Whoever Has Sinned Against Me I Will Blot Out of My Book

Simpletruther

Well-known member
Oh, sorry, I got confused because you pretended that you accepted the verses I cited.

Jesus is God, and is "the same yesterday today and forever". That same God Who said "the one who sinned against Me I will blot out of My Book" also said "you have a few names that haven't soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in White for they are worthy... and I will never blot their name out of the Book of Life."
So did you also plan on calling into question God's own willingness to keep His Word and blot simmers out from His Book as your strategy (as some have)? Maybe you would like to take a crack at proving He doesn't consider any of His people to be sinful?
I didn’t pretend anything. That is obnoxious of you. Suppose someone accused you of pretending every time you didn’t take a scripture with as literally written.. Would you find I it obnoxious?

I don’t really know what it means. But it would contradict many clear scriptures to claim it means believers can be forever lost.

And it’s an absurd notion to think of God blotting sinners out and back in every 5 seconds when they repent. Which tells me it should not be taken at simple literal face value, it has other meaning.
 

Daniel.

Member
I didn’t pretend anything. That is obnoxious of you. Suppose someone accused you of pretending every time you didn’t take a scripture with as literally written.. Would you find I it obnoxious?

I don’t really know what it means. But it would contradict many clear scriptures to claim it means believers can be forever lost.

And it’s an absurd notion to think of God blotting sinners out and back in every 5 seconds when they repent. Which tells me it should not be taken at simple literal face value, it has other meaning.
No one who reads the context thinks Christians are blotted out every time they sin. The point is simply that no less than God says there are names in His Book that He will blot out. It doesn't matter what kind of ink is used. Get that straight. Names will be blotted out. Who? Those who sinned against Him, who soiled their garments--they've denied Him in their deeds, thus will be denied by Christ before the Father snd His Holy angels not confessed.
 

Simpletruther

Well-known member
No one who reads the context thinks Christians are blotted out every time they sin. The point is simply that no less than God says there are names in His Book that He will blot out. It doesn't matter what kind of ink is used. Get that straight. Names will be blotted out. Who? Those who sinned against Him, who soiled their garments--they've denied Him in their deeds, thus will be denied by Christ before the Father snd His Holy angels not confessed.
Oh so you are not taking it literally either. But you insult me for not taking it literally.
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
Those who sinned against Him, who soiled their garments--they've denied Him in their deeds, thus will be denied by Christ before the Father snd His Holy angels not confessed.

If they soiled their own garments, then they are not wearing the righteousness of Christ, and therefore never saved to begin with.
 

Daniel.

Member
Oh so you are not taking it literally either. But you insult me for not taking it literally.
1. You're missing the point : if there are names in the Book that get blotted out AT ALL it doesn't matter what the precise circumstances are. How did those names get in the Book in the first place?

2. No, I do take the statements literally--in their context.

That's why I included the citation from Hebrews : "if we go on sinning willfully" describes exactly what the Jews had been doing in the context, and it must have been what Jesus had been condemning some of those at the Church of Sardis for.

Obviously, it doesn't mean "if we sin once", since that would deny the truth that God is merciful.
 

Simpletruther

Well-known member
1. You're missing the point : if there are names in the Book that get blotted out AT ALL it doesn't matter what the precise circumstances are. How did those names get in the Book in the first place?

2. No, I do take the statements literally--in their context.

That's why I included the citation from Hebrews : "if we go on sinning willfully" describes exactly what the Jews had been doing in the context, and it must have been what Jesus had been condemning some of those at the Church of Sardis for.

Obviously, it doesn't mean "if we sin once", since that would deny the truth that God is merciful.
So you do not ever sin willfully?
 

Daniel.

Member
So you do not ever sin willfully?
"Go on sinning willfully" refers to to the same thing as Ro 8:12, 13 where it says "if you live after the flesh you will die but if by the Spirit you mortify the deeds of the flesh you will live". It's not talking about someone who lives for God's glory but sometimes fails--it's talking about someone for whom sin is the rule rather than the exception.

Realize what you're doing, though : you're trying to debate against the author of Hebrews. You're saying, "Oh really? Is that so? There is no sacrifice for those who go on sinning willfully? Well, pray tell, who could even qualify for this? They don't exist!" That is what you guys do when you encounter Scripture you don't like. You dare to try to nullify it! I simply believe the author!
 

Simpletruther

Well-known member
"Go on sinning willfully" refers to to the same thing as Ro 8:12, 13 where it says "if you live after the flesh you will die but if by the Spirit you mortify the deeds of the flesh you will live". It's not talking about someone who lives for God's glory but sometimes fails--it's talking about someone for whom sin is the rule rather than the exception.

Realize what you're doing, though : you're trying to debate against the author of Hebrews. You're saying, "Oh really? Is that so? There is no sacrifice for those who go on sinning willfully? Well, pray tell, who could even qualify for this? They don't exist!" That is what you guys do when you encounter Scripture you don't like. You dare to try to nullify it! I simply believe the author!
So now you have added to your interpretation. The one who sins isn’t just “willfully” sinning, it’s doing so the bm
majority of the time. I see. No I think you just misunderstand what is being taught.
 

Daniel.

Member
So now you have added to your interpretation. The one who sins isn’t just “willfully” sinning, it’s doing so the bm
majority of the time. I see. No I think you just misunderstand what is being taught.
Yes, whereas you Edit per mod what God asserts (He will blot names out of His book--those who sinned against Him), thus "calling God a liar", I accept what God says.

Anything else?

Do not misrepresent what another poster has said. If you think it is, provide the quote.
 
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Theo1689

Well-known member
Realize what you're doing, though : you're trying to debate against the author of Hebrews.

Oh, so YOU wrote Hebrews?
You're the one he's debating, after all...

You're saying, "Oh really? Is that so?

Yes, he's saying that about YOUR claim, not about what Hebrews actually says.
Who died and made you the infallible interpreter of Scripture?
 
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Simpletruther

Well-known member
Yes, whereas you baselessly disbelieve what God asserts (He will blot names out of His book--those who sinned against Him), thus "calling God a liar", I accept what God says.

Anything else?
Yes, whereas you baselessly disbelieve what God asserts (He will blot names out of His book--those who sinned against Him), thus "calling God a liar", I accept what God says.

Anything else?
It seems it is you that baselessy disbelieves what Go d asserts that no one can loose their salvation thus “calling God a liar”. I accept what God says.

I guess you like the trash talk so...when in Rome....
 

Daniel.

Member
It seems it is you that baselessy disbelieves what Go d asserts that no one can loose their salvation thus “calling God a liar”. I accept what God says.
I don't interpret those verses the same way you do.

I believe that God blots names out of His Book AND I believe "because you have kept My Word... I will keep you" (those who trust God will never be put to shame--but those who disbelieve, and those who do not endure in faith (both in confession and in deed Ro 8:12, 13, 14: 23) will be cut off Jn 15:6, Gal 5:4, Ro 11:17-22, etc).
 

Theo1689

Well-known member
I don't interpret those verses the same way you do.

So when he disagrees with your interpretation, he gets accused of "calling God a liar".
But when YOU disagree with HIS interpretation, it's merely "I don't interpret those verses the same way you do."

Nice double standard you've got there...
 

Simpletruther

Well-known member
I don't interpret those verses the same way you do.

I believe that God blots names out of His Book AND I believe "because you have kept My Word... I will keep you" (those who trust God will never be put to shame--but those who disbelieve, and those who do not endure in faith (both in confession and in deed Ro 8:12, 13, 14: 23) will be cut off Jn 15:6, Gal 5:4, Ro 11:17-22, etc).
And I don’t interpret the way you do.
 

Daniel.

Member
And I don’t interpret the way you do.
That much I have gathered.

Now that we're back to square one, you get a chance to explain to everyone what you do with "No, Moses, I will not blot you out of My Book; whoever has sinned against Me I will blot out of My Book" (this obviously does not mean Moses has never sinned, so don't be so ridiculous) and "[only those] who have not soiled their garments... will walk with Me in White for they are worthy, and I will never blot their names out of My Book [the others--the ones who have soiled their garments--will be blotted out]". That's the entire purpose of this thread lol
 

Howie

Well-known member
Yet another dynamic of life before the God of Scripture for which Calvinists are powerless to account.

Exodus 32
33The LORD replied to Moses, “Whoever has sinned against Me I will blot out of My book."

Revelation 3
4Yet you have still a few names in Sardis, people who have not soiled their garments, and they will walk with me in white, for they are worthy. 5The one who conquers will be clothed thus in white garments, and I will never blot his name out of the book of life. I will confess his name before my Father and before his angels.

2 Timothy 2
12...if we endure,
we will also reign with Him
[but]
if we [believers] deny Him,
He will also deny us...

1 Timothy 5
8But if anyone does not provide for his relatives, and especially for members of his household, he has denied the faith and is worse than an unbeliever.

So continuous sin is tantamount to a denial of the faith (Christ)--hence, only the "worthy" will walk with Christ in white, but the Christians who persist in sin (who have "soiled their garments") will be blotted out of God's book and Jesus will deny them before God and the angels. What do you know? That's the same message as Hebrews 10!

Hebrews 3
7Therefore, as the Holy Spirit says,
“Today, if you hear his voice,
8do not harden your hearts as in the rebellion,
on the day of testing in the wilderness
[the same content as Paul's 1 Corinthians 10 warning]
9where your fathers put me to the test
and saw my works for forty years.
10Therefore I was provoked with that generation,
and said, ‘They always go astray in their heart;
they have not known my ways.’
11As I swore in my wrath,
‘They shall not enter my rest.’”
12Take care, brothers, lest there be in any of you an evil, unbelieving heart, leading you to fall away from the living God. 13But exhort one another every day, as long as it is called “today,” that none of you may be hardened by the deceitfulness of sin.
Hebrews 10
26If we deliberately go on sinning after we have received the knowledge of the truth, no further sacrifice for sins remains, 27but only a fearful expectation of judgment and of raging fire that will consume all adversaries. 28Anyone who rejected the law of Moses died without mercy on the testimony of two or three witnesses. 29How much more severely do you think one deserves to be punished who has trampled on the Son of God, profaned the blood of the covenant that sanctified him, and insulted the Spirit of grace?
30For we know Him who said, “Vengeance is Mine; I will repay,”f and again, “The Lord will judge His people.”g 31It is a fearful thing to fall into the hands of the living God.
...
37For, “Yet a little while, and the coming one will come and will not delay; 38but my righteous one shall live by faith, and if he shrinks back, my soul has no pleasure in him.” 39But we are not of those who shrink back and are destroyed, but of those who have faith and preserve their souls.

That's right--some of God's righteous one (the one who is righteous by faith) can "fall away", "shrink back" to destruction.
I'm struck by the total absence of exegetical support you have not provided.

It seems that as Joe Biden would have me do, you too would have me accept, out of hand, that you know what you're talking about ... doesn't work that way.

I laugh in your OP's general direction. 😆
 

Daniel.

Member
I'm struck by the total absence of exegetical support you have not provided.

It seems that as Joe Biden would have me do, you too would have me accept, out of hand, that you know what you're talking about ... doesn't work that way.

I laugh in your OP's general direction. 😆
You're right : I have not provided an absence of exegetical support.
"I laugh in the general direction" of your "total absence of [English skills] you have not provided."

So you have no response. Not surprised.

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Simpletruther

Well-known member
That much I have gathered.

Now that we're back to square one, you get a chance to explain to everyone how you interpret "the one who has sinned against Me I will blot out of My Book" and "[only those] who have not soiled their garments... will walk with Me in White for they are worthy, and I will never blot their names out of My Book [the others will be blotted out]". That's the entire purpose of this thread lol
I am not sure, I have not studied this much. But whatever it means it can’t be a believer loosing salvation.

Perhaps this is another book of record and not the book of life.
 

Daniel.

Member
I am not sure, I have not studied this much. But whatever it means it can’t be a believer loosing salvation.

Perhaps this is another book of record and not the book of life.
Then you shouldn't be giving responses.

Think about what you have to say, then say it.
 
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