Why all the exclusion clauses?

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dberrie2020

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MMDAN said:
In Acts 2:38, "for the remission of sins" does not refer back to both clauses, "you all repent" and "each one of you be baptized," but refers only to the first.

Where I come from--"and" is a conjunction connecting two or more things--not one, as you suggest:

Acts 2:38---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.
 
Where I come from--"and" is a conjunction connecting two or more things--not one, as you suggest:

Acts 2:38---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Yet those in Acts 10 received the Holy Spirit prior to water baptism.

BTW, when where the apostles water baptized before Pentecost?
 
Yet those in Acts 10 received the Holy Spirit prior to water baptism.

BTW, when where the apostles water baptized before Pentecost?
Nope they didn't, they received the Holy Ghost yes but not the Gift of the Holy Ghost...

4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

7 And all the men were about twelve.


"On the day of Pentecost, Peter instructed those who had previously been touched spiritually by the Holy Ghost, `Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.' (Acts 2:38.)

Acts 8 .... Then laid they their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost. Please note the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost.
Also not the Apostles held the Keys of the Kingdom (authority to act in Christ name)...
 
Nope they didn't, they received the Holy Ghost yes but not the Gift of the Holy Ghost...

Doublespeak.....receiving the Holy Spirit is a gift, PERIOD.


While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And [o]those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
4 Then said Paul, John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.

5 When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.

6 And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them; and they spake with tongues, and prophesied.

7 And all the men were about twelve.

Those in Acts 10 spoke in tongues also.....before baptism.
 
Yet those in Acts 10 received the Holy Spirit prior to water baptism.

The point wasn't when the reception of the Holy Ghost occurred--rather, that repentance and water baptism was connected to God's grace of the remission of sins, not just repentance:

Acts 2:38---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Yet-- the Holy Ghost was still connected to obedience in Acts10:

Acts 10:34-35---King James Version
34 Then Peter opened his mouth, and said, Of a truth I perceive that God is no respecter of persons:
35 But in every nation he that feareth him, and worketh righteousness, is accepted with him.

BTW, when where the apostles water baptized before Pentecost?

It seems to me that repentance and water baptism was the very beginning of the gospel:

Mark 1:1-5---King James Version
1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

Even the Apostle Jesus Christ baptized before Pentecost.
 
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Yet--it was still connected to obedience:

Not connected to water baptism.
It seems to me that repentance and water baptism was the very beginning of the gospel:

Mark 1:1-5---King James Version
1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;
2 As it is written in the prophets, Behold, I send my messenger before thy face, which shall prepare thy way before thee.
3 The voice of one crying in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of the Lord, make his paths straight.
4 John did baptize in the wilderness, and preach the baptism of repentance for the remission of sins.
5 And there went out unto him all the land of Judaea, and they of Jerusalem, and were all baptized of him in the river of Jordan, confessing their sins.

Even the Apostle Jesus Christ baptized before Pentecost.

You didn't answer my question....

BTW, when where the apostles water baptized before Pentecost?
 
Yet those in Acts 10 received the Holy Spirit prior to water baptism.
Anyone anywhere can receive a witness of the holy Spirit before baptism. That is quite common. If it were not so, how would anyone know the gospel is true before they accepted baptism, binding themselves to Christ through covenant?

Why do you all dispute the order of things as if that's the issue? There is a difference between receiving a witness of the Holy Spirit and receiving the Gift of the Holy Spirit.

Receiving a witness doesn't save anyone. Time and time again I have seen people receive a witness that something is true and yet they refuse to act on it. And they refuse over simple reasons I'm sure they're more complicated than what they say but still the excuse they use is dumb. For example one of my friends knew the church was true you could tell that he knew but he didn't want to let go of smoking cigars. I think the real problem is he didn't want to let go of his lifestyle. And if that's enough to resist the spirit and the witness of the spirit then that's the choice that people get to make no one is compelled to be saved.
 
Anyone anywhere can receive a witness of the holy Spirit before baptism. That is quite common. If it were not so, how would anyone know the gospel is true before they accepted baptism, binding themselves to Christ through covenant?

Why do you all dispute the order of things as if that's the issue? There is a difference between receiving a witness of the Holy Spirit and receiving the Gift of the Holy Spirit.

While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And [o]those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
 
BTW, when where the apostles water baptized before Pentecost?
This is an argument based on the lack of evidence. Saying that because it doesn't specifically state that they were baptized that means they weren't baptized. And that's a fallacy. We can be sure that if baptism was necessary in order to enter the kingdom of God that the apostles were baptized. I don't think it was quite as miraculous as the baptism of Jesus Christ though. And that's probably the reason why it's not recorded in the scriptures.
 
While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit fell upon all those who heard the word. 45 And astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also. 46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God.
Then Peter answered, 47 “Can anyone forbid water, that these should not be baptized who have received the Holy Spirit just as we have?”
I'm not seeing an issue..
 
Not connected to water baptism.

Where do you find that in the OP? That was not my concern, nor did I address that particular in the OP.

My concern in the OP was both repentance and water baptism being connected to God's grace of the remission of sins here:

Acts 2:38---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

You didn't answer my question....

BTW, when where the apostles water baptized before Pentecost?

John 4:1-2---King James Version
1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

Here is where the Apostle Jesus Christ was baptized:

Matthew 3:16---King James Version
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:
 
This is an argument based on the lack of evidence. Saying that because it doesn't specifically state that they were baptized that means they weren't baptized. And that's a fallacy.

So when where they?
We can be sure that if baptism was necessary in order to enter the kingdom of God that the apostles were baptized.

It isn't.
I don't think it was quite as miraculous as the baptism of Jesus Christ though. And that's probably the reason why it's not recorded in the scriptures.

So they'll record the baptism of others besides Christ.... but not the apostles...got it.
 
I'm not seeing an issue..
brotherofJared said:
Anyone anywhere can receive a witness of the holy Spirit before baptism. That is quite common. If it were not so, how would anyone know the gospel is true before they accepted baptism, binding themselves to Christ through covenant?

Why do you all dispute the order of things as if that's the issue? There is a difference between receiving a witness of the Holy Spirit and receiving the Gift of the Holy Spirit.


They received the GIFT of the Holy Spirit just as Peter had.
 
Where do you find that in the OP? That was not my concern, nor did I address that particular in the OP.

My concern in the OP was both repentance and water baptism being connected to God's grace of the remission of sins here:

Acts 2:38---King James Version
38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.



John 4:1-2---King James Version
1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

And I said those in Acts 10 received the gift of the Holy Spirit prior to baptism....you posting scripture verses will not negate this fact.
Here is where the Apostle Jesus Christ was baptized:

Matthew 3:16---King James Version
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

I didn't' ask where Christ was baptized.....I asked where it shows the apostles being baptized.
 
This is an argument based on the lack of evidence. Saying that because it doesn't specifically state that they were baptized that means they weren't baptized. And that's a fallacy. We can be sure that if baptism was necessary in order to enter the kingdom of God that the apostles were baptized. I don't think it was quite as miraculous as the baptism of Jesus Christ though. And that's probably the reason why it's not recorded in the scriptures.

That argument is just before being engaged--and I think the Biblical text holds information that we haven't ever engaged before. Hold your taters.
 
And I said those in Acts 10 received the gift of the Holy Spirit prior to baptism....you posting scripture verses will not negate this fact.

Again--I'm not seeing how that connects to my concern in the OP.

I didn't' ask where Christ was baptized....

You asked where the apostles were baptized. I showed you where the 12 apostles were baptized--and where the Apostle Jesus Christ was baptized.

.I asked where it shows the apostles being baptized.

And I showed you where both the Apostle Jesus Christ was baptized--and the twelve:

Matthew 3:16---King James Version
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

John 4:1-2---King James Version
1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)
 
Again--I'm not seeing how that connects to my concern in the OP.

Maybe go re read acts 2:38
You asked where the apostles were baptized. I showed you where the 12 apostles were baptized--and where the Apostle Jesus Christ was baptized.

No, you didn't. John 4 doesn't say a word about the apostles being baptized.
And I showed you where both the Apostle Jesus Christ was baptized--and the twelve:

Matthew 3:16---King James Version
16 And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him:

Not a word about the baptism of the apostles.
John 4:1-2---King James Version
1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

This is saying the apostles baptized, not that they were baptized.....and BTW, Christian baptism had yet to be instituted.
 
They received the GIFT of the Holy Spirit just as Peter had.
That's all u have? The Holy Spirit fell upon them. So, you think the gift of the holy ghost is speaking in tongues, the easiest gift to fake. We see these fakes all the time but that is not the "Gift" of the holy ghost. That gift results in the change in one's life. Speaking in tongues is but for a moment, it comes and goes. It is not something we have with us all the time.

In my theology, there is a difference between having a witness or a one-off gift in the moment and receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost. A witness comes before conversion and is usually the cause for conversion. The gift comes after conversion..
 
dberrie2020 said: John 4:1-2---King James Version
1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

This is saying the apostles baptized, not that they were baptized....

I disagree. Here is the evidence:

The verse in John 4:2--- (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)--could have two possible meanings:

1) That Jesus did not do any baptisms, rather--- the disciples did the baptizing.
2) That Jesus did not baptize anyone other than His disciples.

Since the scriptures testify it was Jesus baptizing here:

John 3:22---King James Version
22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

John 3:26---King James Version

26 And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with thee beyond Jordan, to whom thou barest witness, behold, the same baptizeth, and all men come to him.

Those scriptures testify Jesus did baptize, and was baptizing.

That eliminates #1 choice above as being possible.

So--let's examine the scripture again---who was Jesus with, when the scriptures claimed Jesus was baptizing?

John 3:22---King James Version
22 After these things came Jesus and his disciples into the land of Judaea; and there he tarried with them, and baptized.

The scripture then comes into view once again---(Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)--most likely having the meaning Jesus did not baptize anyone, with the exception of His disciples.(apostles)

The accusation was that Jesus baptized more than John:

John 4:1-2---King James Version
1 When therefore the Lord knew how the Pharisees had heard that Jesus made and baptized more disciples than John,
2 (Though Jesus himself baptized not, but his disciples,)

The parenthesis clarifies that just wasn't true--Jesus only baptized His disciples(apostles)--whom He was with while He was baptizing.

The argument posed in John4:1 was not whether Jesus baptized or not--but rather--the number of people He baptized.
 
That's all u have?

All I have? It's called Scripture.....you're pretty dismissive of Gods word.
The Holy Spirit fell upon them. So, you think the gift of the holy ghost is speaking in tongues, the easiest gift to fake.

Nope, never even implied that.
In my theology, there is a difference between having a witness or a one-off gift in the moment and receiving the Gift of the Holy Ghost. A witness comes before conversion and is usually the cause for conversion. The gift comes after conversion..

They received THE GIFT of the Holy Spirit just as Peter had.....before baptism.
 
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