WHOSE RIGHTEOUS?

balshan

Well-known member
Rom 4:6

6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

Rom 4:23+

23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.

We know from this that imputed righteousness does not come from works and we are not righteous, so whose righteousness is imputed? Notice the word is imputed and not infused.

I don't want word salad, or word games. I just want the name of the person/deity whose righteousness is imputed. It is a simple question to answer and not one RC has given a clear defined answer to this question.
 

dingoling.

Well-known member
Rom 4:6

6 just as David also describes the blessedness of the man to whom God imputes righteousness apart from works:

Rom 4:23+


23 Now it was not written for his sake alone that it was imputed to him, 24 but also for us. It shall be imputed to us who believe in Him who raised up Jesus our Lord from the dead, 25 who was delivered up because of our offenses, and was raised because of our justification.

We know from this that imputed righteousness does not come from works and we are not righteous, so whose righteousness is imputed? Notice the word is imputed and not infused.

I don't want word salad, or word games. I just want the name of the person/deity whose righteousness is imputed. It is a simple question to answer and not one RC has given a clear defined answer to this question.

Here is the entire passage:

Romans 4:3-8, "For what does the scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” Now to one who works, wages are not reckoned as a gift but as something due. 5But to one who without works trusts him who justifies the ungodly, such faith is reckoned as righteousness. So also David speaks of the blessedness of those to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the one against whom the Lord will not reckon sin.”

Reckoned/imputed as righteousness is about the forgiveness of sins. No one's righteousness is imputed to us.
 

balshan

Well-known member
Here is the entire passage:

Romans 4:3-8, "For what does the scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” Now to one who works, wages are not reckoned as a gift but as something due. 5But to one who without works trusts him who justifies the ungodly, such faith is reckoned as righteousness. So also David speaks of the blessedness of those to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the one against whom the Lord will not reckon sin.”

Reckoned/imputed as righteousness is about the forgiveness of sins. No one's righteousness is imputed to us.
Strong's Concordance
ellogeó: to charge to one's account, impute
Original Word: ἐλλογέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: ellogeó
Phonetic Spelling: (el-log-eh'-o)
Definition: to charge to one's account, impute
Usage: I charge to, put to one's account, impute.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from en and logos (in the sense of account, reckoning)
Definition
to charge to one's account, impute
NASB Translation
charge...to...account (1), imputed (1).

You have one big fat hole in your logic. Sins had to be accounted for.

Well our sins are only forgiven because Jesus paid the price, so whose righteousness. You version makes Christ's death totally unnecessary.

Eph 1:7 by the way the him is Jesus in this verse

In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

roms 6:23

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1Peter 1:18-19

Knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.

1 Cor 6:20

For you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body

It seems to me that Jesus paid the price, he ransomed us, imputed/reckoned etc for us. Without Him you have nothing at all.

 

dingoling.

Well-known member
Strong's Concordance
ellogeó: to charge to one's account, impute
Original Word: ἐλλογέω
Part of Speech: Verb
Transliteration: ellogeó
Phonetic Spelling: (el-log-eh'-o)
Definition: to charge to one's account, impute
Usage: I charge to, put to one's account, impute.
NAS Exhaustive Concordance
Word Origin
from en and logos (in the sense of account, reckoning)
Definition
to charge to one's account, impute
NASB Translation
charge...to...account (1), imputed (1).

You have one big fat hole in your logic. Sins had to be accounted for.

Well our sins are only forgiven because Jesus paid the price, so whose righteousness. You version makes Christ's death totally unnecessary.

Eph 1:7 by the way the him is Jesus in this verse

In him we have redemption through his blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of his grace,

roms 6:23

For the wages of sin is death, but the free gift of God is eternal life in Christ Jesus our Lord.

1Peter 1:18-19

Knowing that you were ransomed from the futile ways inherited from your forefathers, not with perishable things such as silver or gold, but with the precious blood of Christ, like that of a lamb without blemish or spot.

1 Cor 6:20


For you were bought with a price. So glorify God in your body

It seems to me that Jesus paid the price, he ransomed us, imputed/reckoned etc for us. Without Him you have nothing at all.

Reckoned as righteousness means that our sins our forgiven. It doesn't mean that the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us. That is a false doctrine.
 

balshan

Well-known member
Reckoned as righteousness means that our sins our forgiven. It doesn't mean that the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us. That is a false doctrine.
Scripture needs to be read as a whole. Reckon means to settle accounts, our accounts with God cannot be settled by us. Jesus did the reckoning for us, so reckoned as righteousness is not ours but His.
 

dingoling.

Well-known member
Scripture needs to be read as a whole. Reckon means to settle accounts, our accounts with God cannot be settled by us. Jesus did the reckoning for us, so reckoned as righteousness is not ours but His.
Yes, our sins are forgiven because of what Jesus did for us, so we are reckoned as righteous.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
... It doesn't mean that the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us. That is a false doctrine.

From where does righteousness come?
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
 

Bonnie

Super Member
Here is the entire passage:

Romans 4:3-8, "For what does the scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” Now to one who works, wages are not reckoned as a gift but as something due. 5But to one who without works trusts him who justifies the ungodly, such faith is reckoned as righteousness. So also David speaks of the blessedness of those to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the one against whom the Lord will not reckon sin.”

Reckoned/imputed as righteousness is about the forgiveness of sins. No one's righteousness is imputed to us.
But what do these verses say is imputed/reckoned to us as righteousness? I bolded it.

Care to tell us?
 
Last edited:

dingoling.

Well-known member
So we are reckoned with whose righteousness.. Yes we are vindicated, sins wiped out by Jesus' righteousness not ours.
Why do you keep on insisting that we are imputed with someone's righteousness when scripture doesn't say anything about being imputed with anyone's righteousness?
 

dingoling.

Well-known member
But what do these verses say is imputed/reckoned to us as righteousness? I bolded it.

Care to tell us?
They don't say that we that anything is imputed to us, it says that are sins are forgiven.

In Psalms 32 David confessed his sins and God forgave him of his sins, so David, at the moment, is reckoned as righteous. If David later commits another sin then David is needs to confess his sin again.
 

dingoling.

Well-known member
From where does righteousness come?
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
From where does righteousness come? When God forgives us our sins then we are righteous.
 

PeanutGallery

Well-known member
From where does righteousness come?
Rom 5:17 For if by one man's offence death reigned by one; much more they which receive abundance of grace and of the gift of righteousness shall reign in life by one, Jesus Christ.)
Php 3:9 And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
From where does righteousness come? When God forgives us our sins then we are righteous.
From whom does the gift of righteousness come?
 

Our Lord's God

Well-known member
Here is the entire passage:

Romans 4:3-8, "For what does the scripture say? “Abraham believed God, and it was reckoned to him as righteousness.” Now to one who works, wages are not reckoned as a gift but as something due. 5But to one who without works trusts him who justifies the ungodly, such faith is reckoned as righteousness. So also David speaks of the blessedness of those to whom God reckons righteousness apart from works: “Blessed are those whose iniquities are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; blessed is the one against whom the Lord will not reckon sin.”

Reckoned/imputed as righteousness is about the forgiveness of sins. No one's righteousness is imputed to us.

Having your sins forgiven doesn't result in righteousness. Having your sins forgiven only brings you from the negative to ZERO
 

Bonnie

Super Member
They don't say that we that anything is imputed to us, it says that are sins are forgiven.

Yes, it does say WHAT is imputed/reckoned to us as righteousness. Open your eyes!
In Psalms 32 David confessed his sins and God forgave him of his sins, so David, at the moment, is reckoned as righteous. If David later commits another sin then David is needs to confess his sin again.
So what? Paul still said something is reckoned/imputed to us as righteousness--the same thing that was imputed/reckoned to Abraham as righteousness....what is it, ding?
 

dingoling.

Well-known member
That is not what Romans 4 says. Paul says SOMETHING is reckoned/imputed to us as righteous--what did Pa u l say?
Yes it is what Romans 4 says. Romans 4 does not say that the righteousness of Christ is imputed to us. If David had sinned after confessing his sins to God in Psalm 32 he would have to confess his sins again and it would again be reckoned to him as righteousness.
 
Top