Who or What is the Trinity ?

Newbirth

Well-known member
[Previous post continued]

Scripture which identify the Holy Spirit as God
[1] Act 5:3 But Peter said, Ananias, why hath Satan filled thine heart to lie to the Holy Ghost, and to keep back part of the price of the land?
4 Whiles it remained, was it not thine own? and after it was sold, was it not in thine own power? why hast thou conceived this thing in thine heart? thou hast not lied unto men, but unto God.
This passage, Act 5:3-4, above, identifies the Holy Spirit as God by equating lying to the H.S. with lying to God.
[2] Act 28:25 And when they agreed not among themselves, they departed, after that Paul had spoken one word, Well spake the Holy Ghost by Esaias the prophet unto our fathers,
26 Saying, Go unto this people, and say, Hearing ye shall hear, and shall not understand; and seeing ye shall see, and not perceive:
27 For the heart of this people is waxed gross, and their ears are dull of hearing, and their eyes have they closed; lest they should see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and should be converted, and I should heal them.
This passage Act 28:25-27, above, identifies the Holy Spirit as YHWH by saying the H.S. spoke words which were spoken by YHWH, in Isa 6:8-10, below.
Isa 6:8 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, [יהוה/YHWH] saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me.
9 And he said, Go, and tell this people, Hear ye indeed, but understand not; and see ye indeed, but perceive not.
10 Make the heart of this people fat, and make their ears heavy, and shut their eyes; lest they see with their eyes, and hear with their ears, and understand with their heart, and convert, and be healed.
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[3] Heb 10:15 Whereof the Holy Ghost also is a witness to us: for after that he had said before,
16 This is the covenant that I will make with them after those days, saith the Lord, I will put my laws into their hearts, and in their minds will I write them;
17 And their sins and iniquities will I remember no more. [O.T. see יהוה/YHWH, Jer 31:33-34]
This passage, Heb 10:15-17, above, identifies the Holy Spirit as YHWH by saying words spoken by YHWH, in Jer 31:33-34, below, were spoken by the H.S.
Jer 31:33 But this shall be the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel; After those days, saith the LORD, [יהוה/YHWH] I will put my law in their inward parts, and write it in their hearts; and will be their God, and they shall be my people.
34 And they shall teach no more every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the LORD: for they shall all know me, from the least of them unto the greatest of them, saith the LORD: for I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.
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[4] Heb 3:7 Wherefore (as the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice,
8 Harden not your hearts, as in the provocation, in the day of temptation in the wilderness:
9 When your fathers tempted me, proved me, and saw my works forty years.
10 Wherefore I was grieved with that generation, and said, They do alway err in their heart; and they have not known my ways. [O.T. יהוה/YHWH, Ps 95:10]
11 So I sware in my wrath, They shall not enter into my rest.) [O.T. יהוה/YHWH, Deu 1:34-35]
This passage, Heb 3:7-11, above, identifies the Holy Spirit as YHWH by saying words spoken by YHWH in Psa 95:10-11, and Deu 1:34-35, below, were spoken by the Holy Spirit.
Psa 95:10 Forty years long was I grieved with this generation, and said, It is a people that do err in their heart, and they have not known my ways:
11 Unto whom I sware in my wrath that they should not enter into my rest.
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Deu 1:34 And the LORD [יהוה/YHWH] heard the voice of your words, and was wroth, and sware, saying,
35 Surely there shall not one of these men of this evil generation see that good land, which I sware to give unto your fathers,
There is one God! The Father, the Son, and the Spirit, all three are called/ referred to as God, in scripture, but each has a distinct mind, will, and self; John 16:13, 1 Cor 12:11, Philippians 2:5, John 5:26, Rom 8:27, Matthew 26:39.
Proverb 30:
5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
You don't understand head or tails about Who is God and you believe you can be saved?
God is our Father...

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

God sent Jesus to be the saviour of the world
1 John 4:14
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.
Everything I say is from scriptures. You don't know the scriptures nor the spiritual status of man.
Anthony said:
The Deity of The Son can't be apart from The Father. If God is The Father, The Son is the true Israel, the Firstborn Son.
If The Son is God then He is The Ordinal Last ( Father being The Ordinal First) - The Alpha and The Omega which God is.

Ok, show me where what you wrote is written in the scripture... Don't take from the scripture and put it in your own words, then tell me it is from the scripture...quote me the scripture saying those things.
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
Funny, God's nature is all-knowing, ever-living, perfect, etc. Jesus is none of these.
Yes He is.
Judges 2:22
That through them I may prove Israel, whether they will keep the way of the LORD to walk therein, as their fathers did keep [it], or not.

Ezekiel 2:5
And they, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear, (for they [are] a rebellious house,) yet shall know that there hath been a prophet among them.

Ezekiel 2:7
And thou shalt speak my words unto them, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear: for they [are] most rebellious.
Seeing that you brought up purification of sins, Numbers 19 discusses this for being defiled for contact with the dead.
In Him was life, anyone that had contact with Him were healed or given life again.
The Son can’t be defiled. He is God in the flesh.
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
Proverb 30:
5 Every word of God is pure: he is a shield unto them that put their trust in him.
6 Add thou not unto his words, lest he reprove thee, and thou be found a liar.
John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Yes He is.
Judges 2:22
That through them I may prove Israel, whether they will keep the way of the LORD to walk therein, as their fathers did keep [it], or not.

Ezekiel 2:5
And they, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear, (for they [are] a rebellious house,) yet shall know that there hath been a prophet among them.

Ezekiel 2:7
And thou shalt speak my words unto them, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear: for they [are] most rebellious.
Jesus wasn't all knowing, but the Father is, Matthew 6.

In Him was life, anyone that had contact with Him were healed or given life again.
Not by his power.

The Son can’t be defiled. He is God in the flesh.
He's human. The physical becomes defiled.
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
Yes. God was before everyone. Jesus was created.
Jesus was not created but was rather the Creator. “In [Jesus Christ] all things were created: . . . all things have been created through him and for him”

13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
Jesus wasn't all knowing, but the Father is, Matthew 6.
The Father determines when the Bridegroom go gets the bride.
Not by his power.
He forgave sins so people were no longer guilty before God, and even those who opposed Him knew that only God can forgive sins in this way (Mt. 9:2-3, 6; Mk. 2:5-7, 10). He also gives eternal life (Jn. 10:28).
• Jesus knew what others were thinking (Mk. 2:8; Lk. 11:7). He knew the Samaritan woman had five husbands and knew everything she had done (Jn. 4:18-19, 29). He knew the future (Mt. 16:21) and He knew everything (Jn. 16:29-30; 21:17).
• Jesus saw Nathanael before Philip told him about Jesus (Jn. 1:48-49). This is divine omniscience.
• He is omnipresent (Mt. 28:20).
• Jesus’ power over nature was clearly divine. People were amazed when the winds and the waves obeyed Him (Mt. 8:26-27). After He walked on water and calmed a storm, the disciples said “truly you are the Son of God” (Mt. 14:25-32). Also, they were amazed when Jesus calmed another storm (Mk. 4:39-41). This is divine omnipotence.
He had the power to raise Himself from the dead (Jn. 2:19-22; 10:17-18).
• He does what God the Father does (Jn. 5:19).

The disciples had none of these divine powers.

Because Jesus was sent to earth by God the Father, His goal was to do God’s will (Jn. 4:34; 14:24). He lived to please Him (Jn. 6:57). So, He always obeyed the Father and never acted independently (Jn. 5:19, 30; 10:18). Jesus often prayed to the Father and received daily instructions from Him (Mk. 1:35; Lk. 5:16; 6:12; 11:1). Matthew 26:39-44 and John 17 are examples of Christ’s prayers. They had a close relationship; the Father loved the Son (Jn. 10:15; 14:10; 15:10). George’s Journal
He's human. The physical becomes defiled.
Your defiled. No God in your life like Old and New. You don’t know anyone either.
“What goes into someone’s mouth does not defile them, but what comes out of their mouth, that is what defiles them.”
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Jesus was not created but was rather the Creator. “In [Jesus Christ] all things were created: . . . all things have been created through him and for him”

13 waiting for our blessed hope, the appearing of the glory of our great God and Savior Jesus Christ,
No, he's got knees and bows. God bows for no one.
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
No, he's got knees and bows. God bows for no one.
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
God doesn't have knees and bows to no one.
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery[arpagmos] to be equal with God: 7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: 8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. 9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father.
The translation "robbery" in Phil 2:6 for the Greek word "arpagmos" has been found to be incorrect. For centuries no other occurrence of the word had been found until the early '70s with the aid of new Greek database.
Jesus existed in one form, Philippians 2, vs. 6, but took upon himself another form, vs. 7.
What was Jesus’ form before? If he was literally, actually a man afterward what was he literally, actually before?

Philippians 2:6-11 6. Who, being [continual existence] in the form [μορφη] of God, thought it not robbery [something to be used to His advantage. NIV] the being equal with God:
(Greek Interlinear) Philippians 2:6-11 ος {who,} εν {in [the]} μορφη {form} θεου {of god} υπαρχων {subsisting,} ουχ {not} αρπαγμον {something to be used to his own advantage} ηγησατο το {esteemed it} ειναι {the being} ισα {equal} θεω {with god;}
The verb ειναι, translated ”to be,” in the KJV, which appears to be a future tense, in English, is a present infinitive, not a future tense.
the being equal with god,” was a, then, present reality not something considered and declined/rejected.
7 But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him[self] the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
Jesus’ earthly ministry occurred between verses, 7 and 8. Where the one who was equal with God, vs. 6, the one who, acting upon himself, became flesh, cf. John 1:14, made himself of no reputation, vs. 7, cf. Heb 2:17, took upon himself the form of a servant, and was in the likeness of men, vs. 7. After which God, not merely exalted him, but “highly exalted” him, and glorified him with the same glory he had with the Father before the world existed (John 17:5)
It was here where all the things anti-Trinitarians cannot comprehend happened, e.g. “If Jesus was God, why didn’t he know the hour of his return?” etc., etc., etc.
8 And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross.
If Jesus was only a mere human being, how does a human being, “humble himself and become obedient unto death?” All mankind is appointed to death, no obedience or humbling involved![ Heb 9:27]. Were the criminals who were crucified with Jesus also obedient, did they also humble themselves unto death on the cross?
9 Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
10 That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, cf. [יהוה/YHWH, Isa 45:23] of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
11 And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, cf. [ יהוה/YHWH, Isa 45:23] to the glory of God the Father.
In verses 10,11 Paul applies Isaiah 45:23, which refers to יהוה/YHWH], to Jesus as I have shown above!
The Committee on Bible Translation worked at updating the New International Version of the Bible to be published in 2011.
In it's notes under "Progress in Scholarship" it discusses the following change:
When the NIV was first translated, the meaning of the rare Greek word αρπαγμον /harpagmos, rendered ‟something to be grasped,” in Philippians 2:6 was uncertain. But further study has shown that the word refers to something that a person has in their possession but chooses not to use to their own advantage. The updated NIV reflects this new information, making clear that Jesus really was equal with God when he determined to become a human for our sake: ‟[Christ Jesus], being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage.”
See full translators notes. Link to: Bible Gateway NIV Translator’s Notes
A short excerpt from the 25 page Harvard theological review article αρπαγμον /harpagmos, by Roy Hoover, referenced in the NIV.
O petros de arpagmon ton dia stavrou thanton epoieito dia tas soterious elpidas
(And Peter considered death by means of the cross harpagmon on account of the hope of salvation, Comm in Luc 6)
Tines…ton thanaton arpagma themenoi ten ton dussebon moxtherias
(Since some regarded death as harpagma in comparison with the depravity of ungodly men. Hist. Eccl VCIII,12.2)
Not only are arpagma and arpagmos used synonymously in these two statements, but they are used synonymously by the same author in reference to the same object—death—and in expressions whose form precisely parallels that of the arpagmos remark in Phil 2:6.
What he [Eusebius] wants to say, rather, is that because of the hope of salvation crucifixion was not a horror to be shunned, but an advantage to be seized.
“Arpagma” is used exactly this way in Hist. Eccl. VIII,12.2. At this point Eusebius is recounting the sufferings of Christians in periods of persecution. Some believers in order to escape torture threw themselves down from rooftops. There can be no suggestion of “robbery” or of violent self-assertion in this remark, nor can self-inflicted death under such circumstances be considered an unanticipated windfall.
Roy W. Hoover, Harvard Theological Review (1971) 95-119, pg. 108
 
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