd and shall guide them to springs of the water of life; and God shall wipe every tear from their eye.”

Psalm 23:1
The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

Psalm 23:2
He makes me lie down in green pastures; He leads me beside quiet waters.

John 10
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12 The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13 The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.
 

Yahweh will increase

Well-known member
Sorry once again to burst you bubble but Jesus is the Shepherd in the OT ie Psalm 23. In Revelation 7:17, "for the Lamb in the center of the throne shall be their shepherd and shall guide them to springs of the water of life; and God shall wipe every tear from their eye.”

Psalm 23:1
The LORD is my shepherd; I shall not want.

Psalm 23:2
He makes me lie down in green pastures; He leads me beside quiet waters.

John 10
I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd lays down his life for the sheep. 12 The hired hand is not the shepherd and does not own the sheep. So when he sees the wolf coming, he abandons the sheep and runs away. Then the wolf attacks the flock and scatters it. 13 The man runs away because he is a hired hand and cares nothing for the sheep.

14 “I am the good shepherd; I know my sheep and my sheep know me— 15 just as the Father knows me and I know the Father—and I lay down my life for the sheep. 16 I have other sheep that are not of this sheep pen. I must bring them also. They too will listen to my voice, and there shall be one flock and one shepherd.
LOL's! How is it then that Jesus himself told us in John 10:29, that it was the Father who gave him the sheep? When did God give Jesus the sheep Civic?

Of course in the OT, the Father God alone was the Good Shepherd of the sheep, for Jesus had not yet been sent for God to give them into his care and this just shows again, your ignorance about these things civic.

For in the NT, God shepherds the sheep through his human heir (Son) and mediator and the one he has made both Lord and Christ.

You need to be reminded also that Paul very clearly told us "for there is one God and one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus.


Therefore the shepherding of God is mediated through the man Jesus Christ his human heir (Son) and who he has made both Lord and Christ.

In fact, everything that God is towards us, is mediated through his human heir (Son) and only mediator Jesus Christ and this is why they also share the same titles on many things other than the actual name Yahweh God.


1 Timothy 2:5​

King James Version​

5 For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus;

Acts 2:22​

New International Version​

22 “Fellow Israelites, listen to this: Jesus of Nazareth was a man accredited by God to you by miracles, wonders and signs, which God did among you through him, as you yourselves know.


Acts 2:36

New International Version

36 “Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Messiah.”
 
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