Meaning the same thing, they don't mean anything else. In accounting which reckon really is. If I have outgoings (sin) then to balance my books I must have incoming (righteousness) those incomings are reckoned against the outgoings. Whose incomings are we getting to wipe out the outgoings? Whose righteousness are we getting to wipe out our sins?
WHOSE RIGHTEOUS?
- Thread starter balshan
- Start date
A new day
Super Member
That's because your reading from a rc printed bible. However, using "infused" the way that the rcc uses it, implies that with each mass, rc's become divine, in other words, each person becomes a god in their own eyes.
No human can ever become or take on divinity. Only God is divine, because He was never created. HE is the Creator and sustainer of everything in heaven and on earth. There is no one else like God. Everything is sustained by HIM. We will always be creation, even after entering heaven. We humans are created beings.
God's laws are the absolute standard for all human character, conscience, conduct, and word. God is the ultimate lawgiver. Being righteous then means being right in the eyes of God by HIS standards. NOT man's.
But the fact of the matter is this: when we try to gain God’s blessing and salvation by keeping his laws we always end up under his anger, for we always fail to keep them. The only way we can keep from breaking laws is not to have any to break! So God’s blessings are given to us by faith, as a free gift; we are certain to get them whether or not we follow Jewish customs if we have faith like Abraham’s
God will accept all people in every nation who trust God as Abraham did. And faith means trusting God completely. We are declared as being right in God's eye's when we trust in Him alone and not in ourselves or anyone else.
Following robotic and routine rituals never change our character, conscience, conduct, and word. They only make us proud. Scripture tells us that we need to be "born again from above".
Being born again can NOT be done by “being good enough” and trying to keep his laws, or follow a set of rituals because the more you try these ways, you see that you can't keep God's standard of perfection. God says he will accept and acquit us—declare us “not guilty”—if we trust Jesus Christ to take away our sins. And we all can be saved in this same way, by coming to Christ, no matter who we are or what we have been like.
dingoling.
Well-known member
It is not clear that righteousness is imputed to us in the way you are teaching it.
dingoling.
Well-known member
It's your doctrine. It is your burden to prove it, not ours.
dingoling.
Well-known member
It is not blindness, it is not in scripture. I am constantly asked who righteousness is it. I am asked because scripture doesn't say. That is not blindness.
Really then what way? You have avoided answering clearly, you do not state what you mean. You have failed to show why my answer is unclear. I am not teaching it, this is a discussion thread and you fail to discuss whose righteousness it is, how it is imputed. You have claimed it means reckoned which is an accounting term, this means righteousness must come from somewhere. You claim that righteousness is about removing/forgiveness of sin. Then where does said righteousness come from, in other words we are back to the question whose righteousness is it.
This is what we do know:
1. righteousness is imputed. Roms 4
2. we do not become righteous from works. Roms 4
3. Jesus is righteous -
Romans 1:7
For in it the righteousness of God is revealed from faith to faith; as it is written, “But the righteous man shall live by faith.”
4. We become righteousness of God in Him (Jesus).
2 Cor 5:21
He made Him who knew no sin to be sin on our behalf, so that we might become the righteousness of God in Him.
5. Righteousness comes from only one source.
1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.
So righteousness is of God, is imputed, is from faith and not works, has one source only, it cleanses us from sin.
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Wrong in a discussion if you do not agree it is your burden to prove where it is wrong. You have failed to defend your belief. Peter said you need to be able to defend your faith. You have failed.
It is clearly in scripture if you read scripture as a whole but you don't. No it is in scripture it is clear to those who can see whose righteousness it is, you are asked because you just say it is not Jesus. If not Jesus then whose is it, the righteousness comes from somewhere and it has only one source. You can earn it, it does not come from works. You have big holes in your teachings that you fail to fill in.
dingoling.
Well-known member
Scripture tells us how righteousness is imputed to us.
Hebrews 8:8-12, "God finds fault with them when he says: “The days are surely coming, says the Lord, when I will establish a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah; not like the covenant that I made with their ancestors, on the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; for they did not continue in my covenant, and so I had no concern for them, says the Lord. This is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says the Lord: I will put my laws in their minds, and write them on their hearts, and I will be their God, and they shall be my people. And they shall not teach one another or say to each other, ‘Know the Lord,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest. For I will be merciful toward their iniquities, and I will remember their sins no more.”
dingoling.
Well-known member
You are the one trying to convince us that the doctrine is correct. Nothing anyone has posted here is a convincing argument.
There is nowhere in scripture that says we have been imputed with the righteousness of Christ. Jesus never said anything about it. Peter never mentions it. John doesn't mention it. The writer of Hebrews doesn't mention it.
Peter says, "The Lord is not slow about his promise, as some think of slowness, but is patient with you, not wanting any to perish, but all to come to repentance. But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a loud noise, and the elements will be dissolved with fire, and the earth and everything that is done on it will be disclosed.
Since all these things are to be dissolved in this way, what sort of persons ought you to be in leading lives of holiness and godliness, waiting for and hastening the coming of the day of God, because of which the heavens will be set ablaze and dissolved, and the elements will melt with fire? But, in accordance with his promise, we wait for new heavens and a new earth, where righteousness is at home. Therefore, beloved, while you are waiting for these things, strive to be found by him at peace, without spot or blemish;"
What Peter doesn't say, no any other apostle, - don't worry about what is going to happen because we have been imputed with the righteousness of Christ.
Also if your teaching is correct - if we have been imputed with the righteousness of Christ, a one time imputed righteousness at the time of conversion and it is this righteousness that we stand before God on then:
- can that imputed righteousness ever be taken away?
- if it can not be taken away then can we live our lives here however we want? It doesn't matter how much sin we commit because we have been imputed with righteousness of Christ?
Hmm problem for you unless you are Jewish you do not belong to the House of Israel or Judah. As you say it is what scripture says. The RCC does not replace Israel, no matter what it teaches.
Also wrong once again you ignore the cross and whose righteousness it is.
dingoling.
Well-known member
It is a discretion of the NC. We are under the NC.
Really I am not trying to convince you at all. Obviously are to make an argumentative discussion was missing from your school curriculum. You are trying to convice us about what you believe and we are wrong then you must reveal where we are wrong and where you are right. You do not do this, you offer no evidence, no scriptural support at all for your beliefs, you cannot answer simple questions.
Romans 4 clearly says we are imputed with righteousness, other verses tell us this righteousness comes from Jesus. You just ignore it and make out scripture does not say it without explaining your point.
The Peter passage has no relevance to the topic, seems you think if you throw it up it covers up the fact that you cannot defend you beliefs as Peter stated.
Your para 3 and 4 are making no sense whatsoever. I have no clues what that word jumble is trying to say.
Why would anyone want the imputed righteousness taken away? That makes no sense, much like this whole response of yours.
Why if you are a bondservant to Jesus would you want to return to the pig sty? I have never been one even when unsaved for sexual immorality, murder, stealing, lying etc. So I have no understanding of what point you are trying to make.
RCs seem to think they can be baptised and live how they like that is why they have their sacraments, confession, last rites, purgatory to clean them up all the time. I mean you demand others be holy, knowing you all fail to be holy and that is why you have added those things to make you clean. Then you eat with sexually immoral leaders against scripture 1 Cor 5:11, going against scripture is breaking commandments.
The NC does not make you part of the nation of Israel, that is a false claim. We become part of the commonwealth of Israel, there is a difference. But we are all equal under the NC.
Eph 2:12+
12 That at that time ye were without Christ, being aliens from the commonwealth of Israel, and strangers from the covenants of promise, having no hope, and without God in the world:
13 But now in Christ Jesus ye who sometimes were far off are made nigh by the blood of Christ.
pilgrim
Well-known member
And that would be an outright abuse of God's mercy.
dingoling.
Well-known member
They have serious problems with their imputed righteousness of Christ doctrine.
Which is what your priests do. They did not expose sin. They knew what others were doing and hide it, that makes them part of the sin. Others abused and molested children, others raped nuns and others have children outside marriage This is just the recent scandals.
These scandals are nothing new it has been happening for centuries and hidden up.
No it is not non RCs who have serious problems, it is rcs who ignore whose righteousness saves us.
Yep there is a word for people who demand of others what they do not do themselves. It is in scripture and it is Jesus' words. Making out others believe you can go around sinning, when that is what RCs do means that the definition of that word. HMM why do RCs need communion to forgive venial sins, why the need for confession, last rites, purgatory if you are going around holy, perfect little humans.
No non rcs thinks you can go around deliberately sinning and disobeying God. That is bearing false witness.
dingoling.
Well-known member
bluedog1us
Well-known member
Isaiah 61:10 NKJV — I will greatly rejoice in the LORD, My soul shall be joyful in my God; For He has clothed me with the garments of salvation, He has covered me with the robe of righteousness, As a bridegroom decks himself with ornaments, And as a bride adorns herself with her jewels.