Who or What is the Trinity ?

[Fred]

Does Jesus have knees?

You are going to bow your knees to Jesus one day.

 

[Tanachreader]

Does Jesus have knees?

Yes to bend and sit on the throne and Judge everyone including you.

 

[Newbirth]

it was done save His people.

Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;

It says God exalted Jesus therefore Jesus is not God

 

[Newbirth]

The trinity doctrine did not originate with the Athanasian Creed.

Well, duh, they had to come up with it first, before they wrote it. Did you not realize there is no mention of a trinity in the NT by the apostles.

 

[Newbirth]

You just dodged Philippians 2:10-11.

No, I did not...I ignored you because you cherrypick parts of the scripture to create a false doctrine. Notice you deliberately left out versus 9...

9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.

Jesus can do nothing of himself... therefore Jesus is not God.
John 5:30
I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.

 

[Newbirth]

The "one Lord" in reference to Jesus being YHWH (1 Corinthians 8:6)

See post 235. Fred said: Although sometimes referred to in order to demonstrate the Lord Jesus is not God

forums.carm.org

The one God is referred to as the one God the father... in 1 Corinthians 8:6

 

[OldShepherd]

Well, duh, they had to come up with it first, before they wrote it. Did you not realize there is no mention of a trinity in the NT by the apostles.

Duh Uh! There are a lot of things not mentioned in the NT.
Anti-Trinitarians endlessly squabble and bicker about words, used by Trinitarians, trying to express the nature of God, as revealed in scripture, e.g. Trinity,””triune,””person,""being,""entity,""substance,""essence,"”nature,””who," Hypostatic union," etc., etc., All words are inherently finite and imperfect, therefore these words, and/or any other words, are totally inadequate to describe God, the infinite, perfect, omniscient, omnipresent, omnipotent. But the fact that human words are finite, limited and imperfect does not prove or disprove anything about the doctrine of the Trinity.
Here yet again scriptural truths I have posted before, without any so-called unscriptural words or man made doctrines.
1. There is one God! The Father is called/referred to as God, in scripture, but the Father is not the Son or the Spirit. Numerous vss. e.g., John 6:27, Gal 1:1, Gal 1:3, Eph 6:23, Philippians 2:11, 1 Thess 1:1, 2 Tim 1:2, Titus 1:4, 1 Peter 1:2, 2 Peter 1:17 et. al.
2. There is one God! The Son is called/referred to as God, in scripture, but the Son is not the Father or the Holy Spirit. Thirty six (36) scripture which address or refer to Jesus as God, Matt 1:23, Isa 9:6, Luke 7:16, John 1:1, 3, 4, 10, 14, 18, 10:33, 5:18,8: 58, 12;24, 14:9, 17:5, 10, 20:28, Act 20:28, Rom 9:5, 2 Cor 4:4, Col 1:14-16, 2:9, Eph 3:9, Heb 1:1:2-3, 8-12, 3:3, Phi 2:6, 1 Tim 1:1, 3:16, 6:15, Tit 2;13, 2 Pet 1:1, 1 John 5:20, Rev 17:14, 19;16, 22:12-13

[1] Mat 1:23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.​

[2]Isaiah 7:14​

14 Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: The virgin will conceive and give birth to a son, and will call him Immanuel.​

[3]Luk 7:16 And there came a fear on all: and they glorified God, saying, That a great prophet is risen up among us; and, That God hath visited his people.​

[4] Joh 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.​

[5] Joh 1:3 All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.​

[6] Joh 1:10 He was in the world, and the world was made by him[God created the world, Gen 1:1], and the world knew him not.​

[7] Joh 1:14 And the Word [acting on Himself] became flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.​

[8] Joh 1:18 No man hath seen God at any time; the only begotten God, μονογενὴς θεὸς ] which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.​

[9] John 10:30 I and my Father are one.​

[10] Joh 10:33 The Jews answered him, saying, For a good work we stone thee not; but for blasphemy; and because that thou, being a man, makest thyself God. [Jewish leaders speaking]​

[11] Joh 5:18 Therefore the Jews sought the more to kill him, because he not only had broken the sabbath, but said also that God was his Father, making himself equal with God.[John speaking]​

[12] Joh 8:58 Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, [Amen, Amen] I say unto you, before Abraham was, I am [ אהיה/ehyeh, I am, Ex 3:14].​

[13] John 12:41 These things said Esaias, when he saw his [Jesus] glory, and spake of him[יהוה/YHWH, Isa 6:1ff].​

Isa 6:1 In the year that king Uzziah died I saw also the Lord sitting upon a throne, high and lifted up, and his train filled the temple​

[14] Joh 14:9 Jesus saith unto him, Have I been so long time with you, and yet hast thou not known me, Philip? he that hath seen me hath seen the Father; and how sayest thou then, Shew us the Father?​

[15] Joh 17:5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was[Jesus was aware of His existence,with God, before the world was created.].​

[16] Joh 17:10 And all mine are thine, and thine are mine[Everything that belongs to the Father belongs to Jesus]; and I am glorified in them.​

[17] Joh 20:28 And Thomas answered and said unto him, [Jesus] My Lord and my God. [Thomas addressed Jesus as God and Jesus praised him.]​

[18] Act 20:28 Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood.​

[19] Rom 9:5 Whose are the fathers, and of whom as concerning the flesh Christ came, who is over all, God blessed for ever[Jesus called God]. Amen.​

[20] 2 Cor 4:4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them.​

[21] Col 1:14 In whom we have redemption through his blood, even the forgiveness of sins:​

15 Who is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of every creature:​

16 For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:​

[22] Col 2:9 For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily.​

[23] Eph 3:9 And to make all men see what is the fellowship of the mystery, which from the beginning of the world hath been hid in God, who created all things by Jesus Christ:​

[24] Heb 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;​

3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;​

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Character limit. Continued next post.​

 

[OldShepherd]

[Previous post continued]

[25] Heb 1:8 But unto the Son he saith, Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever[God calls the Son, God]: a sceptre of righteousness is the sceptre of thy kingdom.
9 Thou hast loved righteousness, and hated iniquity; therefore God, even thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.
10 And, Thou, Lord, in the beginning hast laid the foundation of the earth; and the heavens are the works of thine hands:
11 They shall perish; but thou remainest; and they all shall wax old as doth a garment;
12 And as a vesture shalt thou fold them up, and they shall be changed: but thou art the same, and thy years shall not fail.
[26] Heb 3:3 For this man was counted worthy of more glory than Moses, inasmuch as he who hath builded the house hath more honour than the house.
4 For every house is builded by some man; but he that built all things is God.
[27] Phi 2:6 Who, being [existing] in the form of God, thought it not something to be used to His advantage the being[present, active infinitive] equal with God:[The being equal to God was a then and there reality not something considered and declined.]
[28] 1 Tim 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh[Jesus called God], is justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
[29] 1 Tim 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the commandment of God our Saviour, and Lord Jesus Christ[Jesus called God], which is our hope;
[If Jesus is not God and savior in vs,1 He is not Lord and savior in vs. 11. Same grammatical construction]

2 Peter 1:11 For so an entrance shall be ministered unto you abundantly into the everlasting kingdom of our Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ.​

[30] 1 Tim 6:15 Which in his times he shall shew, who is the blessed and only Potentate, the King of kings, and Lord of lords;[The lamb is king of kings, Rev 17:14, Jesus is king of kings, Rev 19:16, God is Lord of Lords Deu 10:17]
[31] Tit 2:13 Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ[Jesus called God. If Jesus is not God in Tts 2:13 He is not Lord and Savior 2 Pet 1:11, same grammatical structure.];
14 Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.
[32] 2 Pet 1:1 Simon Peter, a servant and an apostle of Jesus Christ, to them that have obtained like precious faith with us through the righteousness of God and our Saviour Jesus Christ[Jesus called God. If Jesus is NOT God and savior 2 Pet 1:1, He is not Lord and savior vs. 2:11, same grammatical structure.]:
[33] 1 John 5:20 And we know that the Son of God is come, and hath given us an understanding, that we may know him that is true, and we are in him that is true, even in his Son Jesus Christ. This is the true God, and eternal life[Jesus called God].
[34] Rev 17:14 These shall make war with the Lamb, and the Lamb shall overcome them: for he is Lord of lords, and King of kings[יהוה/YHWH, Deu 10:17]: and they that are with him are called, and chosen, and faithful.
[35] Rev 19:16 And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS[יהוה/YHWH, Deu 10:17].
[36] Rev 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and my reward is with me, to give every man according as his work shall be[יהוה/YHWH, Isa 40:10].
13 I am Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end, the first and the last.[יהוה/YHWH, Isa 44:6][/indent]
There is one God! The Holy Spirit is called/referred to as God, in scripture, but the Spirit is not the Father or the Son. Scripture which address or refer to the Holy Spirit as God. Acts 5:3-4; Acts 28:25-27-Isa 6:8-10; Heb 10:15-17=Jer 32:33-34; Heb 3:7-11-Ps 95:1011, Deu 1:34-35

[Character limit Continued next post]

 

[OldShepherd]

[Previous post continued]

Scripture which identify the Holy Spirit as God

[1] Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?​

4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.​

This passage, Act 5:3-4, above, identifies the Holy Spirit as God by equating lying to the H.S. with lying to God.

[2] Act 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,​

26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:​

27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.​

This passage Act 28:25-27, above, identifies the Holy Spirit as YHWH by saying the H.S. spoke words which were spoken by YHWH, in Isa 6:8-10, below.

Isa 6:8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, [יהוה/YHWH] saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.​

9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.​

10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.​

= = = = = = = = = = =

[3] Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,​

16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;​

17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. [O.T. see יהוה/YHWH, Jer 31:33-34]​

This passage, Heb 10:15-17, above, identifies the Holy Spirit as YHWH by saying words spoken by YHWH, in Jer 31:33-34, below, were spoken by the H.S.

Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, [יהוה/YHWH] I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.​

34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.​

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[4] Heb 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,​

8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:​

9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.​

10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. [O.T. יהוה/YHWH, Ps 95:10]​

11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) [O.T. יהוה/YHWH, Deu 1:34-35]​

This passage, Heb 3:7-11, above, identifies the Holy Spirit as YHWH by saying words spoken by YHWH in Psa 95:10-11, and Deu 1:34-35, below, were spoken by the Holy Spirit.

Psa 95:10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:​

11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.​

= = = = = = = = = =​

Deu 1:34 And the LORD [יהוה/YHWH] heard the voice of your words, and was wroth, and sware, saying,​

35 Surely there shall not one of these men of this evil generation see that good land, which I sware to give unto your fathers,​

There is one God! The Father, the Son, and the Spirit, all three are called/ referred to as God, in scripture, but each has a distinct mind, will, and self; John 16:13, 1 Cor 12:11, Philippians 2:5, John 5:26, Rom 8:27, Matthew 26:39.

 

[Tanachreader]

It says God exalted Jesus therefore Jesus is not God

See post #909 910 911

 

[Jewjitzu]

Correction: You will to Him.

But he's got a good set of knees, slightly used though

 

[Jewjitzu]

Yes to bend and sit on the throne and Judge everyone including you.

No, to bow to the one and only true God.

 

[Jewjitzu]

You are going to bow your knees to Jesus one day.

But he's bowed already to God in fulfillment of prophecy.

And since he's coming again, he can do it again. 3rd time's the charm.

 

[Dizerner]

But he's bowed already to God in fulfillment of prophecy.

And since he's coming again, he can do it again. 3rd time's the charm.

Yes, Christ is fully submitted to the Father, all Christians teach that.

But he is also the one Mediator between God and man.

That guy that God looked for someone to stand in the gap and found no one.... he decided to do it himself with the perfect representative.

 

[JNelson]

Yes, Christ is fully submitted to the Father, all Christians teach that.

But he is also the one Mediator between God and man.

That guy that God looked for someone to stand in the gap and found no one.... he decided to do it himself with the perfect representative.

God didn’t look for anyone, he predestined the man Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world for that very purpose.

 

[Tanachreader]

No, to bow to the one and only true God.

You reject God.

 

[Tanachreader]

God didn’t look for anyone, he predestined tha man Christ Jesus before the foundation of the world for that very purpose.

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.
….
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

 

[JNelson]

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 The same was in the beginning with God.
….
And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

Men of Israel, hear these words: Jesus of Nazareth, a man attested to you by God with mighty works and wonders and signs that God did through him in your midst, as you yourselves know

because he has fixed a day on which he will judge the world in righteousness through a man whom he has appointed; and of this he has given assurance to all by raising him from the dead

 

[Jewjitzu]

Yes, Christ is fully submitted to the Father, all Christians teach that.

But he is also the one Mediator between God and man.

That guy that God looked for someone to stand in the gap and found no one.... he decided to do it himself with the perfect representative.

Jesus will kneel in the gap. He isn't excluded.

 

[Jewjitzu]

You reject God.

Do you deny Jesus has knees and a tongue?