Whose the Boss?

D

dingoling.

Well-known member
When there are disagreements among Christians on issues concerning the Christian faith the whose the boss, i.e. who has the authority to settle the issues?

It is obvious from scripture and history that the authority is the church - the Pope, Magisterium, church councils. We see this in scripture during the first church council in Jerusalem over this issue of circumcision of the Gentile believers. As other issues came up throughout the years we see the resolved in the same manor all the way up until around the 11th century when Christians could not reach an agreement on certain issues. The eastern, mostly Greek speaking Christians didn't accept the authority of the Pope.... So now how are the issues settled - division. Fast forward a few centuries and we have the Christians again not reaching agreement on certain issues and again we have divisions. Fast forward today and what to we have - divisions galore. Catholics not agreeing with the Pope/Magisterium, Orthodox not agreeing with each other and not agreeing with the Catholic church and nCCs not agreeing with Catholics, Orthodox and other nCCs. The only thing that we seem to be "one" about is our disagreements.

Jesus wanted us to be one, "As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me."

The world is laughing at as because we are so divided. We are definitely not conveying to an unbelieving world that God sent Jesus.

The Pope/Magisterium didn't work. Scripture alone didn't work. So what will work?
 
dingoling. said:
When there are disagreements among Christians on issues concerning the Christian faith the whose the boss, i.e. who has the authority to settle the issues?

It is obvious from scripture and history that the authority is the church - the Pope, Magisterium, church councils. We see this in scripture during the first church council in Jerusalem over this issue of circumcision of the Gentile believers. As other issues came up throughout the years we see the resolved in the same manor all the way up until around the 11th century when Christians could not reach an agreement on certain issues. The eastern, mostly Greek speaking Christians didn't accept the authority of the Pope.... So now how are the issues settled - division. Fast forward a few centuries and we have the Christians again not reaching agreement on certain issues and again we have divisions. Fast forward today and what to we have - divisions galore. Catholics not agreeing with the Pope/Magisterium, Orthodox not agreeing with each other and not agreeing with the Catholic church and nCCs not agreeing with Catholics, Orthodox and other nCCs. The only thing that we seem to be "one" about is our disagreements.

Jesus wanted us to be one, "As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me."

The world is laughing at as because we are so divided. We are definitely not conveying to an unbelieving world that God sent Jesus.

The Pope/Magisterium didn't work. Scripture alone didn't work. So what will work?
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The instructions are there in the bible. Gods Word has the highest Authority.
 
dingoling. said:
When there are disagreements among Christians on issues concerning the Christian faith the whose the boss, i.e. who has the authority to settle the issues?

It is obvious from scripture and history that the authority is the church - the Pope, Magisterium, church councils. We see this in scripture during the first church council in Jerusalem over this issue of circumcision of the Gentile believers. As other issues came up throughout the years we see the resolved in the same manor all the way up until around the 11th century when Christians could not reach an agreement on certain issues. The eastern, mostly Greek speaking Christians didn't accept the authority of the Pope.... So now how are the issues settled - division. Fast forward a few centuries and we have the Christians again not reaching agreement on certain issues and again we have divisions. Fast forward today and what to we have - divisions galore. Catholics not agreeing with the Pope/Magisterium, Orthodox not agreeing with each other and not agreeing with the Catholic church and nCCs not agreeing with Catholics, Orthodox and other nCCs. The only thing that we seem to be "one" about is our disagreements.

Jesus wanted us to be one, "As you, Father, are in me and I am in you, may they also be in us, so that the world may believe that you have sent me."

The world is laughing at as because we are so divided. We are definitely not conveying to an unbelieving world that God sent Jesus.

The Pope/Magisterium didn't work. Scripture alone didn't work. So what will work?
Click to expand...
While I applaud the sentiment, Dingoling, this has been tried before on this site many times by Catholics. Do not expect any meaningful or intelligent interaction with the points.

Those Protestants who do attempt to answer the question will just say "The Scriptures settle the dispute" and then act as if that constitutes an answer. As if you can put the Scriptures on the witness stand and ask it questions. It just doesn't seem to occur to these people that it does not work that way.

For whatever reason, for reasons I have tried but cannot figure out, Protestants have a blind spot to the divisions that exist between them on important matters of doctrine. They seem to think all the divisions are irrelevant, and they do not see the connection between Sola Scriptura and those divisions.
 
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SPOKENWORD said:
The instructions are there in the bible. Gods Word has the highest Authority.
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Christians are called to handle disputes in love, with a goal of restoration. Conflict should be handled according to the steps listed in Matthew 18. This style of conflict resolution is based on a desire for holy living and love for the person who has committed wrong.
 
romishpopishorganist said:
While I applaud the sentiment, Dingoling, this has been tried before on this site many times by Catholics. Do not expect any meaningful or intelligent interaction with the points.

Those Protestants who do attempt to answer the question will just say "The Scriptures settle the dispute" and then act as if that constitutes an answer.
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Yes, but there is hope because scripture says that all things are possible with God. It is important that we are one, so I think it behooves us to make some kind of effort in that direction. Thanks for your response.
 
SPOKENWORD said:
Christian have no problem with the understanding of that verse. Its Catholics that don,t.
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But the nCCs understanding of that verse isn't the highest authority. You said that God's word is the highest authority.

The other problem is which Christian's understanding of that verse is correct?
 
SPOKENWORD said:
The instructions are there in the bible. Gods Word has the highest Authority.
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That isn't the point. No one is asserting that God's Word ISN'T the highest authority.

The question is this:

If God's authority is manifest ONLY or SOLELY in the Scriptures, if the Church does NOT speak with God's authority in JUDGING the Scriptural evidence for or against some point in dispute, then how is such a dispute authoritatively settled in Protestantism?

Answer: It isn't. Protestants just go off and found another sect.

In Catholicism, the Church responds authoritatively to the dispute and renders a binding judgement one way or the other.
 
SPOKENWORD said:
Christians are called to handle disputes in love, with a goal of restoration. Conflict should be handled according to the steps listed in Matthew 18. This style of conflict resolution is based on a desire for holy living and love for the person who has committed wrong.
Click to expand...
So then it is your assertion that the Church has the ultimate authority when it comes to settling the dispute and that the individual Christian is bound in conscience to accept the decision of the Church?

Thus, if the Christian says "Doctrine X is not Biblical. I cannot accept it" and the Church says "Well, we have judged between the Scriptural evidence, for and against the doctrine in question and have decided that X is, in fact, Biblical." You are saying you would submit to the judgement of the Church?
 
romishpopishorganist said:
That isn't the point. No one is asserting that God's Word ISN'T the highest authority.

The question is this:

If God's authority is manifest ONLY or SOLELY in the Scriptures, if the Church does NOT speak with God's authority in JUDGING the Scriptural evidence for or against some point in dispute, then how is such a dispute authoritatively settled in Protestantism?

Answer: It isn't. Protestants just go off and found another sect.

In Catholicism, the Church responds authoritatively to the dispute and renders a binding judgement one way or the other.
Click to expand...
Yes, when the first issue came up in the church recorded for us in Acts 15, Paul and Barnabas did the Catholic thing and went to Jerusalem; they didn't stay in Antioch and open there Bibles.
 
romishpopishorganist said:
That isn't the point. No one is asserting that God's Word ISN'T the highest authority.

The question is this:

If God's authority is manifest ONLY or SOLELY in the Scriptures, if the Church does NOT speak with God's authority in JUDGING the Scriptural evidence for or against some point in dispute, then how is such a dispute authoritatively settled in Protestantism?

Answer: It isn't. Protestants just go off and found another sect.

In Catholicism, the Church responds authoritatively to the dispute and renders a binding judgement one way or the other.
Click to expand...
So you are saying that the instructions in Mathew 18 are not good enough?
 
romishpopishorganist said:
So then it is your assertion that the Church has the ultimate authority when it comes to settling the dispute and that the individual Christian is bound in conscience to accept the decision of the Church?

Thus, if the Christian says "Doctrine X is not Biblical. I cannot accept it" and the Church says "Well, we have judged between the Scriptural evidence, for and against the doctrine in question and have decided that X is, in fact, Biblical." You are saying you would submit to the judgement of the Church?
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Yes,i would submit to the judgment of my leaders in the church.
 
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