Who's Decision?

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Eightcrackers

Well-known member
The more direct question would be

if a teacher set up a system that said "one student acts up, all are punished", would you consider that fair?

A consistent Christian must say "yes".
Which is why no Christian in here would answer it.
 
T

Tercon

Well-known member
Eightcrackers said:
The more direct question would be

if a teacher set up a system that said "one student acts up, all are punished", would you consider that fair?

A consistent Christian must say "yes".
Which is why no Christian in here would answer it.
Click to expand...

No. That's Marxist nonsense and not Christianity.
 
E

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
CrowCross said:
My bible doesn't say that.
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Yahweh's propaganda doesn't depict the Tree of Knowledge as entrapment on his part?
That's hardly a surprise.
Now there was some Satanic deception...something you're part of.
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The idea that the serpent was Satan is tenuous, at best - a reference to Satan being "the ancient serpent" supports it, but "serpent" was a common insult at the time (being applied to the Pharisees in Matt 23:33, for example).
 
CrowCross

CrowCross

Super Member
Eightcrackers said:
Yahweh's propaganda doesn't depict the Tree of Knowledge as entrapment on his part?
That's hardly a surprise.

The idea that the serpent was Satan is tenuous, at best - a reference to Satan being "the ancient serpent" supports it, but "serpent" was a common insult at the time (being applied to the Pharisees in Matt 23:33, for example).
Click to expand...
really?

And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
 
E

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
CrowCross said:
really?

And the great dragon was thrown down, that ancient serpent, who is called the devil and Satan, the deceiver of the whole world—he was thrown down to the earth, and his angels were thrown down with him.
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And? What about this, besides the already-covered "serpent" insult, locks him to being the serpent of the Garden?
 
SteveB

SteveB

Well-known member
treeplanter said:
This is not an answer, Steve!
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🤣🤦🏾‍♂️
I'd say that you're gravely mistaken. Perhaps even lack the necessary tools to understand.

It'd be more honest for you to say that you didn't like the answer, and disagree with it.
treeplanter said:
I will ask again:
How can I, an imperfect human being, know perfect goodness and perfect justice?
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You're the one who keeps pushing that you have a clue what perfect goodness and justice are.
Now you've admitted that you don't actually know what they are, you just think they'd include your ideas.

I'd say that makes you a fraud.

treeplanter said:
What is the lie?
That perfect goodness and perfect justice cannot exist apart from the concept of fairness?
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The lie is that you think you know what any of these things are.


treeplanter said:
I asked you to tell me where and when I defended wickedness and injustice
I asked you to tell me when and where I condemned the righteous and the just

I'm still waiting, Steve!
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I'm still waiting for you to provide a definition for perfect goodness, justice and now fairness.

So, when you figure it out, post the definitions, the source from which you have developed your ideas, and then we can discuss it further, with an actual understanding, instead of just your whinings.
 
treeplanter

treeplanter

Well-known member
SteveB said:
🤣🤦🏾‍♂️
I'd say that you're gravely mistaken. Perhaps even lack the necessary tools to understand.
Click to expand...
I would submit that no human being can know precisely what perfect goodness and perfect justice actually look like because no human being is perfect

SteveB said:
You're the one who keeps pushing that you have a clue what perfect goodness and justice are.
Click to expand...
You must have me confused with another poster, Steve

I'm the one who keeps pushing that God is unworthy of our devotion because He is anything but perfectly good and just

I'm also the one who freely admits to not knowing what perfect goodness and justice fully entails
{See above!}

SteveB said:
I'm still waiting for you to provide a definition for perfect goodness, justice and now fairness.
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Then you're going to be waiting for some time

As I have already explained, I don't know what exactly constitutes perfect goodness and justice

What I do know is that:
1. God, per His actions as described in scripture, is an absolutely miserable excuse for perfect goodness and justice
2. Perfect goodness and justice incorporates the concept of fairness
 
SteveB

SteveB

Well-known member
treeplanter said:
I would submit that no human being can know precisely what perfect goodness and perfect justice actually look like because no human being is perfect
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👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

Bingo! Congratulations!
You have just hit the nail on the head!

YHVH however does, and he's presented what they are, in the bible.

treeplanter said:
You must have me confused with another poster, Steve
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Nope. You've been quite clear all along. In all honesty, I'm disappointed you're backpedaling so much!
Just own it Tree. Be proud of your ignorance.

treeplanter said:
I'm the one who keeps pushing that God is unworthy of our devotion because He is anything but perfectly good and just
Click to expand...
Ironically, you'd have to know what perfect goodness, and justice are, and above you admitted to the long known fact among bible believers that there's no human who does know what they are.

treeplanter said:
I'm also the one who freely admits to not knowing what perfect goodness and justice fully entails
{See above!}
Click to expand...
And yet you repeat your rant----
treeplanter said:
I'm the one who keeps pushing that God is unworthy of our devotion because He is anything but perfectly good and just
Click to expand...

treeplanter said:
Then you're going to be waiting for some time
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Then I'd say you'd better drop your rant. Because if you're not capable of presenting a definition that is valid, correct, accurate and true, then you're a fraud.


treeplanter said:
As I have already explained, I don't know what exactly constitutes perfect goodness and justice

What I do know is that:
1. God, per His actions as described in scripture, is an absolutely miserable excuse for perfect goodness and justice
2. Perfect goodness and justice incorporates the concept of fairness
Click to expand...
Which means that you claim to have a source to know what perfect goodness and justice and fairness are.
And since you
treeplanter said:
As I have already explained, I don't know what exactly constitutes perfect goodness and justice
Click to expand...

Your rant is a lie, based on your beliefs, and not on truth, or fact.
 
treeplanter

treeplanter

Well-known member
SteveB said:
👏👏👏👏👏👏👏

Bingo! Congratulations!
You have just hit the nail on the head!

YHVH however does, and he's presented what they are, in the bible.


Nope. You've been quite clear all along. In all honesty, I'm disappointed you're backpedaling so much!
Just own it Tree. Be proud of your ignorance.


Ironically, you'd have to know what perfect goodness, and justice are, and above you admitted to the long known fact among bible believers that there's no human who does know what they are.


And yet you repeat your rant----



Then I'd say you'd better drop your rant. Because if you're not capable of presenting a definition that is valid, correct, accurate and true, then you're a fraud.



Which means that you claim to have a source to know what perfect goodness and justice and fairness are.
And since you


Your rant is a lie, based on your beliefs, and not on truth, or fact.
Click to expand...
You got me, Steve!

You win
I cannot describe either perfect goodness or perfect justice
I must, therefore, be some sort of Satanist, right?


Can we move on, now?

Will you please explain to me how perfect goodness and perfect justice can exist without incorporating the concept of fairness?

Think of it this way, Steve, I may not know how to prepare a gourmet meal, but I certainly know a bad meal when I encounter one

By this same token, I may not know what constitutes perfect goodness and justice, but I can certainly recognize when so-called goodness and justice fall short of perfection!


Please, answer my question

How can perfect goodness and perfect justice exist apart from the concept of fairness?
 
E

Eightcrackers

Well-known member
Tercon said:
I am not punished for what "Adam (and Eve's)", but you are. God offers redemption.
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To continue the analogy,

the teacher punishes all students if one acts up... but selects one perfect, blameless student (who happens to be the teacher's son) that will take on all the punishment for those students that are prepared to accept the deal, be grateful, and supplicate.

And you think this makes the system more fair.
 
Furion

Furion

Well-known member
treeplanter said:
You got me, Steve!

You win
I cannot describe either perfect goodness or perfect justice
I must, therefore, be some sort of Satanist, right?
Click to expand...
No, just an atheist who declares things on the basis of ignorance, complaining about some conclusion you've drawn from inside your ignorance.
 
treeplanter

treeplanter

Well-known member
Furion said:
No, just an atheist who declares things on the basis of ignorance, complaining about some conclusion you've drawn from inside your ignorance.
Click to expand...
God consciously and purposefully inflicts needless harm upon us

To consciously and purposefully inflict needless harm upon others is immoral

How is this ignorant?
 
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