Who or What is the Trinity ?

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
I think it's just above what we can imagine.

Why should the limitations of our minds dictate reality?
Your mind being limited is a reality, just like our body has limitations is a reality.

God incarnated would be a contradiction.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
Your God is too small. My God is omnipotent, omniscient, omnipresent. There is nothing impossible for Him.
We've been through this OS. The NT admits Jesus was limited.

Your gods are capable of imperfection, sin, corruption, etc., since they're capable of everything. Good job.
 
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OldShepherd

Well-known member
We've been through this OS. The NT admits Jesus was limited.
Your gods are capable of imperfection, sin, corruption, etc., since they're capable of everything. Good job.
I wasn't talking about Jesus. I said your God [singular] is too small. And while Jesus was limited, while in the flesh, He was able to heal the sick, raise the dead, walk on water, feed 9000 people with only few a fish and loaves of bread.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
John 8:58
Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before Abraham was, I am.
How is that supposed to be an argument? Many men lived before Abraham. Actually, Enoch was before Abraham also and there is no record of him dying. So according to your understanding, Enoch must also be God.
 

Newbirth

Well-known member
I wasn't talking about Jesus. I said your God [singular] is too small. And while Jesus was limited, while in the flesh, He was able to heal the sick, raise the dead, walk on water, feed 9000 people with only few a fish and loaves of bread.
You are not making any sense. You just affirmed that Your God Jesus was limited...If Jesus was limited, he cannot be the almighty God.

John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
 

Tanachreader

Well-known member
How is that supposed to be an argument? Many men lived before Abraham. Actually, Enoch was before Abraham also and there is no record of him dying. So according to your understanding, Enoch must also be God.
I know what was meant as scripture says.
“All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made.”

And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
If my mind is limited, how can I be sure I know what is logically impossible?
There are logical contradictions which have nothing to do with the limitations of your mind.

Your brain is limited with how much data is stored much like a computer.

You can get a logic book, set up truth tables and figure things out.

Basic intelligence tells you that for example something is true or not. The light is on or off is an example.

The same applies to God. He's either Creator or created, not both.
 

OldShepherd

Well-known member
You are not making any sense. You just affirmed that Your God Jesus was limited...If Jesus was limited, he cannot be the almighty God.
John 10:29
My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.
John 14:28
Ye have heard how I said unto you, I go away, and come again unto you. If ye loved me, ye would rejoice, because I said, I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.
He chose to be! Read your Bible and quit all this nonsensical stuff that proves ABSOLUTELY NOTHING. Just meaningless bloviation. Why don't you do some real Bible study.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
I wasn't talking about Jesus.
I was. You prove my point. He also bows to my God.

I said your God [singular] is too small.
Actually my God isn't confined to the physical so that attribute belongs to your gods.

And while Jesus was limited, while in the flesh, He was able to heal the sick, raise the dead, walk on water, feed 9000 people with only few a fish and loaves of bread.
Rotfl... My God created everything, including Jesus. And Jesus bows to my God.
 

Anthony

Active member
A man with knees and a tongue. Got it!


Well, Jesus definitely doesn't fit this description.


Tanakh is in 3 parts.
You don't even understand your OT scriptures. YHWH is revealed as a Man in several scriptures:

Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of יהוה Elohim walking about in the garden in the cool of the day, and Aḏam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of יהוה Elohim among the trees of the garden.

How can Invisible God walk in the Garden and Adam hide prom His presence if He weren't in the form of Man?

Gen 1:26 And Elohim said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, ....

How can man be created in His image if Elohym is not in the form of a Man.

The plural 'US' and 'OUR' is to show that Elohym is in two dimensions where He is invisible as well as having the form of a Man

Gen 32:24 And Yaʽaqoḇ was left alone. And a Man wrestled with him until the breaking of day.

.30 And Yaʽaqoḇ called the name of the place Peni’ĕl, “For I have seen Elohim face to face, and my life is preserved.”

Jacob saw Elohym as a Nan face to face.

Exod 15: 3 יהוה is a man of battle, יהוה is His Name.

Tell that to Moses why he wrote YHWH was a Man of battle

Isaiah 6: 1 In the year that Sovereign Uzziyahu died, I saw יהוה sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, and the train of His robe filled the Hĕḵal.

YHWH appeared to Isaiah as The Priest after the order of Malkitsedeq with His robe filling the temple. Usually, Levitical High Priest would fill the Most Holy Place with the smoke of the incense so as to not look at the Ark of the covenant directly inorder that he might not die. Here in Isaiah 6, it's the train of His robe filling the Temple - showing that we (as Isaiah) can enter the Most Holy Place having cleansed from the live coal of the Altar (with Yeshua Messiah being already offered on the altar). He is now The High Priest after the order of Malkitsedeq. He is YHWH Himself as a Man. This is prophetic scripture even mentioned in NT

Ezk 1:26 And above the expanse over their heads was the likeness of a throne, in appearance like a sapphire stone. And on the likeness of the throne was a likeness as the appearance of a man high above it.

27 And from the appearance of His waist and upward I saw what looked like glowing metal with the appearance of fire all around within it. And from the appearance of His waist and downward I saw what looked like fire, and brightness all around.

28 As the appearance of a rainbow in a cloud on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the brightness all around it. This was the appearance of the likeness of the esteem of יהוה. And when I saw it, I fell on my face, and I heard a voice of One speaking.

Since you don't believe in the NT, I guarantee you that you are not in a position to understand the truth and be saved by our only Saviour Yeshua HaMashyach.

Acts 17:
28 For in him (God) we live, and move, and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also his offspring.’

29 Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold, or silver, or stone, engraved by human art and design.

If we are God's offspring, then we outwardly look like Him. But this is not the end but we must be conformed to His spiritual nature that's in Yeshua HaMashyach.

See how YHWH became our Savior:

Phil 2:
5 Have this in your mind, which was also in Messiah Yeshua,

6 who, existing in the form of God,
did not consider equality with God a thing to be grasped,

7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men.

YHWH in the form of a Man (immortal) took on mortality like Adam was in order to be their Savior.

That's how transcendent God (invisible, unapproachable) sent His Son (in mortal flesh because Israel was after the flesh in unending sacrificial system).

In glory to come, Yeshua will be the fullness of the Deity Bodily in all eternity. One cannot demand to see transcendent God which would be rejection of the will of Transcendent God in Yeshua for He is His Permanent face those glorified saints will see and worship Him.
 

Anthony

Active member
Funny, God's nature is all-knowing, ever-living, perfect, etc. Jesus is none of these.

Seeing that you brought up purification of sins, Numbers 19 discusses this for being defiled for contact with the dead.
This is purely misuse of scriptures like God is not a man that He should... And Yet YHWH in the form of Man. You can make anything of scriptures according to your fancies. That's why we must always look for harmony of scriptures.
 

Anthony

Active member
Pr
God is our Father...

John 20:17
Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them, I ascend unto my Father, and your Father; and to my God, and your God.

God sent Jesus to be the saviour of the world
1 John 4:14
And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son to be the Saviour of the world.

Anthony said:
The Deity of The Son can't be apart from The Father. If God is The Father, The Son is the true Israel, the Firstborn Son.
If The Son is God then He is The Ordinal Last ( Father being The Ordinal First) - The Alpha and The Omega which God is.

Ok, show me where what you wrote is written in the scripture... Don't take from the scripture and put it in your own words, then tell me it is from the scripture...quote me the scripture saying those things.
Prove from the scriptures that the titles of the Father and The Son existed before the beginning of creation.

That's what I'm saying, you need to be the son of Abraham elected to salvation before you understand these titles. You are not qualified as you are taking only part of the gospel accounts leaving behind historical Israel to ever learn the true gospel. Understand the Torah first which must be in your heart.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
This is purely misuse of scriptures like God is not a man that He should... And Yet YHWH in the form of Man.
And yet God has no form and told us to teach that to our children, Deut 4:9,12,15,35, at the revelation at Sinai, as He gave the commandments.

If your gods have the form of a man, they are created themselves. One the form of a man, the other of a woman, and the third?

You can make anything of scriptures according to your fancies.
Physical gods are ridiculed.

1 Kings 18:27
At noon, Elijah began making fun of them. "Pray louder!" he said. "Baal must be a god. Maybe he's daydreaming or using the toilet or traveling somewhere. Or maybe he's asleep, and you have to wake him up."

That's why we must always look for harmony of scriptures.
Yes, you must.
 

Jewjitzu

Well-known member
You don't even understand your OT scriptures. YHWH is revealed as a Man in several scriptures:
He is?

Gen 3:8 And they heard the voice of יהוה Elohim walking about in the garden in the cool of the day, and Aḏam and his wife hid themselves from the presence of יהוה Elohim among the trees of the garden.

How can Invisible God walk in the Garden and Adam hide prom His presence if He weren't in the form of Man?
It doesn't mention God has the form of a man anywhere in Tanakh. As to the verse above, the voice of God was heard traveling, not that God was walking.

Gen 1:26 And Elohim said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness, ....

How can man be created in His image if Elohym is not in the form of a Man.
How can your gods not be created if they themselves have physical form? Which of your godhead is the model for the woman?

The plural 'US' and 'OUR' is to show that Elohym is in two dimensions where He is invisible as well as having the form of a Man
No, the likeness for man's physical form came from the earth. God was speaking to the earth, wind, water, etc., as these are creative forces and elements of nature that act as angels, Psalm 104:3-4.

Gen 32:24 And Yaʽaqoḇ was left alone. And a Man wrestled with him until the breaking of day.
Yes.

.30 And Yaʽaqoḇ called the name of the place Peni’ĕl, “For I have seen Elohim face to face, and my life is preserved.”

Jacob saw Elohym as a Nan face to face.
Man/angels are called God as well, as His representative, Psalm 8:5, Exodus 7:1, Exodus 21:6,22:8-9, etc.

Exod 15: 3 יהוה is a man of battle, יהוה is His Name.

Tell that to Moses why he wrote YHWH was a Man of battle
Because God is likened to one,
Isaiah 42:13.

Isaiah 6: 1 In the year that Sovereign Uzziyahu died, I saw יהוה sitting on a throne, high and lifted up, and the train of His robe filled the Hĕḵal.
Yep, a vision, not reality.

YHWH appeared to Isaiah as The Priest after the order of Malkitsedeq with His robe filling the temple.
Nothing is mentioned of Melchizedek.

Usually, Levitical High Priest would fill the Most Holy Place with the smoke of the incense so as to not look at the Ark of the covenant directly inorder that he might not die.
There's no issue looking at the ark directly.

Here in Isaiah 6, it's the train of His robe filling the Temple - showing that we (as Isaiah) can enter the Most Holy Place having cleansed from the live coal of the Altar (with Yeshua Messiah being already offered on the altar).
No mention of Jesus being offered on the heavenly altar.

He is now The High Priest after the order of Malkitsedeq. He is YHWH Himself as a Man. This is prophetic scripture even mentioned in NT

Ezk 1:26 And above the expanse over their heads was the likeness of a throne, in appearance like a sapphire stone. And on the likeness of the throne was a likeness as the appearance of a man high above it.
Yep. His heavenly glory is likened to that of men on earth, not that He is a man. Solomon sat on YHWH's throne, 1 Chronicles 29:23.

27 And from the appearance of His waist and upward I saw what looked like glowing metal with the appearance of fire all around within it. And from the appearance of His waist and downward I saw what looked like fire, and brightness all around.

28 As the appearance of a rainbow in a cloud on a rainy day, so was the appearance of the brightness all around it. This was the appearance of the likeness of the esteem of יהוה. And when I saw it, I fell on my face, and I heard a voice of One speaking.

Since you don't believe in the NT, I guarantee you that you are not in a position to understand the truth and be saved by our only Saviour Yeshua HaMashyach.

Acts 17:
28 For in him (God) we live, and move, and have our being.’ As some of your own poets have said, ‘For we are also his offspring.’

29 Being then the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold, or silver, or stone, engraved by human art and design.

If we are God's offspring, then we outwardly look like Him. But this is not the end but we must be conformed to His spiritual nature that's in Yeshua HaMashyach.

See how YHWH became our Savior:

Phil 2:
5 Have this in your mind, which was also in Messiah Yeshua,

6 who, existing in the form of God,
did not consider equality with God a thing to be grasped,

7 but emptied himself, taking the form of a servant, being made in the likeness of men.

YHWH in the form of a Man (immortal) took on mortality like Adam was in order to be their Savior.

That's how transcendent God (invisible, unapproachable) sent His Son (in mortal flesh because Israel was after the flesh in unending sacrificial system).

In glory to come, Yeshua will be the fullness of the Deity Bodily in all eternity. One cannot demand to see transcendent God which would be rejection of the will of Transcendent God in Yeshua for He is His Permanent face those glorified saints will see and worship Him.
So, your gods are like the Mormon gods. That's sad.
 
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