Whose values?

Furion said:
Perhaps you are angry. I never want to talk about evolution, the internet evolutionists are pathetic trolls.

Evolution has no morality, provides no morality and states nothing about morality.

So when you bring up morality, it has no basis in evolution. It's good to get that settled.

Do you offer your personal morality as the value to follow? You know that's silly.

Secular Humanist morality?
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Since rudimentary moral values can be reasonably extrapolated from the behaviour of the species closely related to humans, and given that morality has a survival value for cooperative social species, your assertion that evolution is incapable of producing morality is unproven to say the least.

I offer my personal morality as the value for me to follow. I am as entitled to seek to persuade others to agree with me on specific moral issues, as anyone else.

Silly is taking second hand, out dated and old fashioned morality because you have neither the guts not personal moral fibre to come to your own conclusions.
 
BMS said:
like what has just been said. Thanks for that
either way its male and female.
Are you suggesting it isnt?
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Homosexual behaviour is not male and female. It's male or female. There's a clue in the definition. Are you suggesting it isn't?
 
vibise said:
It is clear that many mammalian species engage in homosexual behavior. Do you think they are making a moral choice, or do you think they are simply responding to biological urges?
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Uncontrollable urges come in many forms, yes.

For instance some have uncontrollable urges to steal, sometimes they are wealthy with no need to steal.

Everyone must learn to control their urges.
 
Temujin said:
Since rudimentary moral values can be reasonably extrapolated from the behaviour of the species closely related to humans, and given that morality has a survival value for cooperative social species, your assertion that evolution is incapable of producing morality is unproven to say the least.
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And yet you can only assert it with your opinion with no actual evidence.

And you don't appear to realize it is only your extrapolated opinion.

That's your problem, you have no authoritative source for your opinion, just your opinion.
Temujin said:
I offer my personal morality as the value for me to follow. I am as entitled to seek to persuade others to agree with me on specific moral issues, as anyone else.

Silly is taking second hand, out dated and old fashioned morality because you have neither the guts not personal moral fibre to come to your own conclusions.
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Since you can't even show your morality derived from yourself, like you claim, it is better to assume you've borrowed your morality from other sources.

In your case, clearly you've borrowed heavily from Christianity, and even try to imply you are more moral than a Christian!

It's weird but it's common. Many atheists try the same arguments, thinking their internal moral outraging is all their own idea.
 
Furion said:
And yet you can only assert it with your opinion with no actual evidence.

And you don't appear to realize it is only your extrapolated opinion.

That's your problem, you have no authoritative source for your opinion, just your opinion.

Since you can't even show your morality derived from yourself, like you claim, it is better to assume you've borrowed your morality from other sources.

In your case, clearly you've borrowed heavily from Christianity, and even try to imply you are more moral than a Christian!

It's weird but it's common. Many atheists try the same arguments, thinking their internal moral outraging is all their own idea.
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www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Animal Morality: What It Means and Why It Matters

It has been argued that some animals are moral subjects, that is, beings who are capable of behaving on the basis of moral motivations (Rowlands , , ). In this paper, we do not challenge this claim. Instead, we presuppose its plausibility in order to ...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Finding Morality in Animals

Two new books explore research on animals to better understand the roots of human morality and challenge human specialness.
greatergood.berkeley.edu greatergood.berkeley.edu
Not quite my extrapolated opinion. Evidence abounds.

No, I have gained some moral values from my environment and experience, which is very similar to other people who live in the West. Christianity borrows from human morality. You just rename what we already have, and claim that it comes from your God. Oh and you have no evidence for this, other than your extrapolated opinion.
 
Temujin said:
Crazy, utterly bonkers. In what way does having two sexes mean that having sex with the same person is wrong?
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Since legs are "for" locomotion, it must be a perversion to play football.

Right?

They may be using perversion the way we would use deviation, in which case, barring the negative connotation of the former word, I would agree - homosexuality is, statistically speaking, a deviation.

What matters is whether or not they can demonstrate that it is immoral.
No sign of that yet.
 
Eightcrackers said:
Since legs are "for" locomotion, it must be a perversion to play football.

Right?
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Worse. If you are disabled and use your feet to paint with, you are perverted. The demonisation of disabled people for not using their bodies correctly, is one of the sickest ideas found here.
 
Furion said:
Perhaps you are angry. I never want to talk about evolution, the internet evolutionists are pathetic trolls.

Evolution has no morality, provides no morality and states nothing about morality.

So when you bring up morality, it has no basis in evolution. It's good to get that settled.

Do you offer your personal morality as the value to follow? You know that's silly.

Secular Humanist morality?
Click to expand...
Evolution is a fact.

It makes perfect sense that altruistic behavior and kindness would help group cohesion and make someone a more desirable mate. But you that is still speculation.
 
Furion said:
Uncontrollable urges come in many forms, yes.

For instance some have uncontrollable urges to steal, sometimes they are wealthy with no need to steal.

Everyone must learn to control their urges.
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funny
I don’t have homosexual urges
 
Backup said:
Evolution is a fact.
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Common descent is not fact so the statement evolution is fact is a straight up lie.
Backup said:
It makes perfect sense that altruistic behavior and kindness would help group cohesion and make someone a more desirable mate. But you that is still speculation.
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That is all optional and can change to race murder under Darwinism who predicted race murder as essential component
 
Temujin said:
Not quite my extrapolated opinion. Evidence abounds.
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Do you read your own links?

" In this paper, we do not challenge this claim. Instead, we presuppose its plausibility in order to explore what ethical consequences follow from it."

So your paper starts with a presupposition and muses a few hypothesis. That's just swell.
Temujin said:
No, I have gained some moral values from my environment and experience, which is very similar to other people who live in the West. Christianity borrows from human morality. You just rename what we already have, and claim that it comes from your God. Oh and you have no evidence for this, other than your extrapolated opinion.
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As I said earlier, internet evolutionists are just not up to the task. They blow a lot of hot air though.
 
Furion said:
Do you read your own links?

" In this paper, we do not challenge this claim. Instead, we presuppose its plausibility in order to explore what ethical consequences follow from it."

So your paper starts with a presupposition and muses a few hypothesis. That's just swell.

As I said earlier, internet evolutionists are just not up to the task. They blow a lot of hot air though.
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No. The paper accepts the findings of research, and muses on what it means. Read for comprehension. And of course, there's the other link you don't mention...

And then all the hundred of links backing your position, which never seem to materialise. You are too busy bloviating about other people's position to back up your own.
 
Temujin said:
No. The paper accepts the findings of research, and muses on what it means. Read for comprehension. And of course, there's the other link you don't mention...
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Nah, as soon as I see your article is merely speculation, it gets skeptically dismissed.

It's the way of the skeptic. Nothing easier than being a skeptic
 
Temujin said:
Since rudimentary moral values can be reasonably extrapolated from the behaviour of the species closely related to humans, and given that morality has a survival value for cooperative social species, your assertion that evolution is incapable of producing morality is unproven to say the least.
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Then state some evolutionary morals that apply to everybody at all times. If the moral component is cooperation then Darwin wrote civilized races would exterminate and replace savage races which is genocide, not cooperation. Any form of morality produced is optional and conditional.
Temujin said:
I offer my personal morality as the value for me to follow.
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Which means nothing objectively
Temujin said:
Silly is taking second hand, out dated and old fashioned morality because you have neither the guts not personal moral fibre to come to your own conclusions.
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That your morality? It sucks. Worry about yourself
 
Furion said:
Nah, as soon as I see your article is merely speculation, it gets skeptically dismissed.

It's the way of the skeptic. Nothing easier than being a skeptic
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So you are in fact speculating on what is in the link , while at the same time criticising it for speculating. Shock horror! Christian displays hypocrisy!.
 
Temujin said:
So you are in fact speculating on what is in the link , while at the same time criticising it for speculating. Shock horror! Christian displays hypocrisy!.
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No. Your article actually states it's presupposition.

You then whine about it. Yawn.
 
Temujin said:
Since rudimentary moral values can be reasonably extrapolated from the behaviour of the species closely related to humans, and given that morality has a survival value for cooperative social species, your assertion that evolution is incapable of producing morality is unproven to say the least.

I offer my personal morality as the value for me to follow. I am as entitled to seek to persuade others to agree with me on specific moral issues, as anyone else.

Silly is taking second hand, out dated and old fashioned morality because you have neither the guts not personal moral fibre to come to your own conclusions.
Click to expand...
I like many here, and in society disagree with your opinion. Lets debate it
 
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